What happens to male chicks in the Irish egg industry?

Worztron

Hi.

What happens to male chicks in the Irish egg industry? Do they suffer the same fate as other places?

It seems that regardless of whether the hens are free-range / battery / etc. -- the poor male chicks suffer the same end.

This is horrific.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/chicks-on-conveyor-belt-to-death-135339.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326168/Secret-footage-shows-millions-British-chicks-killed-year.html

L1011

Anywhere working to an industrial scale will destroy the male chicks. Very small scale suppliers may not but you'll pay through the nose as a result.

Worztron

L1011 wrote: »

Anywhere working to an industrial scale will destroy the male chicks. Very small scale suppliers may not but you'll pay through the nose as a result.

That is seriously messed up.

Are the egg industry male chicks never the chicken on peoples plate? Or are these chicken eaten from a different breed of chicken?

OldNotWIse

Worztron wrote: »

That is seriously messed up.

Are the egg industry male chicks never the chicken on peoples plate? Or are these chicken eaten from a different breed of chicken?

As far as I know, male chicks are disposed of straight away. Female ones are kept for laying for a short while, and when their egg production declines they then become "table hens"

Chromosphere

While I hate to say this, it's most likely they end up as pet food ingredient.

Water John

Two diff breeds entirely. you could not fatten a high yielding egg laying breed.

Same happens with male goats of the dairy breeds.

OldNotWIse

http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_broiler.html

Worztron

I feel sick.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/hatched-discarded-gassed-what-happens-to-male-chicks-in-the-uk-10088509.html

Water John

The skill of sexing chicks was developed in Japan in the 1940's. Specialist skill with high wages.
Gassing would be humane.
Sort a knew 'males don't lay eggs'.

OldNotWIse

Worztron wrote: »

I feel sick.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/hatched-discarded-gassed-what-happens-to-male-chicks-in-the-uk-10088509.html

So sad. I only eat eggs from the farm across the road. They have their own hens plus a few ex batt girls that I rescued. They really are "free range" to the extent that I have to shoo them out of my garden sometimes lol. They are allowed to live out their lives (though I suspect this is because the farmer doesn't know which ones are laying and which have stopped - he's a mean ol' git who wouldn't like to feed anything that doesn't give him a "return". Anyway, the eggs are delicious, I love them

Worztron

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarian/comments/50j0jn/10_top_reasons_to_stop_eating_eggs/

Worztron

Water John wrote: »

The skill of sexing chicks was developed in Japan in the 1940's. Specialist skill with high wages.
Gassing would be humane.
Sort a knew 'males don't lay eggs'.

Killing billions of new born chicks each year is not humane.

Worztron

Picture these little fellas being killed because they are mere "byproducts" of the egg industry. https://i.imgur.com/GvHNvSy.mp4

OldNotWIse

Worztron wrote: »

Killing billions of new born chicks each year is not humane.

I agree, but I suspect the poster meant the more humane (less inhumane?) method as opposed to being fúcked into a grinder fully conscious They are babies :mad:

maximum12

Saw a programme recently where researchers have come up with a way to sex the eggs at the embryonic stage. Described here: https://munchies.vice.com/en/articles/a-scientist-has-figured-out-how-to-determine-chickens-sex-before-they-hatch

OldNotWIse

maximum12 wrote: »

Saw a programme recently where researchers have come up with a way to sex the eggs at the embryonic stage. Described here: https://munchies.vice.com/en/articles/a-scientist-has-figured-out-how-to-determine-chickens-sex-before-they-hatch

What about pro-life vegans?

I'll get my coat :pac:

Worztron

On each egg carton they should have the message: "All male chicks born were killed hours after hatching via [insert horrific method here]." In clear bold text. Imagine how much egg sales would plummet.

OldNotWIse

Worztron wrote: »

On each egg carton they should have the message: "All male chicks born were killed hours after hatching via [insert horrific method here]." In clear bold text. Imagine how much egg sales would plummet.

Except they wouldn't. Cognitive dissonance. People generally don't care, or only care about some things and not others.

http://www.people.com/article/man-kills-ducklings-lawnmower

cowboyBuilder

Worztron wrote: »

Hi.

What happens to male chicks in the Irish egg industry? Do they suffer the same fate as other places?

It seems that regardless of whether the hens are free-range / battery / etc. -- the poor male chicks suffer the same end.

This is horrific.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/chicks-on-conveyor-belt-to-death-135339.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326168/Secret-footage-shows-millions-British-chicks-killed-year.html

:(

Jesus, I feel sick.

Musketeer4

As with the bull calf thread, do poultry farmers not have the means of ensuring only hen chicks are hatched like the way dairy farms use sex semen to ensure only cow calfs are born? Does this technology exist for poultry?

Surely it would make sense to implement such technology. If say 50ish% of hatchlings are male chicks then that's a lot of energy and investment into hatching eggs that are ultimately only going to end up as a waste product. Very inefficient. Or perhaps they are using sexed semen but there is always some residual level of waste male chicks produced.

OldNotWIse

It seems that not many people even know about this side of the injury. There should be more awareness raised around it. I know even as a vegetarian I never realised what was involved. It makes sense now but I simply didn't think. If someone had asked me what I thought happened to them I might have figured it out. Same with milk. I never had an issue with it because I just figured well it comes from cows, but only later thought, hang on....it comes from cows that have had babies....what do the babies drink if we drink their milk? What happens to the babies? And then you're into the veal industry and the dairy industry that keeps cows in a constant cycle of gestation, rape racks, taking their calves from them etc. But, I simply didn't consider it. I just thought, well...milk comes from a cow, eggs come from a chicken. if I don't eat the cow or the chicken then I'm alright.

OldNotWIse

Musketeer4 wrote: »

As with the bull calf thread, do poultry farmers not have the means of ensuring only hen chicks are hatched like the way dairy farms use sex semen to ensure only cow calfs are born? Does this technology exist for poultry?

Surely it would make sense to implement such technology. If say 50ish% of hatchlings are male chicks then that's a lot of energy and investment into hatching eggs that are ultimately only going to end up as a waste product. Very inefficient. Or perhaps they are using sexed semen but there is always some residual level of waste male chicks produced.

Can they really do this?

cowboyBuilder

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It seems that not many people even know about this side of the injury. There should be more awareness raised around it. I know even as a vegetarian I never realised what was involved. It makes sense now but I simply didn't think. If someone had asked me what I thought happened to them I might have figured it out. Same with milk. I never had an issue with it because I just figured well it comes from cows, but only later thought, hang on....it comes from cows that have had babies....what do the babies drink if we drink their milk? What happens to the babies? And then you're into the veal industry and the dairy industry that keeps cows in a constant cycle of gestation, rape racks, taking their calves from them etc. But, I simply didn't consider it. I just thought, well...milk comes from a cow, eggs come from a chicken. if I don't eat the cow or the chicken then I'm alright.

Exactly, drinking a glass of milk is as wrong as eating steak ..

Yet I still do it .. :mad:

Tar.Aldarion

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Exactly, drinking a glass of milk is as wrong as eating steak ..

Yet I still do it .. :mad:

Discovering the chicken grindings really pushed me to be vegan.

Musketeer4

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Can they really do this?

Yes, this technology exists and it is now becoming industry standard.Its a great idea because it prevents bull calfs from being born and thereby increases the efficiency of the farm.

OldNotWIse

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Yes, this technology exists and it is now becoming industry standard.Its a great idea because it prevents bull calfs from being born and thereby increases the efficiency of the farm.

Though presumably the female calves are still taken from their mother so that the milk can be sold?

Musketeer4

Of course.

Water John

Sexed semen though around a good while, is not used extensively.
Modern dairy cows would have enough milk for 8/10 calves and are not very maternal.

Musketeer4

But production of bull calves is still essentially a waste byproduct because they are no use to the dairy herd. Would there not be greater productivity to be had by producing only female calves?

Water John

Sexed semen has a lower conception rate.
A dairy herd only needs about 20/25% replacement rate.
The rest of the calves are raised as beef.

Worztron

Water John wrote: »

Sexed semen though around a good while, is not used extensively.
Modern dairy cows would have enough milk for 8/10 calves and are not very maternal.

"not very maternal"

Sounds like bs right there.

Musketeer4

Worztron wrote: »

"not very maternal"

Sounds like bs right there.

Yeah I call bs on that too. Go to walk across a field with cows and newborn calfs and you'd be lucky to make it to the far ditch. Cows with newborn calves are very dangerous.

Water John

Yeah, but if they are separated a few hours in the early days, the cow has forgotten about the calf.

OldNotWIse

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, but if they are separated a few hours in the early days, the cow has forgotten about the calf.

How do you know this?

Savvy student

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, but if they are separated a few hours in the early days, the cow has forgotten about the calf.

I'm not sure what magical farms you've been visiting but from my experience on farms, both mother and calf bawl and call to each other for days, even weeks. I've even seen a couple of mothers make an attempt to escape/get to their young. Their cries are heartbreaking...

Chuchote

OldNotWIse wrote: »

As far as I know, male chicks are disposed of straight away. Female ones are kept for laying for a short while, and when their egg production declines they then become "table hens"

No need to 'dispose of' chicks in cruel ways, though.

_Brian

Savvy student wrote: »

I'm not sure what magical farms you've been visiting but from my experience on farms, both mother and calf bawl and call to each other for days, even weeks. I've even seen a couple of mothers make an attempt to escape/get to their young. Their cries are heartbreaking...

Three to four days, weeks - no it never takes weeks.

ciara155

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It seems that not many people even know about this side of the injury. There should be more awareness raised around it. I know even as a vegetarian I never realised what was involved. It makes sense now but I simply didn't think. If someone had asked me what I thought happened to them I might have figured it out. Same with milk. I never had an issue with it because I just figured well it comes from cows, but only later thought, hang on....it comes from cows that have had babies....what do the babies drink if we drink their milk? What happens to the babies? And then you're into the veal industry and the dairy industry that keeps cows in a constant cycle of gestation, rape racks, taking their calves from them etc. But, I simply didn't consider it. I just thought, well...milk comes from a cow, eggs come from a chicken. if I don't eat the cow or the chicken then I'm alright.

Honestly, the meat/dairy/egg industry don't want you knowing what happens because they make a profit from this, they really don't care. Some farmers do care about the welfare of their animals but certainly not about the rights of the animals. The government too, they fund these industry's billions because they make a profit from people buying the product. it's all supply and demand and it seems more people are finally realising the cruelty in these industry's.

joeKel73

Does anyone know of any suppliers of free range eggs that don't cull the male chicks?

Of course the added land use and feed costs would have to be factored into the costs but I'd be happy to pay for that. Since chick culling is generally not talked about or mentioned, it's very to find out who's doing what...

padair

J o e wrote: »

Does anyone know of any suppliers of free range eggs that don't cull the male chicks?

Of course the added land use and feed costs would have to be factored into the costs but I'd be happy to pay for that. Since chick culling is generally not talked about or mentioned, it's very to find out who's doing what...

There is a new technique that will soon start to be used. Farms are able to scan the egg and can tell the sex of the chick before it has hatched. If it's male, it does not make it past egg and gets sold in supermarkets.

joeKel73

padair wrote: »

There is a new technique that will soon start to be used. Farms are able to scan the egg and can tell the sex of the chick before it has hatched. If it's male, it does not make it past egg and gets sold in supermarkets.

Yeah that sounds great. In the interim it's hard to know who's doing what though...

OldNotWIse

padair wrote: »

There is a new technique that will soon start to be used. Farms are able to scan the egg and can tell the sex of the chick before it has hatched. If it's male, it does not make it past egg and gets sold in supermarkets.

Pardon my ignorance, I thought the eggs we eat are unfertilized. Will they be scanning fertilized eggs and selling male ones to shops? Would we not be eating chicken foetus then? I feel like my head is spinning here lol

Musketeer4

99% will cull the male chicks. They are no good for meat so are effectively a byproduct.

joeKel73

Musketeer4 wrote: »

99% will cull the male chicks. They are no good for meat so are effectively a byproduct.

Yeah but where to find the 1%?

joeKel73

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, I thought the eggs we eat are unfertilized. Will they be scanning fertilized eggs and selling male ones to shops? Would we not be eating chicken foetus then? I feel like my head is spinning here lol

Yea padair has mixed up two processes a bit there. With the new system they will be able to tell the sex of the egg at the hatchery - fertilized eggs for the purpose of producing chicks.

The eggs we eat are not fertilised (no rooster involved) and are produced for human consumption.

The issue is that for every egg-laying female that hatches, there is about the same amount of male chicks that get culled as they are of no value to the industry.