Fixed term contracts

Love2love

Quick one for you guys.

Fixed term contracts. I am coming close to the end of my second fixed term contract, both of which have been for a 1 year duration. I will be signed a new contract next week. Should this be a permanent contract? I'm hearing conflicting things. One said once I have completed 2 fixed term contracts then it must be permanent and another saying that it's only on completion of 4 years. Citizen's information says:

[HTML]Employees may not be employed on a series of fixed-term contracts indefinitely. There are 2 possible situations where this arises as follows:

If an employee whose employment started before 14 July 2003 has completed 3 years’ continuous service as a fixed-term employee, the employer may renew their fixed-term contract only once for a period of no more than 1 year.
If an employee whose employment started after 14 July 2003 has been employed on 2 or more continuous fixed-term contracts, the total duration of those contracts may not exceed 4 years.[/HTML]

I would assume that would be 4 years, no?

davo10

Love2love wrote: »

Quick one for you guys.

Fixed term contracts. I am coming close to the end of my second fixed term contract, both of which have been for a 1 year duration. I will be signed a new contract next week. Should this be a permanent contract? I'm hearing conflicting things. One said once I have completed 2 fixed term contracts then it must be permanent and another saying that it's only on completion of 4 years. Citizen's information says:

[HTML]Employees may not be employed on a series of fixed-term contracts indefinitely. There are 2 possible situations where this arises as follows:

If an employee whose employment started before 14 July 2003 has completed 3 years’ continuous service as a fixed-term employee, the employer may renew their fixed-term contract only once for a period of no more than 1 year.
If an employee whose employment started after 14 July 2003 has been employed on 2 or more continuous fixed-term contracts, the total duration of those contracts may not exceed 4 years.[/HTML]

I would assume that would be 4 years, no?

You can continue to be employed on fixed term contracts for a period not exceeding 4 years.

Mrs OBumble

It's 4 years alright, based on that law.

But even some of the harder-assed agencies pay redundancy if you've been on fixed term contracts for more than 2 years.

livedadream

when you are there four years, and they try to renew it then is a permenancy issue,

your covered by unfair dismissals and redundancy so dont worry.

davo10

livedadream wrote: »

when you are there four years, and they try to renew it then is a permenancy issue,

your covered by unfair dismissals and redundancy so dont worry.

You are not covered by unfair dismissal legislation if it is specifically excluded in the terms of the contract. That is the point of using fixed term contracts.


Dismissal

When an employee is dismissed at the end of the contract the unfair dismissals legislation applies as normal unless the employer has availed of the provision to exclude the operation of the legislation. To avail of that provision, the employer must put the contract in writing. The employer must include a clause stating that the Unfair Dismissals Acts 1977–2007 will not apply where the only reason for ending the contract is the expiry of the fixed term, or the completion of the specified purpose. Both the employer and the employee must sign the contract.

Redundancy
An employee who has worked continuously for at least 104 weeks under a fixed-term or specified purpose contract may qualify for a redundancy payment when the contract ends.

In regard to redundancy, the "may" in this paragraph is important, it is not a guaranteed entitlement.

livedadream

davo10 wrote: »

You are not covered by unfair dismissal legislation if it is specifically excluded in the terms of the contract. That is the point of using fixed term contracts.

no its not its to have flexible working.

davo10 wrote: »

When an employee is dismissed at the end of the contract the unfair dismissals legislation applies as normal unless the employer has availed of the provision to exclude the operation of the legislation. To avail of that provision, the employer must put the contract in writing. The employer must include a clause stating that the Unfair Dismissals Acts 1977–2007 will not apply where the only reason for ending the contract is the expiry of the fixed term, or the completion of the specified purpose. Both the employer and the employee must sign the contract.

Redundancy
An employee who has worked continuously for at least 104 weeks under a fixed-term or specified purpose contract may qualify for a redundancy payment when the contract ends.

In regard to redundancy, the "may" in this paragraph is important, it is not a guaranteed entitlement.

dude i'm not getting into a back and forth with you but copying and pasting from the citizens advise is slightly different to the years of employment law i have specialised in, but okay,

the EAT would disagree with you, if you are there continuously for 13 months you are covered by unfair dismissals, what the CA is referring to is being dismissed at the end of the fixed term contract your contract ends you leave, you cant claim it was unfair.

read your own post, When an employee is dismissed at the end of the contract the unfair dismissals legislation applies as normal unless they employ....The employer must include a clause stating that the Unfair Dismissals Acts 1977–2007 will not apply where the only reason for ending the contract is the expiry of the fixed term, or the completion of the specified purpose

if you are sacked before the end of a fixed term contract coz you looked at someone wrong and they complained and you got sacked and think it was unfair then you can still take a case (if you are there long enough and it wasnt done correctly obvs). it ending coz the project or contract ends is different.

i referred to statutory redundancy not company paid entitlements.

davo10

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1977/act/10/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

Op is at the end of the contract and if he/she signs another one the Act will not apply at the end of that. I think we are saying the same thing except I'm talking about the end of his contract and you are talking about dismissal during it.

livedadream

davo10 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1977/act/10/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

Op is at the end of the contract.

yes i can read thanks Dave. so you can confirm you were wrong then. thanks.

OP posted about rolling fixed term contracts. they asked about permanency which is a common worry of employees on FTC, she is covered by unfair dismissals because she has worked there for two years, thats a fact, i posted about redundancy and unfair dismissals because again its a common worry about FTC employees to lay her mind at rest.

you edited you post so let me add, you are wrong, the unfair dismissals applies to her getting fired/terminated/sacked whatever you want to call it as long as its not at the end of her FTC and for the reason of her contract ending, anything other than that, and she can claim for Unfair dismissals.

its pretty simples mate.

work ends, contract ends- fine
work stays, contract still in date she gets fired before that for any reason (grievance, the whim of a HR manager) not fine.

livedadream

davo10 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1977/act/10/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

Op is at the end of the contract and if he/she signs another one the Act will not apply at the end of that. I think we are saying the same thing except I'm talking about the end of his contract and you are talking about dismissal during it.

okay you've edited you post three times while i was typing so id respond to this one.

yes i am referring to all the days she works other than her last one.

you dont get dismissed from a FTC, because it has an end date. its pretty basic.

davo10

livedadream wrote: »

yes i can read thanks Dave. so you can confirm you were wrong then. thanks.

OP posted about rolling fixed term contracts. they asked about permanency which is a common worry of employees on FTC, she is covered by unfair dismissals because she has worked there for two years, thats a fact, i posted about redundancy and unfair dismissals because again its a common worry about FTC employees to lay her mind at rest.

you edited you post so let me add, you are wrong, the unfair dismissals applies to her getting fired/terminated/sacked whatever you want to call it as long as its not at the end of her FTC and for the reason of her contract ending, anything other than that, and she can claim for Unfair dismissals.

its pretty simples mate.

work ends, contract ends- fine
work stays, contract still in date she gets fired before that for any reason (grievance, the whim of a HR manager) not fine.

No need to b condescending. Wrong about?

I thought from your posts you worked in HR, that's a long long way short of "specialising in employment law", judging by a lot of threads on boards a considerable proportion of HR personnel are clueless, I will of course take that back if you confirm you are a qualified solicitor specialising in employment law.

Citizens advice website, though not exhaustive does tend to be accurate and good at highlighting the main points when it comes to citizens rights. If there is something wrong in the passage I copied from it, I'd appreciate if you would point it out.

Flexible working = employers being able to employ and release without worry of claim for B fair dismissal.

Except it isn't quite as simple as you make it out to be, mate. FTC can have a clause allowing either party to terminate the fixed contract early giving defined notice. If this clause is in the contract and the employee has agreed to it when signing, then th contract can be terminated early by the employer. None of this is relevant to the op's position nor question but th op should read the old and new contracts carefully, the op asked about permanancy after end of fixed term contract, I posted that the UDA does not apply, is that wrong?

Love2love

Thanks so much for the replies guys!

I have no doubt that I will continue to work here for the forseeable future but as it is a state funded position, my actual employers don't really have the control on this. They can say one thing and our funders another! :rolleyes:

However, my boss said this morning that it will be a permanent contract and that she has spoke to our funders. I suppose I will see when I sign the actual contract though!

livedadream

Love2love wrote: »

Thanks so much for the replies guys!

I have no doubt that I will continue to work here for the forseeable future but as it is a state funded position, my actual employers don't really have the control on this. They can say one thing and our funders another! :rolleyes:

However, my boss said this morning that it will be a permanent contract and that she has spoke to our funders. I suppose I will see when I sign the actual contract though!

congrats and best of luck with it!