My 60 year old mother has been catfished out of 10,000 euro

irishguy0000

Me and my siblings are in shock, we just found out. What do we do? Go to the Garda?

So, my mother met a man, who says he is from America, online before Christmas last. She started chatting with him over the phone fairly quickly. Me and my siblings immediately had our doubts as he said he was going to fly to see her straightaway (he didnt turn up), he said he was in Paris on holiday and sent pictures of the wrong Eiffel tower (one from a hotel in Las Vegas), and he was just so full on so quickly. We forced her to skype him and he did arrange one that was glitchy and it didnt last long. It didnt have sound and was just plain weird. So then we had the big talk with her. We told her about catfishing, how it works, what to be careful of, and she listened but maintain that a defensive attitude whenever we brought the subject up. We warned her to never send money to anyone and she said she would never be that stupid and how dare we be so condescending.

Last month, we happened to see a text come in on her phone from the same name as Christmas time. She had not mentioned him since then. We had not noticed and conversations, texts or emails. Nothing.

So, we we spoke to her again, and she flipped. She admitted it was the same guy as Christmas time and that they were just good friends, who talk on the phone. She was very defensive and angry at us. Then we had the big talk with her again, warned her about sending money, told her of the warning signs of catfishing, and she didnt say much back.

Yesterday she confided in my sister that she thinks she has been catfished. She admitted sending this guy up over 10,000 euro over time by western union. She says she confronted him over the phone two weeks ago about being a catfish and he has been in and out of touch since. She has sent the money to various western union locations around the world.

Is there some way of sorting this out? We are in shock and unsure what to do.......
I will go to our local Garda station in the morning... and will update.

Tipperary Fairy

If she willingly gave him the money I don't see what crime was committed, unless it was fraudulently gotten, and even then, you'd have to prove that.
What did she give him the money for?

MouseTail

I think you as a family did all you could. This will be very humiliating for her. If she agrees, I think you are absolutely right to report it, although I doubt very much she will see any money back.

njs030

I'm not sure what the point of reporting it is really, unless it was criminal it has nothing to do with the guards. They won't be able to get it back.

It's an expensive lesson and an embarrassing one but that's really all it is.

Turtle_

notjustsweet wrote: »

I'm not sure what the point of reporting it is really, unless it was criminal it has nothing to do with the guards. They won't be able to get it back.

It's an expensive lesson and an embarrassing one but that's really all it is.

I'd report it anyway, you won't see anything back and tbf, your mother walked into this being stubborn and intentionally blinkered, but it never hurts to let law enforcement know that a person is trying to con people.

You know there's a saying, none are so blind as those who do not wish to see. Well, now she sees but it's important not to turn her off technology completely or she'll be left behind by society. You and your siblings need to sit down with your mum and address net safety - phishing, viruses, spamware, catfishing, calls from India about "problems with Windows" - the lot. Show her the difference between say, a real email from her bank and a phishing one. And set her up on a proper dating/social website aimed at her age group. Show her what to trust and how to spot red flags.

If she's not great in general with technology, a local education centre might run an appropriate computer course for her.

Shint0

It's still fraud, I think.

In the UK, at least, they have an agency to report online fraud including scams involving relationships. Here's a link.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-romance-scams

Not sure what the situation is here regarding relationships but I know somebody who was defrauded through adverts.ie. Adverts.ie didn't seem to take it too seriously and still allowed the individual to trade without suspending their account. Some people said it was pointless reporting it to the Guards but I told them to persist. The Guards did eventually track down the guy. He was given a chance to return the money or face criminal prosecution. Most of the money was returned and it was quite a small sum compared to the amount involved with the OP's mother.

njs030

Shint0 wrote: »

It's still fraud, I think.

In the UK, at least, they have an agency to report online fraud including scams involving relationships. Here's a link.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-romance-scams

Not sure what the situation is here regarding relationships but I know somebody who was defrauded through adverts.ie. Adverts.ie didn't seem to take it too seriously and still allowed the individual to trade without suspending their account. Some people said it was pointless reporting it to the Guards but I told them to persist. The Guards did eventually track down the guy. He was given a chance to return the money or face criminal prosecution. Most of the money was returned and it was quite a small sum compared to the amount involved with the OP's mother.

The person lives abroad so it's a different scenario. Also different that adverts is a selling site- presumable a service or good was offered in exchange for money that wasn't received that is fraud.
If ops mother has given money just out of the goodness of her heart that's not fraud.

Kimbot

The guards will just tell you that it's a civil matter and has nothing to do with them tbh.

Shint0

notjustsweet wrote: »

If ops mother has given money just out of the goodness of her heart that's not fraud.

I still wouldn't be entirely sure that it's not fraud going by the link I posted if the relationship developed along the same lines as outlined in that website. It's still worth reporting, in my opinion.

osarusan

At least attempt to report it and find out what the authorities say.

njs030

Shint0 wrote: »

I still wouldn't be entirely sure that it's not fraud going by the link I posted if the relationship developed along the same lines as outlined in that website. It's still worth reporting, in my opinion.

There's no harm in trying, I was mainly saying it so they op doesn't expect much. The other person lives abroad so there isn't anything the guards could do anyway.

woodchuck

There's no harm talking to the guards. There may well be nothing they can do, but you won't know for sure until you try.

Shint0

notjustsweet wrote: »

There's no harm in trying, I was mainly saying it so they op doesn't expect much. The other person lives abroad so there isn't anything the guards could do anyway.

Yes, I absolutely understand that about not wanting to get the OP's hopes up but money obtained by deception is still fraud whether that's through the false promise of goods, services or someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves in order to scam someone out of money.

As there seems to be organised crime on an international level involved in some of these operations then it would require a collaborative effort by international police agencies to tackle it so the Guards must be made aware if anyone here has been targeted and fallen victim to such a scam which is why I feel the OP must report it and not just let it go. I don't think it's a simple matter of saying the OP's mother just gave it out of kindness if there was any form of deception involved.

irishguy0000

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

If she willingly gave him the money I don't see what crime was committed, unless it was fraudulently gotten, and even then, you'd have to prove that.
What did she give him the money for?

She said the money she sent was to invest in the setting up of a manufacturing company that he described. He said that she would get a lot of money back. I feel like she may have also sent him money for other reasons too. I am not sure she is telling us the whole truth yet.

irishguy0000

Turtle_ wrote: »

I'd report it anyway, you won't see anything back and tbf, your mother walked into this being stubborn and intentionally blinkered, but it never hurts to let law enforcement know that a person is trying to con people.

You know there's a saying, none are so blind as those who do not wish to see. Well, now she sees but it's important not to turn her off technology completely or she'll be left behind by society. You and your siblings need to sit down with your mum and address net safety - phishing, viruses, spamware, catfishing, calls from India about "problems with Windows" - the lot. Show her the difference between say, a real email from her bank and a phishing one. And set her up on a proper dating/social website aimed at her age group. Show her what to trust and how to spot red flags.

If she's not great in general with technology, a local education centre might run an appropriate computer course for her.

Thank you. We are going to have big talk with her. She is away with my sibling at the moment and will be back late tomorrow. Can of worms opening very soon!

njs030

irishguy0000 wrote: »

She said the money she sent was to invest in the setting up of a manufacturing company that he described. He said that she would get a lot of money back. I feel like she may have also sent him money for other reasons too. I am not sure she is telling us the whole truth yet.

OK well then that is fraud. However it is international so the chance of getting it back is pretty minimal. She needs to report it herself it's not your crime though you could go with her. Does she have any paperwork?

Poor thing, I hope she's OK.

irishguy0000

notjustsweet wrote: »

OK well then that is fraud. However it is international so the chance of getting it back is pretty minimal. She needs to report it herself it's not your crime though you could go with her. Does she have any paperwork?

Poor thing, I hope she's OK.

She has a lot of romantic emails, but most of the organising of the financial transactions was done over the phone. There are few forms that he sent her too though. No instructions with them or anything. I will be going in to the Garda station with her.

She is upset but also still kind of believing in it. She said she spoke to him every day on the phone.

She has also told us that she has loaned money from other friends and family.

irishguy0000

Shint0 wrote: »

Yes, I absolutely understand that about not wanting to get the OP's hopes up but money obtained by deception is still fraud whether that's through the false promise of goods, services or someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves in order to scam someone out of money.

As there seems to be organised crime on an international level involved in some of these operations then it would require a collaborative effort by international police agencies to tackle it so the Guards must be made aware if anyone here has been targeted and fallen victim to such a scam which is why I feel the OP must report it and not just let it go. I don't think it's a simple matter of saying the OP's mother just gave it out of kindness if there was any form of deception involved.

Thank you for your advice. I have been to the Garda station this morning and they said she needs to come in herself. I will accompany her. We need to bring all details of emails etc.

They said there is no unit dedicated to cyber crime as far as he knew. After we report it it might be forwarded onto Fraud at Harcourt St. He said the main thing is finding out who this guy is, if possible.

The Garda wasn't that clear really. Tried to push for an idea of what might happen and he just said we need to bring Mum in. He said that this does happen quite frequently though.

njs030

irishguy0000 wrote: »

She has a lot of romantic emails, but most of the organising of the financial transactions was done over the phone. There are few forms that he sent her too though. No instructions with them or anything. I will be going in to the Garda station with her.

She is upset but also still kind of believing in it. She said she spoke to him every day on the phone.

She has also told us that she has loaned money from other friends and family.

Oh how awful. Is he still talking to her? If so make sure she doesn't let him know anything is up, the guards might be able to do something with his contact information.

He sounds like he's done it before and knew not to write anything down, probably been doing it for years.

It's not catfishing op it's fraud plain and simple.

Bunny Colvin

You done your best but there's nothing more you can do, involving the guards will do nothing. Your mam was very naive to say the least, hopefully she's learned a lesson, a very expensive one but that's all you can take from it.

gline

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

You done your best but there's nothing more you can do, involving the guards will do nothing. Your mam was very naive to say the least, hopefully she's learned a lesson, a very expensive one but that's all you can take from it.

I wouldnt say naive as the op's family sat down with her before this happened and warned her about exactly what just happened, pigheaded maybe? Did she not believe her family that were warning her?

Theres not much anyone can do, its just a very expensive lesson she's learned and she will probably not make that mistake again.

Bunny Colvin

gline wrote: »

I wouldnt say naive as the op's family sat down with her before this happened and warned her about exactly what just happened, pigheaded maybe? Did she not believe her family that were warning her?

Theres not much anyone can do, its just a very expensive lesson she's learned and she will probably not make that mistake again.

He's obviously strung her along and gave her a sob story as to why he needed the money - she was naive to believe him - despite her family warning her.

irishguy0000

notjustsweet wrote: »

Oh how awful. Is he still talking to her? If so make sure she doesn't let him know anything is up, the guards might be able to do something with his contact information.

He sounds like he's done it before and knew not to write anything down, probably been doing it for years.

It's not catfishing op it's fraud plain and simple.

Yes, he is tentatively emailing her still. He has cooled off a lot since she started doubting and questioning him over the past two weeks.

We are trying to keep him stringing along but I feel it's emotionally difficult for her.

Shint0

irishguy0000 wrote: »

He said that this does happen quite frequently though.

If it's happening here quite frequently then they probably should consider setting up a cyber crime unit similar to that one in the UK which is why it's important that your mother reports it so they have accurate crime figures.

I have a lot of sympathy for her. It probably means all her own savings are gone if she had to borrow from friends and family members. She musn't have told them the real reason behind it as I'm sure someone would have questioned her on it.

She seems to have been the victim of crime and might need support around that. As it is she seems to be in denial by continuing to maintain contact with him. The Guards can give her information on victim crime support if you think that would be useful.

irishguy0000

Shint0 wrote: »

If it's happening here quite frequently then they probably should consider setting up a cyber crime unit similar to that one in the UK which is why it's important that your mother reports it so they have accurate crime figures.

I have a lot of sympathy for her. It probably means all her own savings are gone if she had to borrow from friends and family members. She musn't have told them the real reason behind it as I'm sure someone would have questioned her on it.

She seems to have been the victim of crime and might need support around that. As it is she seems to be in denial by continuing to maintain contact with him. The Guards can give her information on victim crime support if you think that would be useful.

Yes, she has been lying to all of us. It's really upsetting to be honest. She has been mentioning being tight for money on and off for the past few months. But when we pressed her on it, she mentioned car repairs, house/car insurance costs, etc. Me and my siblings have bailed her out financially a few times over the past few months. Not huge amounts, but now it all makes more sense.

Not only has she lost all her savings. She is also in debt to other family and friends.

I will ask the guards about Victim Support. Thank you.

DeltaWhite

OP I've no advice to offer but just to say that I sincerely hope this person is caught, and really hope your Mam can get some if not all of the money back. Awful thing to happen to anyone, she obviously got caught up in something bad and probably was in denial about it all. Feel sorry for you all and wish for a good outcome.

Shint0

irishguy0000 wrote: »

Yes, she has been lying to all of us. It's really upsetting to be honest.

Sometimes people can lie when they find themselves in a situation like that and it's not out of malice. It sounds like she got caught up in a situation where she has been manipulated and it has all the hallmarks of a scam with money transfers to different Western Unions.

As you say you might not even know the full details or how much personal or intimate details she shared which might have been totally out of character for her. So the lies might have been her own coping mechanism to deal with any shame or embarrassment that she might have been duped and continued to want to believe that the relationship was genuine while withholding information from those close to her.

This type of reaction can be quite common among victims of any type of crime but particularly where deception is involved so I would try not to judge her too harshly for that.

intheclouds

Hire an IT specialist private investigator to find out who he is and report this guy in the country where he is committing the crimes from.

frostyjacks

I wouldn't waste the Gardaí's time with this; there's plenty more serious crime that they have to concentrate on. You could spend years tracking this guy down, and with no hope of recovering the money at the end of it. Just chalk it up to experience; she won't be so gullible in future.

Witchie

Really sorry to hear this has happened to your mum. There are websites that offer support to victims of this kinda thing and give advice on how to handle them so do a bit of googling. It will also help for your mum to see that she is far from the only person to have fallen for this coz she must be feeling very stupid about now.

Has she got photos of him? Do reverse searches of them and see if you can find any info. If he is using fake pictures get in touch with the person who really owns them and let them know they are being used like this. Also if she still has the names used for the western union drops, see what info they can give you. You could also google his phone number and skype number. There may be other victims out there that have managed to get money back or know where he is and they may be of help to you.

But mostly, please go easy on her. She has obviously been through a terrible time and while it may be nearly impossible, please try not to be all "I told you so".

Turtle_

frostyjacks wrote: »

I wouldn't waste the Gardaí's time with this; there's plenty more serious crime that they have to concentrate on. You could spend years tracking this guy down, and with no hope of recovering the money at the end of it. Just chalk it up to experience; she won't be so gullible in future.

Getting conned out of ten grand isn't serious?

intheclouds

frostyjacks wrote: »

I wouldn't waste the Gardaí's time with this; there's plenty more serious crime that they have to concentrate on. You could spend years tracking this guy down, and with no hope of recovering the money at the end of it. Just chalk it up to experience; she won't be so gullible in future.

I can't agree with this at all.

The very opposite is true, it is vitally important that it is reported. The more people who report this kind of crime, the more likely that we get a dedicated Garda task force for it and the more likely that awareness campaigns are run etc...

Brushing it under the carpet helps no one.

Esel

Modern technology makes it easy for vulnerable people to be scammed.

Shint0

intheclouds wrote: »

I can't agree with this at all.

The very opposite is true, it is vitally important that it is reported. The more people who report this kind of crime, the more likely that we get a dedicated Garda task force for it and the more likely that awareness campaigns are run etc...

Brushing it under the carpet helps no one.

Plus by reporting it to the Guards it can help the OP's mother try to accept that she was a victim and to process what happened to her. There are lots of complex emotions involved in this type of scenario as well as guilt from having dragged other close family members and friends into it.

frostyjacks

intheclouds wrote: »

I can't agree with this at all.

The very opposite is true, it is vitally important that it is reported. The more people who report this kind of crime, the more likely that we get a dedicated Garda task force for it and the more likely that awareness campaigns are run etc...

Brushing it under the carpet helps no one.

The Gardai are underfunded and under resourced as it is. There has to be a crime committed in the first place for them to investigate. In a lot of these cases it's just people gifting money to strangers online. You may as well ask the Gardai to stop people from gambling or drinking.

Shint0

frostyjacks wrote: »

The Gardai are underfunded and under resourced as it is. There has to be a crime committed in the first place for them to investigate. In a lot of these cases it's just people gifting money to strangers online. You may as well ask the Gardai to stop people from gambling or drinking.

Who says it's not a crime? That's just your interpretation. When the OP went to the Garda Station he was told to bring his mother and all documentation involved which would then be forwarded to Harcourt Street for investigation.

m'lady

frostyjacks wrote: »

I wouldn't waste the Gardaí's time with this; there's plenty more serious crime that they have to concentrate on. You could spend years tracking this guy down, and with no hope of recovering the money at the end of it. Just chalk it up to experience; she won't be so gullible in future.

Comments like this make victims (yes, victims) of crimes like this stay quiet in fear of being not taken seriously. The woman is embarrassed enough, but at least if these situations are reported there is an accurate record of cyber crimes.

njs030

Shint0 wrote: »

Who says it's not a crime? That's just your interpretation. When the OP went to the Garda Station he was told to bring his mother and all documentation involved which would then be forwarded to Harcourt Street for investigation.

I think they said it was a possibility not a definite. Op said they didn't give any details of what would happen.

Shint0

notjustsweet wrote: »

I think they said it was a possibility not a definite. Op said they didn't give any details of what would happen.

The OP wasn't laughed out of it, all the same and just told to go home and forget about which is what some posters here are telling him to do which is wrong, in my opinion.

Taltos

Mod Note
frostyjacks - don't post in this thread again. As it is you are staring down the barrel of a two month ban.
The OP has come here for advice in a case of someone scamming their mother, or obtaining money by fraud/deceit. They are not coming here for judgement or victim blaming and this forum has NO tolerance for posters that are intent on posting in the manner you have done.
Should we see any more posts of this nature from you, you'll receive a lengthy vacation from this forum

njs030

Shint0 wrote: »

The OP wasn't laughed out of it, all the same and just told to go home and forget about which is what some posters here are telling him to do which is wrong, in my opinion.

Totally agree, at the beginning of the thread I was one who said to leave it but since op added new information that shows it was indeed fraud I would think its very important they report it for the mothers mental well-being as much as anything else.
It's very unlikely any money will be returned but at least she might get some dignity back and feel that she had done something to regain control and see that it has happened to many other people. It must be a horrible feeling to have been duped by someone that seemed to care for you, I hope you and your siblings are handling it with love and care op not with tough words.

retro:electro

If it's not brought to the attention of the Gardai then how are they to know such incidents exist? Report it.

ddbug

Hi OP,

I really empathize with your Mother. Please reassure her she has nothing to be embarrassed about and that she is a victim. These con artists gain the confidence of their victims and then prey on their emotions.

A similar scam (called the grandfather scam) happened to my in laws in the States and they sent $1000 through Western Union. My husband did report it to authorities in the States but my father in law wasn't willing to take it any further due to ill health. My father in law was a highly intelligent man and a retired Officer in the United States Air Force so it can happen to anyone.

Please report it. I know your mother won't get her money back but it may prevent further victims. The authorities in the States were very helpful and willing to investigate it and I'm sure the Gardai would too.

All the best to you and your Mother, OP.

ManOfMystery

If you want this guy to be caught, then you need to appeal to his sense of greed. Don't let her cut off contact with him, he'll disappear and that will be it for good. Guards and local police here have little interest in chasing people like this. I'd be trying to maintain a line of communication with him and subtly easing into the conversation that a possible large inheritance is looming, this will peak his interest and he may try asking for more money with a further sob story. Pretend to be cautiously open to the idea of that but insist that a bank account be used for the transfer rather than western union, once he forwards the details - which he will likely do as greed always beats these people - then you have something solid that authorities can trace. Patience and cunning will work here, tears and cutting him off won't. The 10k may never reappear, but it would be nice to know he was dealt with and not fleecing other similar women out there too.

mkhall

Absolutely report this! The other posters have mentioned you probably won't get the money back but you could prevent this from happening to someone else. This happens a lot more than people may think and it sounds like an organised crime ring, esp given the fact that she has sent money to multiple countries. Sounds like there are multiple people involved, unless this guy jets around the world collecting money which is probably unlikely! Western Union is pretty heavy on fraud these days and I would think that in all countries (I know for a fact in the US and Ireland) would require at least a formal ID and in most cases a passport. There is a form you need to fill out to send and receive funds, so exact name and location needs to be in line with what the sender fills out on the form. I would go and report this to the relevant authority in each country she sent this to. Western union should have their own authority looking after this in each country it operates in to be financially compliant. Sorry if this sounds confusing! Someone must have a fake ID and/or passport with the guy in questions name and it's being used in multiple locations. The next time this or (these guys) try this on some other innocent and trusting woman their name could come up on the system with a red flag. I've seen a few episodes on tele on this and she is probably traumatised. She seems to have held a very high level of trust with this man, if I were in this situation it would affect my self esteem and I would question my judgment. She may also take some consolation in reading others' stories, it can happen to anyone. I think from an episode from Dr Phil it gave some websites where you can unofficially report this. If it doesn't help, it certainly doesn't hurt either!

jluv

Hi OP..first off I feel for your mother and the rest of your family..she was duped and may be feeling defensive as she seems like she really wanted to believe this guy. As others have pointed out it may be good to sensitivly introduce her to sites where she can read stories of others who have found themselves in the same situation. Somehow I feel she still may be hanging onto the notion that this guy was legit and it may help ease her embaressment when she realises the truth. Feel for her...
Whatever about the guards, I agree with the other poster in regards to Western Union. This is where all the transactions happened and they will certainly act on the fraud aspect of it (not to get your mams money back) but certainly to stop this person from doing it to others. I wouldn't be one to let it go. I'd be like a dog with a bone. I also would be inclined to string him on a bit to hopefully get a little more info. I know they are not using their own identity but if someone were to arrive at a Western Union point to pick up a new transfer of money I would sure as hell have someone there to meet them..
I know your mam was silly but my heart does go out to her..

daisybelle2008

OP there has been a lot of this on Dr Phil, some ladies even duped out of millions. A lot of clips on youtube you could play...

It's a shame, these scammers prey on the lonely and vulnerable. It is very common.

Here is a clip from one, Dr Phil mentions Western Union and Money Gram cut the lady off..??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8vm01nzMw

antix80

Hi op
Yes, it's fraud
No, the gardai will not be able to do anything. It's outside their jurisdiction, the money's gone, and the perpetrator is most likely anonymous, and it could be argued she gifted him the money. There is little point going to the garda station as it could cause undue stress and embarrassment.
Treat your mother with compassion. I'm sure she is humilated at what happened.
Also, this is a tricky topic to discuss but old people can be too trusting due to changes in their brain, and sometimes this can indicate the onset of an age-related illness. It might be a good time for her to get a checkup, particularly if she's being having problems with her memory or concentration.

Try to get her to break contact with this guy and don't force her to email him any more. Spend more time with her yourself over the next few weeks & do nice things (day trip for example). Like it or not, but your poor mother probably had her hopes and dreams pinned on this non-existant guy and there'll be a big hole in her life now that he's gone.