Hap can landllord ask for all this?

minimum

I have been searching for a landlord who will take hap and when I finally do , I must pay him a month deposit, a month in advance and a top up payment which is the difference of what he is paid by council and actual rental price.
This is a lot for me to come up with, Can he ask for all this?

Stheno

minimum wrote: »

I have been searching for a landlord who will take hap and when I finally do , I must pay him a month deposit, a month in advance and a top up payment which is the difference of what he is paid by council and actual rental price.
This is a lot for me to come up with, Can he ask for all this?

Yes it's perfectly normal

endacl

Bog standard rental agreement.

KERSPLAT!

minimum wrote: »

I have been searching for a landlord who will take hap and when I finally do , I must pay him a month deposit, a month in advance and a top up payment which is the difference of what he is paid by council and actual rental price.
This is a lot for me to come up with, Can he ask for all this?

A month deposit - standard
A month in advance - standard

The difference between the price and allowance has to be paid, surely you knew this?

Anyway, again - standard

The_Conductor

minimum wrote: »

I have been searching for a landlord who will take hap and when I finally do , I must pay him a month deposit, a month in advance and a top up payment which is the difference of what he is paid by council and actual rental price.
This is a lot for me to come up with, Can he ask for all this?

All of those requests are entirely normal- indeed, its becoming increasingly common for 2 months deposit to be sought unless the property is let unfurnished. What the landlord is seeking- is the norm.

If you're unable to come up with the deposit etc- contact the local CWO for assistance.

handlemaster

If the tenant has a problem at this stage in paying its not a good sign. But all the best to the landlord and OP

Hollister11

If I was a landlord I would be charging the first and last months rent, along with a security deposit.

Moonbeam

It depends..Is HAP paying your full rent and he wants more then they allow for your area? If so no this is not allowed.

Gatling

Moonbeam wrote: »

It depends..Is HAP paying your full rent and he wants more then they allow for your area? If so no this is not allowed.

Going be reading the landlord is looking for the standard up front deposit and one month in advance plus there own contribution to be paid towards the HAP

foggy_lad

With HAP afaik the tenant pays their contribution directly to the council using the household payments facility in the post office, it gets deducted weekly from the tenants weekly social welfare payment, and the council pay the full rent to the landlord so if the landlord is looking for a top up amount that is not allowed and should be reported to the council!

Pro Hoc Vice

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

A month deposit - standard
A month in advance - standard

The difference between the price and allowance has to be paid, surely you knew this?

Anyway, again - standard

If it is rent allowance you are 100% correct but not for HAP. In HAP the landlord agrees the rent directly with the council and is paid directly by the council. The tenant pays the council the normal council rent. There should in HAP be no difference.

davo10

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

If it is rent allowance you are 100% correct but not for HAP. In HAP the landlord agrees the rent directly with the council and is paid directly by the council. The tenant pays the council the normal council rent. There should in HAP be no difference.

Do the council pay the deposit and rent in advance?

The_Conductor

davo10 wrote: »

Do the council pay the deposit and rent in advance?

Depends entirely on what you manage to persuade the local authority to do- norm is they do not pay the deposit, and rent is paid in arrears, not advance. Its one of the bugbears many landlords have with the scheme- however, that said, some local authorities have proactively addressed this and do pay in advance- and a deposit- its just they don't all do it *yet anyway!*

Pro Hoc Vice

davo10 wrote: »

Do the council pay the deposit and rent in advance?

I believe so the council deals directly with the landlord and enters into a contract directly with the LL. If the LL does not agree with the Council then no HAP.

iainBB

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

I believe so the council deals directly with the landlord and enters into a contract directly with the LL. If the LL does not agree with the Council then no HAP.

This is not correct the council does not work or have contract directly with landlord , they pay on behalf of the tennent only.
The contract is with the tennent. They are very clear on this it covers them, and another issue with landlord and HAP rejection.


"8 Who is the ‘landlord’ – me or the local authority?
The key ‘landlord and tenant’ relationship is between you and the HAP tenant. As such, the
tenancy will be governed by the terms of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended).
This means that the HAP tenant is your tenant and is not a tenant of the local authorit"

The_Conductor

iainBB - any chance you could post a link to where you're getting this from- as it looks like the Local Authorities are not being consistent even with this........

iainBB

The_Conductor wrote: »

iainBB - any chance you could post a link to where you're getting this from- as it looks like the Local Authorities are not being consistent even with this........

Website here

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html

Direct link to PDF here.
http://www.environ.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/hap_landlord_information_booklet_eng_v3_2016.pdf

Pro Hoc Vice

iainBB wrote: »

This is not correct the council does not work or have contract directly with landlord , they pay on behalf of the tennent only.
The contract is with the tennent. They are very clear on this it covers them, and another issue with landlord and HAP rejection.


"8 Who is the ‘landlord’ – me or the local authority?
The key ‘landlord and tenant’ relationship is between you and the HAP tenant. As such, the
tenancy will be governed by the terms of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended).
This means that the HAP tenant is your tenant and is not a tenant of the local authorit"

Did I say the council are the tenant I said the council enter into a contract with the LL which they do to pay the rent directly to the LL, they also require the LL to provide certain information and declarations.

The_Conductor

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Did I say the council are the tenant I said the council enter into a contract with the LL which they do to pay the rent directly to the LL, they also require the LL to provide certain information and declarations.

The council *do not* enter into a contract with the landlord- the only contract the council/local authority have- is with the person who requires HAP accommodation. The tenant has a regular contract, as defined under the Residential Tenancies Act- with the landlord/owner of the property- this is the sole 'contract' the owner of the property has.........

Its not entirely satisfactory for a number of reasons- including, but not limited to- if the tenant fails to make the weekly HAP payment to the local authority- the local authority can suspend HAP payments to the landlord, without any notice (and indeed, will refuse to discuss the case with the landlord over the phone- they simply refer the landlord to the Residential Tenancies Board- and advise they lodge a case- which is a complete and utter cop out).

In the current climate- where local authorities expect a discount on rent payments- based on the fact that a landlord can use more debt payments to shelter rental income- it simply becomes cumbersome and onerous.

At the end of the day- in my honest opinion- the HAP schemes should be wound up in as expeditious a manner as possible- and tenants migrated over to council/local authority owned properties- as they come on stream..........

HAP is a method for local authorities to somehow 'normalise' the relationship between longterm housing recipients and the private sector- when the private sector should not be involved in the provision of social housing in the first place.............

Pro Hoc Vice

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/692250390.pdf

The LA require the LL to be tax compliment, the LA can inspect the property and the LA agree to pay the money directly to the LL. So in brief the LL agrees to provide property to a third party the LA agree to pay the rent as agreed in full all the basics of a legal contract to me.

The_Conductor

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/692250390.pdf

The LA require the LL to be tax compliment, the LA can inspect the property and the LA agree to pay the money directly to the LL. So in brief the LL agrees to provide property to a third party the LA agree to pay the rent as agreed in full all the basics of a legal contract to me.

Eh no. The Local Authority payment of rent- is entirely subject to the tenant fulfilling numerous criterion- including payment of the weekly rent to the local authority. The HAP application and contract- is formally signed between the tenant and the local authority. A sweetener for a landlord to accept a tenant who wants to sign up to the scheme- is the fact that they are paid the rent by the local authority- rather than the tenant- however, its in arrears, not in advance (as would be the case with a regular tenant)- and there is onerous paperwork- including a tax clearance cert- which over 32,000 landlords are not required to have (as their predominant source of income is PAYE income- not rental income)..........

If you look at the HAP application form- it is a formal contract between the tenant and the local authority- the complete submission of which includes numerous requirements from the landlord (not least of which is the aforementioned tax clearance cert- but also their bank account details etc).

It is up to the tenant to pay the deposit (from whatever source they can obtain it- which could include the local CWO)- and if rent in advance is required by the landlord- once again, the tenant has to source this.

If the local authority stops paying the rent (for example- because the tenant neglects to lodge their weekly token rent)- the monthly rent stops- with no warning- and as its paid in arrears- the landlord is down a month's rent, before he/she ever discovers there is an issue. If they complain to the local authority- they are formally told the local authority has no contract with the landlord- their contract is with the tenant- and if there is an issue in the relationship a landlord has with the tenant- it is up to the landlord to use the channels specified in the Act (aka lodge a case with the Residential Tenancies Board) in order to resolve it (including- but not limited to- non-payment of rent- which is the obligation of the tenant, and not the local authority- despite the rent being formally paid electronically by the local authority).

There most certainly is no contract between the landlord and the local authority- the whole point of the scheme from the local authority's perspective- is that there isn't- they have zero interest in having obligations towards the landlord- their sole obligation is to provide housing for the tenant- that it is private sector accommodation- is merely a reflection of facts on the ground- they have insufficient local authority/council owned social housing units............

Pro Hoc Vice

What the LA try and achieve and what the courts may find are two different things. Just because the state say something is a does not mean it is.

I have no view on the politics of the issue or if it will fail but I would think a LL may have a case against the LA if rent stops. Will be interesting to see how it works out.

_kookie

The Local Authority approached me to rent properties for HAP and RA.
I said sure no problem, lets talk.
I was happy to rent to the local authority at a discounted rate for a fixed term.
It transpired that the local authority wanted nothing to do with the tenant bar paying their rent. I clarified what they would do if anything went wrong. A lot lot of talking from them, but in the end. NOTHING was the answer.

Are they mad.
I will rent my property to the local authority. After that their tenant is their tenant and their problem.
They didnt want this, so no deal.
If only they would cop on to themselves and just rent properties for a fixed term without all of the mess, red tape and general hassle for the landlord that they seem to want to create, they would have no problems getting properties.

iainBB

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Did I say the council are the tenant I said the council enter into a contract with the LL which they do to pay the rent directly.

That is just wrong information. Do your research

iainBB

For HAP to be successful in the private sector it need a u turn on policy/ implementatio in current market.

Deposit paid
In advance rent payment
Client database, previous issues etc,
Contract between LL and council
Full responsibility for tennent. Damage etc
Anti social other, issues quickly resolved
Easy application

Sweetener:
tax reduction
Above market rate

minimum

if rent is 1500 a month and hap will pay 1200 then I have to make up the 300 myself to pay the landlord plus pay a rent to the council. A month in advance and deposit is 3000 euro which is a lot for me tbh as have returned to education. I may get deposit back but will never get the month in advance back. D'ya get me?

The_Conductor

minimum wrote: »

if rent is 1500 a month and hap will pay 1200 then I have to make up the 300 myself to pay the landlord plus pay a rent to the council. A month in advance and deposit is 3000 euro which is a lot for me tbh as have returned to education. I may get deposit back but will never get the month in advance back. D'ya get me?

I hear you- loud and clear.
What you need to do is talk to DSP's local CWO- and get them to help.
They look kindly on people who are genuinely doing their best.

Gumbo

minimum wrote: »

if rent is 1500 a month and hap will pay 1200 then I have to make up the 300 myself to pay the landlord plus pay a rent to the council. A month in advance and deposit is 3000 euro which is a lot for me tbh as have returned to education. I may get deposit back but will never get the month in advance back. D'ya get me?

You will always get the month in advance back.
My tennant pays me the 1st of every month for that month. If you want to leave you always set the termination date for the end of a particular month.

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

You will always get the month in advance back.
My tennant pays me the 1st of every month for that month. If you want to leave you always set the termination date for the end of a particular month.

He or she means they won't get it from the council.

minimum

Exactly , I won't get it from the council so I will be at a loss of 1500 euro.
apologies if I didn't explain it clearly

iainBB

You see a lot of landlord pushing for 2 months rent as deposit now as a way of protecting themselves from HAP applicants( as well as other reasons. )

minimum

oh right, I'm with ya.
yeah I guess it's normal practice so.
thanks for all the replys