New Street

Newstreet

My grandfather was born in number 68 New Street, which is in this block of buildings. His parents and grandparents variously lived in numbers 60, 61,
63, 67 & 68. I think Lowes pub on the corner with Dean Street ended the line at number 71, but try as I might, I cannot find any indication anywhere as to which house was which number. The 1862 Dublin street directory gives numbers and tenants from an earlier era, but does not help with identifying which house in the picture might be which. No other photographs of this block have appeared. And of course it is all long since demolished.

Any suggestions as to where I might find more photographs or information?

shanew

what timeframe did the family live at these addresses ?

In Thom's 1914 New street is described as running between Kevin Street and Clanbrasil Street lower, with numbers going from 1 to 72. Number 1 was at the Kevin Street end (north) and appears to be on the eastern side, with numbers running south to the southern end at the junction between Malpas Street and Long lane and back north from 36 to 72.

If this is correct then number 72 was on the western corner of New Street and the north end, where the street intersects with dean street and in 1914 is listed as P. Kavanagh, provision dealer. The adjacent numbers on the west side are listed as follows :

59 John Burke, greengrocer,
60 Tenements
61 and 62 Mr. Patrick Kearns / rere - M. Held zinc works
63 & 64 Ruins
65 Denis Lynch furniture dealer
66 Tenements
67 Owen Kellett , grocer
68 J. Mooney, victualler
69 R. F. Tynam pork butcher
70a A. Harkins & Co., drapers
70 & 71 Tenements

edit - based on the 'ERI registration photo is mid 1950s at the earliest

Newstreet

Thanks Shane, that's helpful. I would imagine, given a continuation of usage, if 69 remained a pork butchers, then it is seen on the photograph here, as T&P O'Rourke, though no number is visible. The timeframe would be the census years, 1901-1911.



Logic suggests then, that the next door building on the left is number 68, my grandfather's birthplace. It's a pity no other photographs of this block have emerged. I have searched everywhere. The same few photographs appear on all the forums. I'd have loved a better look at the building, and also to see numbers 60, 61, 63 & 67 closer too.

shanew

extract of part New St. from Thom's 1906

KildareFan

List of electors in New Street in 1912 here http://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/viewdoc.php?burgessid=&orderby=8526&imagefile=1912_0823.jpg

No 68 isn't on the list.

tabbey

shanew wrote: »

edit - based on the 'ERI registration photo is mid 1950s at the earliest

Shane you are confusing ERI 123 with 123 ERI!
The letters first were 55-56 era, but numerals followed by letters was early seventies.

Newstreet

According to the list of electors, number 68 New Street is a 'house and rooms over gateway.' That would possibly contradict the labelled photo I posted earlier. See what I mean about how hard it is to identify which house number is which in the few photographs available? Thanks all though.

ollaetta

If I can suggest something, those buildings were part of a Compulsory Purchase Order made by Dublin Corporation in the early 1970s for road widening. I'm fairly sure it was called the New Street/Clanbrassil Street CPO.

When a CPO is made a schedule is drawn up of all affected properties including details not just of current owners and occupiers but historic information on freehold and leasehold title.

All that info including maps of each property would still be held by DCC and I would suggest a call to it's property registration section or whatever section deals with CPOs.

P.S. on the car reg, 1 ARI - 999 YRI covered the period July 74 to May 75 (Wikipedia).

ollaetta

OP, found these pics on a digital archive just made available by DCC this week:

New Street 1985_1 New Street 1985_2 New Street 1985_3

From what I can work out No. 68 would have been where the pub is. Although called Pearses in 1985 it was The New Inn for years and looked a newer building than those around it.

Victor

Study the census details for the street, which may give whether the building was first class, second class, etc. - this may tell you number of storeys, windows on front, etc.

Newstreet

Excellent, just what I was hoping for! Number 69 is clearly marked, so that nails it a bit. Now, does that mean 68 was the full width of the neighbouring building, I wonder? I'll have a look at the census again. Many thanks indeed!

Victor

Lowes, the corner bar appears to be number 7 Dean Street, which would match the numbering here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.33892/-6.27304 and the number of buildings here: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,715031,733457,12,9 (dated circa 1906)

That both photos only show the number 7, not 71 or 72 would seem to confirm this.

https://s12.postimg.org/hxzeu1j65/Kevin_St_Upp_a.jpg
http://digital.libraries.dublincity.ie/vital/access/manager/Repository/vital:41622/IMAGE1

I take it that 5, 6 & 7 Dean Street were demolished when New Street was widened.

Note the roof and window spacing on Lowes suggests is was originally two separate buildings - one facing each street. The plaster on the building is likely to be 20th century.

Newstreet wrote: »

According to the list of electors, number 68 New Street is a 'house and rooms over gateway.'

The gateway may have been very modest and replaced by a shopfront in later years.

Newstreet wrote: »

Excellent, just what I was hoping for! Number 69 is clearly marked, so that nails it a bit. Now, does that mean 68 was the full width of the neighbouring building, I wonder?

I think 67-69 are the terrace of two-storey houses. 69 seems to have two windows upstairs while 67-68 have five windows upstairs between them.

I am speculating, but it may have been like this:
67 Two window upstairs, door and shopfront downstairs.
68 Three window upstairs, gate, door and shopfront downstairs. This would concur with the sign panel in the photo below.
69 Two window upstairs, door and shopfront downstairs.

In the 1911 census:
67 had 11 windows at the front and 7-9 rooms: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000197963/
68 was a stable yard.
69 had 5 windows at the front and 5-6 rooms.
70 had 6 windows at the front and 2-4 rooms.
71 had 7 windows at the front and 7-9 rooms: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000197964/
72 isn't listed, presumably because it is the same building as 7 Dean Street

This makes me think that 67-69 (in the view below) were built after the 1911 census.

Victor

The numbers of windows in my image here would seem to match those I listed above.

There appears to be a "70" on the credit union building.

Suggestions:
* Check with the city library for maps and more detailed photos.
* Find some telephone directories from the 1960-1985 period and check the business names in the photographs.

pinkypinky

Dublin City Library & Archive has old telephone directories.

spurious

Thom's 1969 and 1986.

Victor

Looks like shenanigans with the lat few numbers.

The pubs and the pharmacy seem to be the fixed features.

Newstreet

Oh well done, many thanks indeed! A lot there for me to study. When I have had a closer look at all of that, I'll see what else I can turn up. Many thanks again!

ollaetta

Here's an enlarged extract from an old map I found a few years ago. No date unfortunately. It's not that clear enlarged but you can see the numbers 67-68 on the building in the bottom left.

There is a entrance or laneway between that building and 69 which would fit with the description someone found of a house and rooms over a gateway. On that basis I think 68 was definitely where the pub was.

Newstreet

Brilliant, ollaetta, many thanks indeed!

Victor

ollaetta wrote: »

Here's an enlarged extract from an old map I found a few years ago. No date unfortunately.

Sometime mid 20th century, as buildings have been demolished for the widening of Kevin Street.

ollaetta

Stumbled on this one on Pinterest. Never saw it before.

Newstreet

Brilliant again, ollaetta, super!

spurious

A thought - is the Foley's pharmacy connected with either the Meath Street or Parnell St Foley's Pharmacies? If so, they might have some old photos.

Victor

This site has telephone directories from 1913 http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/1913PhoneList8.htm

Location Phone Subscriber Address
Dublin 3843 O'Connor, Wm., Grocer & Publican 35 New Street
Dublin 1266a Kavanagh, Patrick 72 New Street
Dublin 1888 Kellett, Owen, Licensed Vintner 67 New Street