Part 4 Tenancy - Landlord wants to add change from 3 bed to 4 bed

seadnamac

Hi. Three of us are in a house for just over three years so we have Part 4 rights. Landlord called us to say that she wants to convert the house from a three bed to a four bed and up rent by 200. The spare room is laughably small and I don't see how anyone could use it as a bedroom. She is saying she will give us first refusal on finding a fourth person to fill it but is making it sound like if we can't we are out. I understand she is within her rights to review the rent (no reviews to date) with us as is but can she decide to add an extra room/tenant while we have Part 4?

salamanca22

seadnamac wrote: »

Hi. Three of us are in a house for just over three years so we have Part 4 rights. Landlord called us to say that she wants to convert the house from a three bed to a four bed and up rent by 200. The spare room is laughably small and I don't see how anyone could use it as a bedroom. She is saying she will give us first refusal on finding a fourth person to fill it but is making it sound like if we can't we are out. I understand she is within her rights to review the rent (no reviews to date) with us as is but can she decide to add an extra room/tenant while we have Part 4?

Are you paying per room or jointly for the entire dwelling?

seadnamac

salamanca22 wrote: »

seadnamac wrote: »

Hi. Three of us are in a house for just over three years so we have Part 4 rights. Landlord called us to say that she wants to convert the house from a three bed to a four bed and up rent by 200. The spare room is laughably small and I don't see how anyone could use it as a bedroom. She is saying she will give us first refusal on finding a fourth person to fill it but is making it sound like if we can't we are out. I understand she is within her rights to review the rent (no reviews to date) with us as is but can she decide to add an extra room/tenant while we have Part 4?

Are you paying per room or jointly for the entire dwelling?

Jointly for entire dwelling.

salamanca22

seadnamac wrote: »

Jointly for entire dwelling.

Then, on the face of it they are not allowed to do it. Unless your lease specifically says you are renting room A, B and C with use of the common areas.

This is one for threshold though I think. They will advise you further and may recommend RTB intervention if your landlord insists on their plans.

http://www.threshold.ie/advice/

Edit: This is only the case if they are deciding to look to fill the room after the renovations. Landlords are allowed to renovate their dwellings so long as the lease and tenants right are respected.

Just to note, the landlord may issue notice to end the tenancy if they so wish, improvements are a valid reason if the improvements would mean the house would not be habitable during them. I imagine converting a room would satisfy this as it would impeach on your right of quiet peaceful occupation of the dwelling,

I'm not sure if she can or cannot do this but you should keep in mind that you don't have long left on your part4 anyway if you are over 3 years in the place so it's likely if you don't play ball with her you will be given notice as as soon as you are there 4 years.

seadnamac

Hope Salmon Salesclerk wrote: »

I'm not sure if she can or cannot do this but you should keep in mind that you don't have long left on your part4 anyway if you are over 3 years in the place so it's likely if you don't play ball with her you will be given notice as as soon as you are there 4 years.

That's 11 months away so at least we would have loads of time.

dennyk

salamanca22 wrote: »

Then, on the face of it they are not allowed to do it.

The landlord can't force the current tenants to take on another tenant if their lease is for the entire property, but they could convert the extra room to a bedroom (assuming it meets code requirements) and then raise the rent to the appropriate market value for a four-bedroom property (assuming it's been at least two years since the last rent review). Whether that would justify a 200 euro increase depends on the local market.

Michael D Not Higgins

If the landlord wants to do this they would have to terminate the tenancy first giving the reason of substantial renovation requiring the tenants to leave, with them getting first refusal at a reletting. As there is no mention of having to leave, I expect that all that will happen is they will drop a bed and some other furniture into the box room. If that's the case then the landlord is not doing 'substantial renovation' and you would have a claim against an invalid notice.

However on the other hand I expect if there is pushback on this then the landlord will just go for a rent review. OP, what is the market rent for 3 beds in your area vs what you're paying now? If there's a €200 difference, you might prefer to just pay it and not take on another housemate. If the landlord is intent on getting a 4th bedroom in there, they may just wait to terminate the tenancy next year during the first 6 months of your further Part 4 tenancy.

murphaph

I'm guessing the current rent is probably not far off 200 below market value if it's in a city and there has been no rent review in over 3 years. The LL could possibly just up your rent by the 200 and let the OP find a bed and tenant for that box room to help cover the cost themselves!

seadnamac

Just dug up the lease. We are definitely renting the entire house together and not separately. As fas as market rent goes we are paying €1150 and having a look around on Rent the going rate seems to be around €1150-1350. So she might have a case to review the rent. Just a strange way to go about it really.