Liffey Valley roundabout

WittyName1

For anyone reading this that uses the Fonthill/Liffey Valley / N4 roundabout....

When leaving Liffey Valley and approaching the roundabout to continue your journey:

The inside lane (closest to the roundabout) is for those going to the N4 TOWARDS DUBLIN!

The middle lane is for those going to the N4 TOWARDS THE WEST!

I'm risking my life on this roundabout every evening due to people using the inside lane when heading towards the west....as they cut across two lanes when leaving the roundabout so they can race up the slip road towards the N4.

I'm hoping this post might make some people realise they've been using the wrong lane.

Thanks!

Kings Inns or bust

Witty, go and have a read of the tread started by me giving an example of a simple roundabout scenario. Seriously it would be easier to solve the West Bank problem than it would be to get people in the correct lanes at roundabouts/motorways.

Get a dashcam, give yourself a bit of piece of mind if you do have a bit of a fender bender and give us all a laugh!

uck51js9zml2yt

I thought all that was common sense...I hate that roundabout!

CiniO

WittyName1 wrote: »

I'm hoping this post might make some people realise they've been using the wrong lane.

Thanks!

If that's the roundabout you are talking about, and you refer to drivers coming from shopping centre direction (from right of the picture) then you can't say people are using the wrong lane.

There are 2 lanes for turning right, so both can be used, no matter where someone intends to go after turning right on the roundabout.

Problem is that after the roundabout, there's very little space to change lanes to choose right direction (Dublin or West). But that's not driver's fault but just road design flaw.

It's just poor road engineering.

Driver's can go on any of the 2 lanes....

kaymin

Also, taking the inside lane around the round-about, you only have to move one lane left to get onto the N4 slip road going West - 2 lanes lead to this slip road.

Toyotafanboi

In fairness that does happen there a fair bit... could be easily solved by writing it on the lanes "dublin" and "west" or something.

If you are trying to get back to the M50 then staying in the right most lane for the duration is the easiest way as is staying in the middle lane for west bound and anybody who travels this route regularly that hasn't copped this should really question their driving skills.

You cant blame people who don't know the area, as Cinio says, there isn't much room to change lanes later but these people should be relatively few and far between.

RandomAccess

Theres a roundabout there?
With all the smoke from the halting site burning their rubbish I just go on blind faith.

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

If that's the roundabout you are talking about, and you refer to drivers coming from shopping centre direction (from right of the picture) then you can't say people are using the wrong lane.

There are 2 lanes for turning right, so both can be used, no matter where someone intends to go after turning right on the roundabout.

Problem is that after the roundabout, there's very little space to change lanes to choose right direction (Dublin or West). But that's not driver's fault but just road design flaw.

It's just poor road engineering.

Driver's can go on any of the 2 lanes....

That may be so but normal rules apply. if you find yourself in the wrong lane after following your lane around the roundabout, you cant just swing across lanes to get to where you want without regard to other traffic.

Vic_08

CiniO wrote: »

If that's the roundabout you are talking about, and you refer to drivers coming from shopping centre direction (from right of the picture) then you can't say people are using the wrong lane.

There are 2 lanes for turning right, so both can be used, no matter where someone intends to go after turning right on the roundabout.

Problem is that after the roundabout, there's very little space to change lanes to choose right direction (Dublin or West). But that's not driver's fault but just road design flaw.

It's just poor road engineering.

Driver's can go on any of the 2 lanes....

No.

Sign on approach clearly states left lane for left turn to Clondalkin, centre lane for right turn towards N4 Lucan/West, right lane for right turn N4/M50 Dublin.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3535962,-6.4018288,3a,15y,234.88h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTpW7UJ2twPS18-e8RzPyRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WittyName1

Vic_08 wrote: »

No.

Sign on approach clearly states left lane for left turn to Clondalkin, centre lane for right turn towards N4 Lucan/West, right lane for right turn N4/M50 Dublin.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3535962,-6.4018288,3a,15y,234.88h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTpW7UJ2twPS18-e8RzPyRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I was about to post that. Thanks.

Yeah - the sign on approach clearly states that the inside lane is for N4 to Dublin. Middle lane is for the N4 to the West.

WittyName1

kaymin wrote: »

Also, taking the inside lane around the round-about, you only have to move one lane left to get onto the N4 slip road going West - 2 lanes lead to this slip road.

For whatever reason most of the drivers that take the right/inside lane incorrectly seem to insist on cutting across two lanes upon exiting.

grogi

Vic_08 wrote: »

No.

Sign on approach clearly states left lane for left turn to Clondalkin, centre lane for right turn towards N4 Lucan/West, right lane for right turn N4/M50 Dublin.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3535962,-6.4018288,3a,15y,234.88h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTpW7UJ2twPS18-e8RzPyRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This sign has no power nor enforcement - it is just a guidance. Nobody breaks the law simply ignoring it.

Should there be a solid line after the RB (there should be if you ask me, even slightly raised) that would be a different story. But as long as there is a dashed one, antisocial types will keep doing what they are doing to save (on average) 13.8 seconds of the drive time.

WittyName1

grogi wrote: »

This sign has no power nor enforcement - it is just a guidance. Nobody breaks the law simply ignoring it.

Should there be a solid line after the RB (there should be if you ask me, even slightly raised) that would be a different story. But as long as there is a dashed one, antisocial types will keep doing what they are doing to save (on average) 13.8 seconds of the drive time.

The line after the roundabout is a solid line if I'm not mistaken.
The road markings were updated a few months back but haven't made a difference to how people are using this roundabout.

grogi

WittyName1 wrote: »

The line after the roundabout is a solid line if I'm not mistaken.

That's why I would even suggest a physical separation - like a slightly raised line with 45* profile or those flexible dividers...

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/With-Flexible-Post-Durable-Rubber-Road_60060459786.html

WittyName1 wrote: »

The road markings were updated a few months back but haven't made a difference to how people are using this roundabout.

In that case get a dash-cam and start reporting them in batches...

shietpilot

Whoever designed this roundabout really fecked up. I usually drive around this roundabout using the red path and now they have removed the section after the exit which allowed you to merge into the single lane. According to the road markings you are expected to merge into the left lane on the roundabout before you exit because there is a hatched section on the exit.

Now that's all good and well except I find that everyone now uses the middle lane which is straight only to go right and you end up almost being wiped out by ignorant drivers! Did they ever bother actually looking at this roundabout from a bird's eye view to see how messed up it is? It used to be much better when there was no hatched section and you could merge easily without having look out for new traffic pulling into the roundabout and checking mirrors to see if you can marge into the left lane in the middle of the roundabout.



In fact this whole roundabout doesn't even make sense. It's a spiral, not a roundabout:


Even on the Google Maps skyview you can see 2 cars on the roundabout having problems with the lanes!

bmwguy

What I don't understand about roundabout design in Ireland is this.

When doing my driving test and learning the rules of the road I was always told that if there are 2 lanes approaching a roundabout the left lane is for taking the first and second exits. The right lane is for taking third or any subsequent exits.

Am I correct in this?

Furthermore, there were tv ad campaigns which I always found a bit cringy emphasising the rules above showing people how to correctly use roundabouts, its a pity it needs tv ads but it is what it is. Left for 1 and 2, right for 3, 4 and so on.

Ok, so far so good.

Now, many roundabouts near me have signs contradicting this, telling people to use right lane for exit 2 (which is more or less straight on 180 degrees) and left lane for exit 1 only.

One roundabout I pass through on a daily basis on way to and way from work is a typical roundabout with the option of 1 left, 2 straight on and 3 right from all approaches.

But the sign on the way to work says left lane is for left and straight on, the way from work says left lane is for left only.

So I don't know, do I obey rules of the road book and the tv ad by the RSA or the signs. I presume the signs trump anything else. But the signs are right on the roundabout, by the time you see them you have chosen your lane based on what you learnt in driving school and can't always change.

So the whole thing is arseways.

As for people taking an outside left lane and continuing past 2nd exit cutting across in front of people, they need a serious slap and some points on their licence

Mc Love

If there is arrows indicating which lane to use, go by them, otherwise do what you were taught

grogi

shietpilot wrote: »

Whoever designed this roundabout really fecked up. I usually drive around this roundabout using the red path and now they have removed the section after the exit which allowed you to merge into the single lane.

It is not fecked up. It's actaully pretty good.

You're taking a bad path too, the way you drive puts you at disadvantage at the exit... You change a lane then and the yellow driver does not and has right of way.

That's how you should be driving:



At the 10 o'clock it is the yellow driver is changing a lane while you keep yours. You have right of way.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

As for people taking an outside left lane and continuing past 2nd exit cutting across in front of people, they need a serious slap and some points on their licence

Why is it? They are not breaking any law - they just drive their lane.

hmmm

Without wanting to sound too patronising, I think there's an awful lot of people using that roundabout who are up from the country, maybe traveling home after a holiday etc, who are not used to that roundabout and are certainly not used to such a busy roundabout. Personally I think traffic lights with a few flashing amber left turn lanes would be a safer solution that would still keep traffic moving.

Glebee

Can we not just put traffic lights on it... There problem solved..:P

cerastes

WittyName1 wrote: »

For anyone reading this that uses the Fonthill/Liffey Valley / N4 roundabout....

When leaving Liffey Valley and approaching the roundabout to continue your journey:

The inside lane (closest to the roundabout) is for those going to the N4 TOWARDS DUBLIN!

The middle lane is for those going to the N4 TOWARDS THE WEST!

I'm risking my life on this roundabout every evening due to people using the inside lane when heading towards the west....as they cut across two lanes when leaving the roundabout so they can race up the slip road towards the N4.

I'm hoping this post might make some people realise they've been using the wrong lane.

Thanks!

You're wrong, the painted arrows on the road give the direction you are allowed to take, and they say the middle lane can be used to make a right turn. I think it's less confusing if you referred to the lanes as nearside/offside and centre (or middle) and that middle lane allows you to turn right, there is ample room for a car to turn right and then merge onto the N4 going west or take the 3rd exit and head under the N4 bridge if going east on the N4/towards the M50.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That may be so but normal rules apply. if you find yourself in the wrong lane after following your lane around the roundabout, you cant just swing across lanes to get to where you want without regard to other traffic.

My own understanding is that road markings (painted arrows) are statutory and that is a normal rule.

A more serious gripe is merging onto the N4 going east, I dont have a problem doing so, but I usually have to force my way in a lot of the time, which wouldn't be an issue if most drivers weren't speeding by that point and refuse to allow other drivers to merge, especially where they want to cross over to get onto the M50 southbound.
this wouldnt be as much of a problem if people weren't speeding down the N4 so it really needs a fixed speed camera that works all the time. I've seen vehicles speeding down that section of road, decline to allow people to merge, move into the overtaking lane and then career into the slip lane to merge with the M50 nothbound.

For roundabouts that are a joke, look at the newly replaced lanes and markings at the roundabout at the entrance to the fonthill retail outlets (lidl/aldi/NCTS).
A driver coming from the N4 direction turning right into the retail park, actually finds they have no lane once they have turned right, that is a complete joke, the redesigned lanes have meant that traffic is slowed a lot more and there is usually a jam as even a small amount of extra traffic jams the whole thing up.
It seems it was put in place to aid traffic coming from the coldcut rd (liffey valley?) to speed their exit onto the N4, but due to the usual clogging at the roundabout every exit gets clogged as no one can move, whomever designed that layout is an idiot. The only good thing about it is an extra lane has been placed that allows traffic go left towards the coldcut road.

WittyName1

cerastes wrote: »

You're wrong, the painted arrows on the road give the direction you are allowed to take, and they say the middle lane can be used to make a right turn. I think it's less confusing if you referred to the lanes as nearside/offside and centre (or middle) and that middle lane allows you to turn right, there is ample room for a car to turn right and then merge onto the N4 going west or take the 3rd exit and head under the N4 bridge if going east on the N4/towards the M50.


.

I'm sorry but you infact are wrong.
There is a sign before the roundabout clearly stating that the middle lane is for those going west on the N4 only.

Solid lines exist on the exit indicating lane changing isn't expected.

The lane nearest the roundabout / inside lane (when leaving Liffey valley) is for Dublin bound n4 traffic only.

WittyName1

The replies on this thread are indicative of the vast number of regular users of this roundabout that don't realise the middle lane I am talking about is for westbound traffic only.

cerastes

WittyName1 wrote: »

The replies on this thread are indicative of the vast number of regular users of this roundabout that don't realise the middle lane I am talking about is for westbound traffic only.

the overhead view shows very clearly an arrow on the road showing a right turn can be made, painted road markings are statutory instructions which is equal in authority to a regulatory sign, that sign pictured is not a statutory instruction as in a Stop or yield sign, it is simply an informational sign.

People make these mistakes, and we are all capable of it, but where most roundabouts shouldnt be travelled around the outside, this one allows it and the painted arrows confirm this, further to that, I use this roundabout regularily and it does not pose any difficulty except where others dont understand/see the road markings or apply the usual rules for most other roundabouts. It may be an exception, but in this case it is the rule.

http://www.drivingtesttips.ie/Regulatory-Traffic-Signs.php

BrianD3

WittyName1 wrote: »

The replies on this thread are indicative of the vast number of regular users of this roundabout that don't realise the middle lane I am talking about is for westbound traffic only.

The sign doesn't have all possible routes on it - for instance if you are going to Kings Hospital, you are not going onto the N4 westbound or eastbound or to Clondalkin so should you be in the rightmost lane or middle lane in that case.

Taking the sign, road markings and overhead view together l would conclude that
-rightmost lane should not be used for traffic intending to go west on the N4
-middle lane can be used for traffic intending to go west or east on the N4.

For Kings Hospital, middle lane is probably best.

WittyName1

BrianD3 wrote: »

The sign doesn't have all possible routes on it - for instance if you are going to Kings Hospital, you are not going onto the N4 westbound or eastbound or to Clondalkin so should you be in the rightmost lane or middle lane in that case.

Taking the sign, road markings and overhead view together l would conclude that
-rightmost lane should not be used for traffic intending to go west on the N4
-middle lane can be used for traffic intending to go west or east on the N4.

For Kings Hospital, middle lane is probably best.

Apologies - I worded my post incorrectly.
I agree that the middle lane is for both west and eastbound traffic.

The point I failed to make is that the only lane that should be used when going west is the middle lane. That's what I was attempting to say.
The right lane/closest to roundabout lane shouldn't be used if going west on the n4.

It's westwards that I travel every evening so this is the route I am familiar with.

BrianD3

WittyName1 wrote: »

Apologies - I worded my post incorrectly.
I agree that the middle lane is for both west and eastbound traffic.

The point I failed to make is that the only lane that should be used when going west is the middle lane. That's what I was attempting to say.
The right lane/closest to roundabout lane shouldn't be used if going west on the n4.

It's westwards that I travel every evening so this is the route I am familiar with.

I agree. Is the problem here that at peak times, the rightmost lane is less congested so those heading west decide to use it to skip ahead and then force their way in.

Other posters have said that this might be due to confusion with drivers from the country up doing some shopping in LV. I'd disagree - in peak Dublin traffic, the majority of drivers who are in the wrong lane are familiar with the layout and are in the wrong lane on purpose.

WittyName1

BrianD3 wrote: »

I agree. Is the problem here that at peak times, the rightmost lane is less congested so those heading west decide to use it to skip ahead and then force their way in.

Other posters have said that this might be due to confusion with drivers from the country up doing some shopping in LV. I'd disagree - in peak Dublin traffic, the majority of drivers who are in the wrong lane are familiar with the layout and are in the wrong lane on purpose.

I completely agree.
Cars are taking the rightmost lane and start cutting across into the middle lane...and again over to the outermost lane to make a beeline for the n4 slip road.
It's extremely dangerous.

The middle and rightmost lanes used to exit with a dashed line between them. However it now has a solid line but regular users each evening still take the rightmost lane and cut across.

shietpilot

grogi wrote: »

It is not fecked up. It's actaully pretty good.

You're taking a bad path too, the way you drive puts you at disadvantage at the exit... You change a lane then and the yellow driver does not and has right of way.

That's how you should be driving:

At the 10 o'clock it is the yellow driver is changing a lane while you keep yours. You have right of way.

Yep, my photo was just an example. But the thing is you would have to be racing in order to get ahead of a car on the left and by the time you change lane they will end up beeping and flashing you. The design is just poor.

grogi

shietpilot wrote: »

Yep, my photo was just an example. But the thing is you would have to be racing in order to get ahead of a car on the left and by the time you change lane they will end up beeping and flashing you. The design is just poor.

The design is as good as it can be. What would you change if you were in charge?

The problem are the idiots who can't or don't want to see the lane markings...

degsie

cerastes wrote: »

For roundabouts that are a joke, look at the newly replaced lanes and markings at the roundabout at the entrance to the fonthill retail outlets (lidl/aldi/NCTS).
A driver coming from the N4 direction turning right into the retail park, actually finds they have no lane once they have turned right

Nonsense, there are two lanes when you turn right.

sonofenoch

Liffey Valley roundabout is childs play compared to Walkinstown roundabout

cerastes

degsie wrote: »

cerastes wrote: »

For roundabouts that are a joke, look at the newly replaced lanes and markings at the roundabout at the entrance to the fonthill retail outlets (lidl/aldi/NCTS).
A driver coming from the N4 direction turning right into the retail park, actually finds they have no lane once they have turned right

Nonsense, there are two lanes when you turn right.

Not nonsense,
In this instance I was referring to the roundabout at the entrance to font hill retail park as an example of a bad roundabout. When coming from the n4 direction there is one right turning lane into the retail park area, the other near side lane is not for traffic coming from the n4 but from the coldcut rd direction and it is not a right turning lane.
In this roundabout there is no markings to suggest you can go around the whole roundabout in the outer(near side) lane. If you go right in the offside lane by the time you reach the 3rd exit, you now have to cross a hatched area, and the arrow marking says you can only exit back towards the n4 but never into the retail park, it is truly a terrible design and I think they came up with it at the time they had to paint the road markings.overall since it was redone, the only good thing is the new slip road to the coldcut rd, everything else is a joke.

unkel

sonofenoch wrote: »

Liffey Valley roundabout is childs play compared to Walkinstown roundabout

Walkinstown roundabout is toddlers play compared to Arc de Triomphe roundabout

grogi

unkel wrote: »

Walkinstown roundabout is toddlers play compared to Arc de Triomphe roundabout

France - such a great place, so horrible people (who understand roundabouts...)