Quintana...'Ban Power Meters from racing'

velo.2010

And Valverde too.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-calls-for-power-meters-to-be-banned-from-racing/

I'd have to agree. Its a training aid. If they want to race with power meters then let them carry spare tubes, a pump, multi-tool and ride on clinchers! Seriously though, riding to numbers rather than feeling takes away a little of the drama of the race. The problem is, if you try to ban PM's then you have to go back and look at race-radio's too... though they're not usually used in training.

godtabh

velo.2010 wrote: »

And Valverde too.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-calls-for-power-meters-to-be-banned-from-racing/

I'd have to agree. Its a training aid. If they want to race with power meters then let them carry spare tubes, a pump, multi-tool and ride on clinchers! Seriously though, riding to numbers rather than feeling takes away a little of the drama of the race. The problem is, if you try to ban PM's then you have to go back and look at race-radio's too... though they're not usually used in training.

I disagree. Let them ride however they want. They aren't here to entertain us they are their to win. Entertaining us is down the list.

Kaisr Sose

I would say ban the radios. The races without them seem to be more spontaneous, on the rivet type racing.

velo.2010

godtabh wrote: »

I disagree. Let them ride however they want. They aren't here to entertain us they are their to win. Entertaining us is down the list.

Entertaining us is at least second on the list in the professional game.

DonegalBay

godtabh wrote: »

I disagree. Let them ride however they want. They aren't here to entertain us they are their to win. Entertaining us is down the list.

In my view, Professional sport is entertainment. If nobody was watching, it wouldn't be on TV, simple really. The Tour has become so predictable and formulatic that I barely watch more than a few stages. I would like to see Power meters, Race Radios any anything else that discourages spontaneity taken away from cycling. Even making the routes more varied

The first week of this Vuelta has been far more interesting than most GTs due to the lack of flat/sprint stages. We dont know who is going to win each day as opposed to the normal handful of sprinters we know will win in sprint stages.

I love the Vuelta.

godtabh

DonegalBay wrote: »

The first week of this Vuelta has been far more interesting than most GTs due to the lack of flat/sprint stages. We dont know who is going to win each day as opposed to the normal handful of sprinters we know will win in sprint stages.

I love the Vuelta.

And thats down to course design as power meters and race radios are all available

magicbastarder

they should cycle blindfolded with a teammate - who is not allowed overtake them - cycling behind shouting instructions on which way to turn, which gear to select, etc.

actually, is there anywhere that tandem racing is done on a serious basis?

theflamingpig

I think they should be banned. They take away from the excitement and races seem less epic when you know they're just looking at numbers. But now that they're here as sponsors it would be hard to get rid of them.

MPFGLB

Ban power meters and race radios

And sport is all about entertainment .....wining is not the real attraction ....you can win with 10 Chris Froomes against 10 proconi riders but no one will want to watch


Sport has always been about entertainment and the battle for supremacy ...never about being supreme ...then it becomes boring

ford2600

MPFGLB wrote: »

Ban power meters and race radios

And sport is all about entertainment .....wining is not the real attraction ....you can win with 10 Chris Froomes against 10 proconi riders but no one will want to watch


Sport has always been about entertainment and the battle for supremacy ...never about being supreme ...then it becomes boring

Pro sport is about selling stuff; everything else is secondary.

Beasty

Think we should ban bikes - improve Froome's chances....

Hager

magicbastarder wrote: »

actually, is there anywhere that tandem racing is done on a serious basis?

Paralympics and all other events that those competitors do.

robinph

magicbastarder wrote: »

they should cycle blindfolded with a teammate - who is not allowed overtake them - cycling behind shouting instructions on which way to turn, which gear to select, etc.

actually, is there anywhere that tandem racing is done on a serious basis?

Tandem blind racing in Rio should be on the telly in a week or so.

Daroxtar

Funny thing is I spotted Quintana fiddling with his Garmin just around the time of his second attack on Covadonga and I was thinking he's either checking Strava live segments or his Power meter.

Beasty

robinph wrote: »

Tandem blind racing in Rio should be on the telly in a week or so.

Hopefully a couple of guys I know will once again break the minute for the standing start kilometre

not sane

Yep and race radios.

lennymc

and carbon. and wheels. and and and.

JK.BMC

DonegalBay wrote: »

In my view, Professional sport is entertainment. If nobody was watching, it wouldn't be on TV, simple really. The Tour has become so predictable and formulatic that I barely watch more than a few stages. I would like to see Power meters, Race Radios any anything else that discourages spontaneity taken away from cycling. Even making the routes more varied

The first week of this Vuelta has been far more interesting than most GTs due to the lack of flat/sprint stages. We dont know who is going to win each day as opposed to the normal handful of sprinters we know will win in sprint stages.

I love the Vuelta.

There is some value- commercial, historic, economic etc - in having reasonably flat/rolly stages that end in bunch sprints in the grand tours. Yes I agree that the hills/mountains effectively identify the contenders but you cannot just obliterate the need for flat/sprint stages. And they often produce brilliant tactics and splits in crosswinds or bad weather; remember stage 2 in Holland last year in the TDF for example; it's not everybody's fup of tea. But as a racer who at club level would represent the 'lumpier' contingent in the Irish peleton, I don't think bike racing should effectively be reduced to a test of who can ride up/down a hill fastest, nor a sport where whoever has the fanciest bike computer technology typically wins.

neris

ban race radios and power meters. bring the races back to a more pure and simple format. they were able to the same races in the 30s 40s and 50s without radios or computers and they all got along fine. keep the improvements in bike tech and skill rather then fancy computers

Brian?

neris wrote: »

ban race radios and power meters. bring the races back to a more pure and simple format. they were able to the same races in the 30s 40s and 50s without radios or computers and they all got along fine. keep the improvements in bike tech and skill rather then fancy computers

Well then let's ban any groupset with more than 5 gears while we're at it.

As much as dislike temp riding we only actually see it successfully implemented in one of the 3 grand tours. Let's ban Le Tour de France so.

neris

Brian? wrote: »

Let's ban Le Tour de France so.

seconded

If it was up to me I'd ban power meters, race radio and limit the number of team cars. Yes, it's about winning, but pretty much every sport has restrictions on equipment to level the playing field or make the spectacle compelling. So does cycling, and this would just be another.

Those with long memories may remember Stephen Roche's heroics at La Plagne in 1987. As it stands that sort of drama can never happen again in professional cycling, which is a shame.

equivariant

JK.BMC wrote: »

..I don't think bike racing should effectively be reduced to a test of who can ride up/down a hill fastest .

Agree with this. Is it not ironic to complain about the predictability of sprint stages and ignore the fact that there are only 3 or 4 people who can aspire to
win the TdF simply because of the huge emphasis on climbing? And to a large extent climbing comes down to weight. At least imo, Peter Sagan is a more interesting rider to watch than Quintana/Froome, but Sagan will never win the Tour (unless he changes his body completely) and hasn't a prayer in the Vuelta. To me, that devalues the GTs a little bit.

REBELSAFC

I would ban the power meters but not the race radios.When they were banned a few years ago at the Tour it led to even more conservative/cautious racing.....no one was let go because they were afraid the race would get away from the peleton.

I would reduce the number of riders in teams though. Teams of six or seven would lead to much improved racing with no single team able to control things.

pelevin

godtabh wrote: »

I disagree. Let them ride however they want. They aren't here to entertain us they are their to win. Entertaining us is down the list.

If audience figures on tv and roadside plummetted with the continuation of very frustrating and boring, totally controlled racing like the mountains of this year's Tour, I'd say you'd find entertainment or lack of might start to look quite important the list in what matters to the sport.

pelevin

lennymc wrote: »

and carbon. and wheels. and and and.

Well if we want to simplfy the argument to stupid levels, since bicycles preceded motorbikes and since motorbikes of course are a technological on bicycles, then pro-cyclists should be allowed use motorbikes as otherwise one is ignorantly standing in the way of progress.

mossym

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was up to me I'd ban power meters, race radio and limit the number of team cars. Yes, it's about winning, but pretty much every sport has restrictions on equipment to level the playing field or make the spectacle compelling. So does cycling, and this would just be another.

it's already level. every team can use power meters. it doesn't get any more level than that

Deleted User wrote: »

Those with long memories may remember Stephen Roche's heroics at La Plagne in 1987. As it stands that sort of drama can never happen again in professional cycling, which is a shame.

why on earth can it not happen again. roche, even though he had no meter to tell him what his watts were, did one of two things: rode right to the limit of what his level of fitness was, i.e. his max watts, or else he found a little bit more and exceeded what he believed to be his max watts.

having a power meter on the bike stops neither of those things happening again. what stops them is a rider seeing the number on his computer and being scared he doesn't have any more to give. and that fear isn't based on power meters, it's based on the risk that he doesn't have the extra bit to give, explodes, and doesn't deliver for the team.

on the flip side, maybe somone should ask quintana if he thinks a PM was responsible for his poor showing at the TdF. was he in better shape than froome but just couldn't show it cause his PM wouldn't let him? yeah right

and realistically, quintana is calling for this as PM's are allowing guys to ride close to the edge, taking away some of the advantage he has as a natural climber who grew up on the climbs. maybe the others can argue he has an unfair advantage given where he grew up so if wants PM's banned then anyone who grew up at altitude shouldn't be allowed race due to their advantage too.

stupidly daft argument , especially when there has been pretty evident proof that reducing team sizes and race radio's have a positive effect. if you do down the PM route, then you also have to remove HR sensors, speed sensors, cadence sensors, as an approximation for power can be obtained from every one of them

Lumen

People aren't machines, power meters only capture one element of human performance.

Anyone who has raced or trained with a power meter knows this.

Quintana is presumably moaning because he's losing (i'm not inviting spoilers).

pelevin

Lumen wrote: »

Quintana is presumably moaning because he's losing (i'm not inviting spoilers).

Spoilers are irrelevant since Quintana is leading since yesterday, and so is not moaning because he is losing.

pelevin

People saying power meters are more or less irrelevant or besides the point. Wout Poels said during the Tour how he and the Sky team ride just below threshold in the mountains. How this enables them to be able to control the racing and respond to any attacks that do happen. He said he would not like to ride against Sky and how yes it's probably boring to watch. Not really in the camp of wanting it to be easier to have boring controlled racing myself.

lennymc

Ban technology is rubbish. If a team has the balls to attack sky en masse they will blow them out of the water. Instead most teams sit in skys wheels and try bugger all because they are afraid of not winning.

Remember Garmin in 2012?

" That year, on Stage 9, Garmin attacked almost from the gun, sending a flurry of high-caliber riders up the road in successive moves that forced Sky to chase.

The ferocity of Garmin’s attack clearly caught Sky by surprise. Under the effort of the chase, Richie Porte, one of Froome’s best lieutenants, cracked and lost 18 minutes—the best finish of Sky’s domestiques that day. Vasil Kiryienka, a rouleur fine enough to win last year’s World Time Trial Championship, blew up so bad he finished outside the time limit."

http://www.bicycling.com/racing/tour-de-france/the-killer-tactic-that-would-destroy-froome-and-team-sky

pelevin

So you're picking an example of free uncontrolled racing which is great to watch as an argument in favour of why it should be easier to have controlled racing - as shown with Poels, Sky's best domestique in the '16 Tour, saying how they ride in this scientific manner just below threshold to reduce the variables of what can happen. Also one stage in 4 years is the example of how it's possible to blow Sky out of the water. At that kind of frequency rate it must be easy.
I saw Dan Martin try very hard on a number of occasions in ths year's Tour to attack Sky. He got reeled in without fuss every time. Apparently he must have no balls. Blow people out of the water like Landa, on his day one of the best in the world, who are not even trying to stay up in GC every day? All it takes is attitude. And maybe a load of drugs.

Why anyone would actually have an emotional response in favour of power meters baffles me. "It's the power meters for me that make racing so great for me." What the hell is the attachment about? People's pleasure is genuinely bound up in the cyclists having such tools? Even if the lack of them didn't improve things, what would be the loss anyway? It'd hardly make the spectacle worse.

terrydel

godtabh wrote: »

I disagree. Let them ride however they want. They aren't here to entertain us they are their to win. Entertaining us is down the list.

If they aren't entertaining people, then they wont be making nearly as good a living from it.

godtabh

terrydel wrote: »

If they aren't entertaining people, then they wont be making nearly as good a living from it.

Yes they will. Sponsorship will see them happy.

Thought you didnt know what a PM was?

terrydel

godtabh wrote: »

Yes they will. Sponsorship will see them happy.

Thought you didnt know what a PM was?

You don't understand how sponsorship works do you?
Check the time on my post, it was after my reply in the previous thread, first Ive seen of this thread.
Don't be such a snob and expect everyone to be reading your mind.

godtabh

terrydel wrote: »

You don't understand how sponsorship works do you?
Check the time on my post, it was after my reply in the previous thread, first Ive seen of this thread.
Don't be such a snob and expect everyone to be reading your mind.

Has my lack of smiley face upset you? I apologize.

A sponsor will back a winner. A winner is more likely to attract higher end brands or brands willing to pay more for sponsorship. A sponsor wont care if the their athlete wins like Froome or Nibali as long as they win. Froome or Nibali are just interested in winning.

Stages deal with Sky is one of the reasons there has been a take off in low cost left only power meters.

terrydel

godtabh wrote: »

Has my lack of smiley face upset you? I apologize.

A sponsor will back a winner. A winner is more likely to attract higher end brands or brands willing to pay more for sponsorship. A sponsor wont care if the their athlete wins like Froome or Nibali as long as they win. Froome or Nibali are just interested in winning.

Stages deal with Sky is one of the reasons there has been a take off in low cost left only power meters.

Sponsors pay more if people are interested and watching, if a sport is dull and boring and people lose interest/stop watching, sponsorship income drops massively.
Sponsors back winners IF they have an audience.

lennymc

pelevin wrote: »

So you're picking an example of free uncontrolled racing which is great to watch as an argument in favour of why it should be easier to have controlled racing

Nope, I'm saying banning technology as a means of competing with sky or giving exciting racing is rubbish. Quintana said 'they make you race more cautiously'. I gave an example of where a team tactic was used to counter team sky's tactics, to great effect and two of the most exciting moments in this year's tour were Froome's comedy cycling downhill (were Quintana tactically dropped the ball - something he is quite prone to) and when the world champion and yellow jersey attacked the peloton on a flat sprinters stage.

Also, yesterday's race was an example of where a power meter can contribute to a race - froome paced himself up a hill he blew on before, using power. The last few KM were quite exciting imho - the would he/wouldnt he get back on.

Just to clarify, I have no particular love for sky or any other team

Lumen

I suspect any experienced cyclist who has trained extensively with power could ride quite accurately just under threshold without needing to look at their head unit. That's certainly my own experience, maybe it's different in the cut and thrust of a pro race.

I think maybe that improvements in sports science have made the difference. People avoid mad attacks not because they have a power meter, but because human physiology is better understood.

Kaisr Sose

Let's not get carried away by banning the bike from bike races :-)

magicbastarder

what sort of computer giving feedback *would* be generally considered too much help for a cyclist? one with the route; distances and gradients programmed in, and telling the cyclist which is the best gear to select a few seconds beforehand, for example?
not that an experienced cyclist should need this, but it would generally be regarded as unfair, yeah?

Cookie_Monster

Banning the radio and clearing out a lot of the support cars would be more useful and interesting IMO, ban power meters and riders will just use heart rate data instead