Lakeland terrier from pet shop

The Darkroom

Hi all, buying a Lakeland terrier from pet shop tomorrow in Dundalk . He's a one year old and not a pup so I doubt I'll ever see the mother. According to the pet shop manager he's fully bred and the owner Harry is the man who breeds them himself for years so I can trust its fully bred.

I don't know much about dogs and breeding and all that.

He wants €500 without papers or €650 with papers.

Have you any advice at all?

VonVix

Leave well alone, in my opinion. Too many questions that I would have and none would be satisfied in circumstances like this, a person can say anything they want about a dog and inexperienced buyers would easily believe it.

If you pay the €650 you run the risk of never seeing the papers. Even then, you don't know the background of this dog, behavioural issues (separation anxiety? Resource guarding? Nipping? Leash reactivity?), whether he is housetrained or not, where he was raised (in a shed? In a home? Is he good with other dogs? People? Kids?), why is he being rehomed at a year old? Where was he before you ever set your eyes on him? Has he ever had to go to the vet for health issues? Has any prior training been done with him? If there are problems, would you be willing to put in the work to solve them?

€650 is the same amount you would pay for a puppy (so I think the dog you are looking at would be seriously over priced if not a titled dog), easily from a show winning/competing background, one where you can see where the dog was raised and who the parents were, if any relevant health tests were carried out, vet history, a far more transparent circumstance. If I were looking for an adult dog of a specific breed, I would either try to find them in a rescue, or find a proven breeder who shows/competes with their dogs and see if they have any older stock/dogs returned to them that they are rehoming, rather than a semi-fishy pet shop situation, assuming you do not know these people before ever considering this dog.

Just my 2 cents. I put in a heck of a lot of research and planning in to getting dogs of a specific breed, in addition to working closely with a rescue. There isn't enough education out there when it comes to how to buy from a proper breeder... properly.

One_Of_Shanks

Buying a dog from a pet store is a bad idea. And if for no other reason than you're only encouraging them to keep doing it.

If the dog is age 1 now then how has the last 12 months of his life been?

Because you're taking on all that wee dogs baggage.
Where has he been living? How has he been treated? Has he been socialised with other dogs? Is he used to kids?
Toilet training?
Bad habits? Did he come from a puppy farm?

Do you know any of this stuff?

Tranceypoo

Yes. Run a mile in the other direction, with your money still in your wallet

DBB

Jeepers op.... Harry is not popular amongst doggy folk for selling pups and dogs from his pet shops. You will be asked to sign a disclaimer absolving the pet shop from pretty much all meaningful responsibility once you've handed over your money. Seriously not recommended.
If you want a genuine lakeland from a genuine, reputable source, or indeed any purebred dog, €650 would go a long, long way to buying it... Its well, well over the odds to pay for a 1 year old dog of unknown history, and €500 is way, way over the odds for a dog of unknown history with no papers.
It is extremely inadvisable to buy dogs from pet shops, for so many reasons, chief amongst them being that no reputable breeder would dream of allowing their pups to be sold via pet shops, because as the IKC Chairman told me, "it breaks the link between breeder and owner". In other words, and the IKC will tell you this, dogs sold through pet shops are, by definition, puppy farmed or back-yard bred... What an elegant front the pet shops are for selling dodgy dogs at vastly inflated prices... They've been doing it for years, much to the horror of the IKC, Louth SPCA, ISPCA, local rescue organisations, the local veterinary clinics, local trainers and behaviourists.
I worked in Louth for many years with dogs op... The dogs that came from those pet shops cropped up again and again and again because of health issues, and particularly because of behavioural issues.
Take this as a very well-intentioned warning op. Caveat emptor.

Bunnyslippers

Agree with all the above, run screaming for the hills, this guy is waiting for someone to come along with a load of cash and feel sorry for this dog. God knows what has happened to this dog in the last year, how do you know the owner of the shop bred it? - it is more likely a puppy farm puppy that has failed to be sold and someone has bought it for very little and is now selling for a bomb! I very much doubt you'll see any papers or at least real papers, he'll take your money and be laughing all the way to the bank!

As others have said you could buy a top pedigree papered puppy from a proper breeder for this kind of money, a pet shop is the last place to buy a dog, or in this case pay a fortune to rescue one that could have a million behavioural and health issues and end up causing you nothing but heartache and costing you a fortune! I know it's hard to walk away when you fall for a dog but paying any money for this pup on a whim is only lining back yard breeders or puppy farmers pockets to then keep doing it.

Research research research, if you want a good pedigree pup find a good breeder, either go through a breed society or visit a breed show and get talking to people who know the breed.

The Darkroom

Thank you for the replies. I'm glad I researched this. I was dead set on an Irish terrier, Lakeland terrier or Golden retriever.

But now we are going for the Retriever.

My gut instincts was telling me something wasn't right about this sales guy. The vibes he gave me just wasn't right. He was saying I was getting it at a good price considering they're £850 online. So I looked on online but it was €850 euros not sterling pound and was a pup with papers whose mother could be seen.

My sister bought a westie from him before who was always getting sick and died 6 months later and was found to have a tumour in its stomach. Vet claimed it was puppy farmed. He also claimed to have papers for the dog but after a lot of back and forth over the 6 months she never saw the papers.

She called me and pleaded with me not to buy from him.

Thanks again, I've since taken to done deal for private breeder with dam and sire to be seen as well as IKc registered papers.

DBB

Your sister's experience was not an isolated one op... Poor little Westie, that must've been traumatic for your sister too.
Ok... IKC papers are only a small part of the jigsaw. It's imperative not only to see the mother, but to meet her, handle her, cuddle her, really get a feeling for her temperament and mental soundness, because she plays a huge role in how the pups will turn out.
It is usually more difficult to meet dad, and not meeting him probably shouldn't a deal-breaker if all else is good... But if you can meet him, just like you did with the dam, get to know him!
Unless they go to huge lengths to get visitors in and generally expose their pups to a bit of hustle and bustle, I'd tend to avoid breeders (of any breed) that live in a quiet, rural home.
I'd also avoid breeders who raise their pups exclusively in a shed. All pups destined for the pet market should know what living inside the house is all about. Shed-raised pups tend to develop fear issues with strangers and visitors to the home, the noise of household appliances, they're way behind on their housetraining, and they're just not as behaviourally advanced as pups reared, or at least partially reared, inside the home.
Ideally, you want the breeder to have kids, or to have had kids visit the pups regularly.
Retrievers are a bit prone to food-guarding... Make sure the breeder isn't feeding all pups from the one bowl (it promotes food-guarding), and see how the pups react when you try to take food and chew treats from them.
Be aware that because they're so popular, Retrievers have been irresponsibly produced by some chancers, causing some bad health issues, particularly joint issues. Similarly, as discussed above, some behavioural problems have crept in amongst some lines.
Tk123 on this forum is the local Retriever guru, I'm sure she can point you in the direction of a good breeder, hopefully she'll be along to this thread to give you some advice

The Darkroom

Yeah my sister was really traumatised as she really loved Lilly a lot only for that to happen to her. I'm going to take all your points and ask the golden retriever breeder all these questions before going down.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to PM me and reply here with plenty of advice.

I really think now the golden retriever will be the good choice providing it meets all the criteria set out by yourselves.

Does anyone know of any dog trainers in Dundalk or blackrock area? Thanks.

VonVix

You're very lucky you came here first, The Darkroom, a heck of a lot of people end up having to learn from their mistakes. There are a lot of top notch people here who know what they're talking about, definitely ask here about anything doggy related before jumping headfirst into a decision.

Also, avoid Done Deal, you'll essentially be throwing yourself into a pit of puppy farmers!

borderlinemeath

OP, you dodged a bullet by avoiding that terrier. As with everybody who has posted above, pet shop pups/dogs are to be avoided like the plague.

Done deal is also full of shysters, badly bred pups who are almost always the product of unhealthy dogs or at the very least dogs that aren't tested for breed specific traits that can be passed on to their offspring. The things to look out for are all the photos in an outdoor setting - the pups aren't allowed indoors so they haven't been socialised and acclimatised to household noises. Even if there's a few indoor photos, puppy farmers are masters of deception and will bring litters to their homes or relatives homes to give the illusion of home raised pups.

Also, it's a big difference between an Irish terrier and a golden retriever! Is there traits you like or want in both dogs? Or what is the appeal?

ShaShaBear

So glad you managed to dodge the pet shop in Dundalk OP. I really did think they would have been shut down now but I guess not :mad:

Knine

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Also, it's a big difference between an Irish terrier and a golden retriever! Is there traits you like or want in both dogs? Or what is the appeal?

+1 Both Lakeland & Irish Terriers are very different then a Golden Retriever. Both of these terriers can be very fiery. I would imagine the Lakeland in question did not make the grade as a Show Dog. Some great advice above.

DBB

Knine wrote: »

+1 Both Lakeland & Irish Terriers are very different then a Golden Retriever. Both of these terriers can be very fiery. I would imagine the Lakeland in question did not make the grade as a Show Dog. Some great advice above.

I worked with a few dogs from the same source that were sold because they didn't make the grade for showing (wellll... That's what the buyers were told anyway )... These were dogs now, whose breeder is very successful in the show ring... Whether their conformation wasn't right, I don't know, but their temperaments were awful... Some really human-aggressive ones amongst them

Knine

DBB wrote: »

I worked with a few dogs from the same source that were sold because they didn't make the grade for showing (wellll... That's what the buyers were told anyway )... These were dogs now, whose breeder is very successful in the show ring... Whether their conformation wasn't right, I don't know, but their temperaments were awful... Some really human-aggressive ones amongst them

Human aggressive dogs would definitely not make the grade. Most of the terriers I see from that source would be definitely dog aggressive. Not that unusual for those breeds however human aggressive terriers being sold to the unsuspecting public is disgraceful.

My daughter used to regularly show several of those terrier breeds & although you could not have them near other dogs, they were fantastic with people & had wonderful personalities. They were from a different kennels though.

There are not many Lakelands shown. I will be curious to see if any of the young dogs are missing at the next few shows.

Also forgot to mention to the OP there is a huge amount of coat work needed on both Irish & Lakelands.

Bunnyslippers

Well done for choosing wisely! I'd also advise not buying from donedeal, especially from a breeder who has both sire and dam, often folk have bought 2 dogs with no clue what they are doing, no health tests like hip and elbows which should be done in retrievers, plus eyes I think, and because one dog has nuts the other a uterus they put them together to get cute puppies to make money! No clue as to wether the dogs suit each other temperament or conformation wise etc or blood line wise, so best to find a really good breeder that others reccomend.
You may have to go on a waiting list but well worth it considering this dog will be part of your family for the next 15yrs or so, a poorly bred one can cost you a fortune, my godmother bought a westie pup from a rubbish breeder ended up costing her 16 grand in vet bills alone for all the health issues he had!

So don't rush out and buy the first pup you see, if possible view a few litters or even better meet the breeders dogs before they have a litter, they should be passionate and knowledgable about their breed and be breeding for a reason other than cash!:)

tk123

DBB wrote: »

Tk123 on this forum is the local Retriever guru, I'm sure she can point you in the direction of a good breeder, hopefully she'll be along to this thread to give you some advice

Aww shucks!

I don't know if I'm a guru but I have one donedeal type retriever and one from a good breeder.. I was clueless when I got my boy and as much as we love him to bits he has all the hallmarks of a nightmare retriever - he can be wary of strangers or just anything that doesn't fit in - like we were out for our walk this morning and 2 guys were carrying a goal to set up the field for practice/a match and he was a bit scared of the goal! :rolleyes: He can resource guard, is anxious and has had lots of heath problems etc etc etc I have an interest in dog training - I don't think somebody who didn't would be able to handle him tbh

My other retriever is chilled out and in perfect health. The breeder only bred one litter but the dad is from Woodmore kennels and that's where I'll be going to if and when we get another one. I get a lot of compliments from trainers about Lucy because she's just so relaxed and nothing phases her. She was in for her annual checkup there a few weeks ago and we were only charged €20 - the vet said she was perfect and she had no advise for me lol! :pac:

A friend was showing me pics of a litter their friend was thinking of buying a pup from just the other day - all the pups lined up for their done deal photo op and I had to bite my tongue off. A good breeder won't need to advertise their pups - they'll have people lined up to buy them. When I called about Lucy they were 9 days old and 2 were already reserved!

For sourcing the pup
Call the IKC and they'll give you a list of breeders to call who have/are expecting a litter soon. Even at that you need to make sure the breeder has hip and elbow scores done - the breeder will have these to show you and list of questions for you too. Suss out the parents when you get there although they may only have the mum.. Lucy's mum was relaxed as anything so a really good sign - we know where she gets it from because she's the same! Pups were inside the house and their little pen was clean and tidy and we were able to see them all interacting etc Breeder told us we could come back and see them any time and sent me pics every week to two etc etc etc
The important thing is mentally take a step back and make sure everything on your checklist has a tick beside it and not just fall in love with the puppies and forget everything else.

samo

Was reading this going nooooooo, don't do it!

So glad you heeded the advice though from your sister and all the posters.

Just on the retriever, we have an amazing girl nearly 2 now that we got from Raistin retrievers in WestMeath, I think she has pups due soon but most are already booked but she maybe able to put you in touch with another breeder. They don't come cheap but can only echo the advice here, these pups are very well socialised (in the house) , our girls temperament is amazing, parents on hand, the breeder always there with advice and having had a retriever before who sadly passed away there is a world of difference with the experience this time round.

Good luck!

jomalone14

The Darkroom wrote: »

Does anyone know of any dog trainers in Dundalk or blackrock area? Thanks.

I can recommend Joanne of Problem Paws for regular puppy/dog training. She's based in Dundalk. Www.problempaws.ie

I booked her for 2 one-to-one sessions at my house when I got my first rescue dog as a pup a few years ago, well worth it.

The Darkroom

jomalone14 wrote: »

I can recommend Joanne of Problem Paws for regular puppy/dog training. She's based in Dundalk. Www.problempaws.ie

I booked her for 2 one-to-one sessions at my house when I got my first rescue dog as a pup a few years ago, well worth it.

Thanks, I have tried to getting through to her but it keeps ringing out. I'll try again some other time.