Increase in penalty points since insured

cm2

My husband took out car insurance in July. I am a named driver on the policy. At the time we took out the insurance I had 3 points (which expire in Oct). In July I got 2 x 3 points (60 in a 50 zone and crossing a continuous white line).

I have a couple of queries
1. When we took out the insurance (I did the paperwork) we were not asked about penalty points. I was asked about endorsements - is that the same thing?
2. When I check back on the paperwork from the insurance company there is no mention of penalty points/endorsements. We have 7 years no claims and clean licences.
3. What do I do here? For 3 months I will have 9 points on my licence. I don't want to take any silly chances but am unsure where I stand on this. I guess I should call and let them know but where do I stand if they havent asked
We are insured with Its4women.ie (AIG)
Thanks

cplwhisper

We all have bad days so

1. If you were asked us you both clean licences then you were declaring no points or convictions in place.
2. If it states clean licences then it means the 3 pp weren't fully disclosed otherwise that statement of fact would have specified same.
3. Declare all the points asap as heaven forbid if a claim was to occur then the Company have full grounds to turn down claim for non-disclosure.

Will they charge more YES
Could it be worse YES, they could cancel but if you get letter from NDLS that confirms the dates the points were applied they'll know it's genuine case.

Liam McPoyle

cplwhisper wrote: »

We all have bad days so

1. If you were asked us you both clean licences then you were declaring no points or convictions in place.
2. If it states clean licences then it means the 3 pp weren't fully disclosed otherwise that statement of fact would have specified same.
3. Declare all the points asap as heaven forbid if a claim was to occur then the Company have full grounds to turn down claim for non-disclosure.

Will they charge more YES
Could it be worse YES, they could cancel but if you get letter from NDLS that confirms the dates the points were applied they'll know it's genuine case.

A policyholder is not obliged to declare penalty points mid term, only at renewal or inception but I'd agree with you.

It is best practice to advise your insurer of things like additional penalty points if and when they occur.

They cannot charge any additional premium at this stage but depending on the company they may apply a loading at renewal when the policy holder will have 6.

NinjaTruncs

When you say you did the paperwork, do you mean an online application? Their site asks for points in the "convictions" section. You'd be best to ring them up and get the 3 points added.

cplwhisper

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

cplwhisper wrote: »

We all have bad days so

1. If you were asked us you both clean licences then you were declaring no points or convictions in place.
2. If it states clean licences then it means the 3 pp weren't fully disclosed otherwise that statement of fact would have specified same.
3. Declare all the points asap as heaven forbid if a claim was to occur then the Company have full grounds to turn down claim for non-disclosure.

Will they charge more YES
Could it be worse YES, they could cancel but if you get letter from NDLS that confirms the dates the points were applied they'll know it's genuine case.

A policyholder is not obliged to declare penalty points mid term, only at renewal or inception but I'd agree with you.

It is best practice to advise your insurer of things like additional penalty points if and when they occur.

They cannot charge any additional premium at this stage but depending on the company they may apply a loading at renewal when the policy holder will have 6.

But if AIG have PP non-Disclosure Claus like Aviva then her excess may increase frantically if a claim occurs. I'll try spy their T&C file later

Liam McPoyle

cplwhisper wrote: »

But if AIG have PP non-Disclosure Claus like Aviva then her excess may increase frantically if a claim occurs. I'll try spy their T&C file later

Aviva have a clause that if PP's are received mid term but not disclosed that they can jack up the excess?

That's very sneaky if so.

As I said, the general rule of thumb wrt PP's is that they have to be declared at inception and / or renewal because that's when utmost good faith is operative.

I guess one could argue that getting PP's mid term is a material fact however it doesn't change the risk at hand like if a perm sub was been done or an additional driver so I'd be surprised if it hasn't happened at least occasionally that if someone fell foul of this clause that they challenged Aviva on it.

cplwhisper

Are u not in the UWR dept somewhere ?
Common knowledge in my personal lines dept

Liam McPoyle

cplwhisper wrote: »

Are u not in the UWR dept somewhere ?
Common knowledge in my personal lines dept

What does that have to do with anything? Am I supposed to know the clauses of every insurer in the country or something?

I don't and never have worked for Aviva.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

What does that have to do with anything? Am I supposed to know the clauses of every insurer in the country or something.

Well, if you make a blanket comment such as "a policyholder is not obliged to declare penalty points mid term", you really should. This is not a new thing, as many insurers have modified the duty of disclosure by contract conditions for years.

Liam McPoyle

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Well, if you make a blanket comment such as "a policyholder is not obliged to declare penalty points mid term", you really should. This is not a new thing, as many insurers have modified the duty of disclosure by contract conditions for years.

From Insurance Ireland

Duty of Disclosure

Your duty when seeking insurance to inform the insurer of every material fact. The duty arises when getting quotes for new insurance. It also applies if you look for a variation of cover and at renewal of your policy.



Penalty points are not a variation of cover.

Like I said above, its a sneaky clause and if challenged with the FSO I'd be confident the FSO would rule in favour of the insured in the majority of cases.

You can keep trying to prove me wrong buddy and I will keep knocking you down.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

From Insurance Ireland

Duty of Disclosure

Your duty when seeking insurance to inform the insurer of every material fact. The duty arises when getting quotes for new insurance. It also applies if you look for a variation of cover and at renewal of your policy.



Penalty points are not a variation of cover.

Like I said above, its a sneaky clause and if challenged with the FSO I'd be confident the FSO would rule in favour of the insured in the majority of cases.

You can keep trying to prove me wrong buddy and I will keep knocking you down.

I'n not your 'buddy', I'm someone who used to respect the advice you gave to others on what is now a complicated product. However, you've taken to claiming ownership of every question on motor insurance, often with wrong information, which you post as facts. This is one such example. I think is is a dangerous position you have taken, as others rely on accuracy of information

I'm not saying it isn't sneaky by insurers, but it is a valid clause in the contract and many insurers have similar wordings. I won't be getting in to further debate with you on this or any other thread on Motor Insurance, until you depersonalise your responses to other posters

cplwhisper

Just noting here guys&girls
this is a forum for people to assist as best they info we can from our own experiences/work.

We aren't here representing a company so there's no need for Boardsie's to get annoyed at others.

The only true answer for each insurance query is the policy book and:or T&C of each insurance company.!

Liam McPoyle

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

I'n not your 'buddy', I'm someone who used to respect the advice you gave to others on what is now a complicated product. However, you've taken to claiming ownership of every question on motor insurance, often with wrong information, which you post as facts. This is one such example. I think is is a dangerous position you have taken, as others rely on accuracy of information

I'm not saying it isn't sneaky by insurers, but it is a valid clause in the contract and many insurers have similar wordings. I won't be getting in to further debate with you on this or any other thread on Motor Insurance, until you depersonalise your responses to other posters

I "take ownership" as you put it because I have a substantially higher knowledge and experience base about insurance than the average poster and the average joe soap.

Please do point out where I'm often wrong about matters. If you can prove I'm wron about things I have stated as fact then I will absolutely hold my hands up.

If you are referring to the thread on DoC I gave an opinion, I didn't state a fact.

You then decided to tell me I was wrong and when challenged on it you had to resort to making things up to back up what you were saying.

In this thread I provided back up to what I said from insurance Ireland who exist to answer questions and queries from the public about insurance matters. Are they wrong too?

Clauses exist on all insurance policies and many of them are pretty much redundant.

As for me personalising on here, I take exception when people call me a liar and can't be bothered to try and qualify why they are saying it.

I will leave it there. If mods have an issue with me, my posts or me posting in multiple threads then I'm sure they will be in touch.

cm2

Thanks to everyone for your contributions. NinjaTruncs you are quite correct. I redid a quote request and under convictions it does mention penalty points. Stupidly I didn't think of convictions as penalty points and just ticked that box as negative. Now realise I am probably in an even worse position (and feeling beyond stupid). Oh dear! Off to write to them now. Fingers crossed and thanks again everyone CM