Tall evergreen Mature trees?

alannah8

Hi There,

I have an urgent need for tall evergreen Mature trees.

Owners of a monstrous new build that was somehow allowed by the (unnamed) council has now cut down the beautiful trees mentioned in their planning application. Apart from the destruction of the previous owner's beautiful 30ft tall deciduous trees they now overlook me. Badly. They are on a steep incline to my rear so I would need tall trees to reinstate my privacy.

Does coillte sell tall evergreen specimens, or is there a recommended place that anybody knows about?

Also I have a shed in my garden which runs to the boundary wall. Unusual question but can I grow tall plants on the top of this with little soil?

Thanks board members,

Alannah

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Did the planning allow for removal of the existing trees?

alannah8

They just mentioned the trees in the planning application i.e. south boundary consists of a mix of mature trees but there were no conditions of planning stating they had to be retained. I am kicking myself that I didn't object. But its done now and the trees are gone so I guess I just have to try to figure out a plan...They also destroyed my beautiful clematis plant which grew along the boundary wall. Literally hacked it off so I have a dead mass of brown clematis. There are other things they have done to my border shrubs but I don't want to say too much in case I am identified.

Gutted and trying to come to terms with sorting this out.

Thanks for your help :-)

lazybones32

Do your homework now: ring around and get quotes for rootballed trees and get a few quotations for installation as well.
There are many suppliers of mature trees but they will be a lot cheaper if bought between Nov-Mar as rootballed (not in pots).
Buying mature trees will require serious enough groundwork - between preparing the hole, staking and guide wires which is why I say, do your homework now.

What Province are you in?

alannah8

Thanks a mill --good tip getting in now, I'm in Leinster. I will ring around and get some quotes and have googled a few places, many places loos good so could do with some recommendations and price-guesses, particularly for really tall, i.e larger than 2/3 m trees.

Thinking of eucalyptus, atlantic blue cedar (beautiful but slow growing), cabbage palms and dare I say it, the dreaded leylandii.

Thinking of preparing the ground, building a waist high wall, filling it with soil and planting the trees there - already elevated. Would this work? Or would the roots break this up after a few years?

I know that it will take a while for the trees to establish themselves, in the meantime I might erect a tall trellis to the wall (which is already 2m) (is this even allowed?) and try to grow a fast climber across it.

Or bamboo on my shed roof?

I am seriously upset about this, some people have no taste. I can't imagine why they would destroy beautiful mature trees that have taken years to grow and instead prefer the vista of my home and garden!!!

looksee

How much space is there between your house and the wall? I have an idea you are not allowed to just cut down mature trees even in your own garden; check with the planning department to see if it was granted on the basis that the trees would mean you were not overlooked.

How much of a height would you need to get your privacy back?

The fastest way would be to put up a row of poles with wires or bars across and grow a Russian Vine (google pics!) but it is not really all that good an idea. Clematis Montana would be another possibility but a bit slower to get going. A Rambling Rector rose would do similarly. Meanwhile you could get some trees started between the poles and the wall. The advantage of this is that planning would not come into the equation and they would not be able to do anything about it.

magicbastarder

looksee wrote: »

I have an idea you are not allowed to just cut down mature trees even in your own garden; check with the planning department to see if it was granted on the basis that the trees would mean you were not overlooked.

if it was not specified in the planning conditions, and there are no preservation orders on the trees, i think you can cut your own trees down at will if they're within 100 feet of your house:

http://www.gardenplansireland.com/forum/about1220.html

Shint0

magicbastarder wrote: »

if it was not specified in the planning conditions, and there are no preservation orders on the trees, i think you can cut your own trees down at will if they're within 100 feet of your house:

http://www.gardenplansireland.com/forum/about1220.html

This is true but if they were effectively sitting on the boundary right on the perimeter with no other structure such as a wall or fence in place and providing privacy there may be issues there regardless of whether the other property owners planted them or owned them.

This scenario might require permission from the other neighbour to have them removed so you might need their consent. Not sure from the OP if that's the situation here.

alannah8

Hi There,

Sorry I probably was not clear. The trees were theirs and there is a border wall between us and them. The trees were 30 ft high and only just protected overlooking because they are on a steep gradient behind...it's like an apartment block. Or a deathstar. There was no condition in planning to keep these trees so i dont think they have any obligation to replant. I have a wide shed along part of my wall and then just wall, a large part of which - an old beautiful ivy and wisteria covered wall- which they knocked down in the course of building and refused to pay for saying they had no legal obligation. So I had to fix that. Now they have cut the trees. I want to go very high to block them out at least 25ft on my side should do it. I don't want to wait ten or 15 years. While they stare out at my children growing up!! So im thinking mature fast growing evergreens and fast climbers. I like the idea of wire and Russian vine especially over the shed where I can't plant trees - thanks so much for this. How high can I go? Legally. Does this not have the same guidelines as a wall/fence ie 2 metres? I would then try to regrow clematis that they destroyed in place by careful removal.
Thanks for this. I've enjoyed a beautiful private garden that still has some beautiful plants for many many years. They have destroyed this and I'm gutted.

johnb25

alannah8 wrote: »

They just mentioned the trees in the planning application i.e. south boundary consists of a mix of mature trees but there were no conditions of planning stating they had to be retained. I am kicking myself that I didn't object. But its done now and the trees are gone so I guess I just have to try to figure out a plan...They also destroyed my beautiful clematis plant which grew along the boundary wall. Literally hacked it off so I have a dead mass of brown clematis. There are other things they have done to my border shrubs but I don't want to say too much in case I am identified.

Gutted and trying to come to terms with sorting this out.

Thanks for your help :-)

As the trees were on their south boundary, presumably they removed them for light/sun.
I guess probably not, but have you spoken to them to find out if they have any plans for the boundary on their side. If you are sharing a boundary, it may be better in the long run to try and have some communication with them. Btw, I do sympathise with your situation, just trying to offer some distant advice.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I too would talk to them about their plans for the boundary area before I did any work myself.

oppenheimer1

Leylandii are fast growing evergreen trees.

Sounds like what you need

alannah8

Hi There,

Had to just check, My garden faces directly south, and the new build is due south of our garden so shadow is on my side. I'd prefer that than looking at them. They have cut the trees down in order to get a good view.


Thanks

A

Teyla Emmagan

I would be gutted too if I were you OP. People can be very crass. I have never understood how some people's idea of a garden is a space with nothing living in it.

Your shed will collapse if you plant anything on top of it. The wood will rot and they're not meant to take that type of weight.

You can definitely buy half grown bamboo but I am not sure about evergreens. I personally hate cabbage palm but maybe they would give you some cover while your sixty foot leylandi grow in.

I don't understand how they didn't have to replace your boundary wall if they knocked it though.

solargain

Why not replant something of benefit to the bees and other pollinators like Lime trees I have seen some of those quick growing trees knock sheds and walls in storms

alannah8

Thanks Teyla. It's devastating and I don't think I have an option but to plant Leylandii. My she'd has stone foundations and a galvanised roof. Might that take the weight of something?
Solargrain I need something fast. I have plenty of trees and plants grown specially for pollinators - verbena Budhlia lavender cherry bramble as well as architectural plants and a wildflower patch plus fruits. For beauty and coverage of another much lower house I have a stand of himalayan white birch and an alder that self-sowed. Deciduous trees are no good in the winter though and even beech which would retain its leaves would take ages to attain the necessary height.This build with massive windows looms ominously over me. I am a keen if amateur gardener and the thing I valued most about my small house was my garden and the verdant privacy I enjoyed and adding to it over the years...I have been looking at rental properties because I don't know if I can face this for another 10 years until I get tree cover. I know logically this is such a first world issue and I'm lucky to have a home etc but I'm stressed and kicking myself I didn't object.

I've learnt a hard lesson that thousands of people must learn every year: get a professional to look at planning notices and don't be 'nice' and 'neighbourly' and expect that the planning department will carefully evaluate every application.

So, if anyone has a nice wellingtonia or eucalyptus regnans that they wish to excavate and donate please do.

A

johnb25

alannah8 wrote: »

Thanks Teyla. It's devastating and I don't think I have an option but to plant Leylandii. My she'd has stone foundations and a galvanised roof. Might that take the weight of something?
Solargrain I need something fast. I have plenty of trees and plants grown specially for pollinators - verbena Budhlia lavender cherry bramble as well as architectural plants and a wildflower patch plus fruits. For beauty and coverage of another much lower house I have a stand of himalayan white birch and an alder that self-sowed. Deciduous trees are no good in the winter though and even beech which would retain its leaves would take ages to attain the necessary height.This build with massive windows looms ominously over me. I am a keen if amateur gardener and the thing I valued most about my small house was my garden and the verdant privacy I enjoyed and adding to it over the years...I have been looking at rental properties because I don't know if I can face this for another 10 years until I get tree cover. I know logically this is such a first world issue and I'm lucky to have a home etc but I'm stressed and kicking myself I didn't object.

I've learnt a hard lesson that thousands of people must learn every year: get a professional to look at planning notices and don't be 'nice' and 'neighbourly' and expect that the planning department will carefully evaluate every application.

So, if anyone has a nice wellingtonia or eucalyptus regnans that they wish to excavate and donate please do.

A

No guarantee an objection would be upheld, and like it or not, you are still neighbours. You could have lost an objection and made relations with the neighbours more difficult.

Shint0

johnb25 wrote: »

No guarantee an objection would be upheld, and like it or not, you are still neighbours. You could have lost an objection and made relations with the neighbours more difficult.

Yes and even from the further information the OP gave I can't see that the neighbours did anything wrong in removing the trees, at least. Not entirely sure about the other aspects of what they did.

While a lot of people despise Leylandii they are a common fast-growing solution in these type of cases for privacy. You have to factor in that they need regular maintenance, trimming back if you want them to look tidy and they can be quite dense.

So you will lose some of your own garden space as well. If you have ample space that might not be a problem but if you value privacy over space they could be an option. Plus they can offer good shelter if the area has now been exposed due to removal of the other trees.

alannah8

Thanks Shint0,

Technically what they did was legal of course but there is a moral aspect and I would have thought that if you have selected a new neighbourhood to live in, you would try to do your best by the neighbours.

To knock down somebody's wall, destroy plants etc and say screw you we're not legally obliged to do anything is nasty.

To chop down trees that have been there for, maybe 40 years and expose your neighbour to overlooking is not neighbourly.

Another neighbour of theirs had ornamental ivy growing up the wall and over into the garden. They chopped the ivy back to the wall, shoved it over their wall and built a shed on the party wall! The neighbours are peaceful and not inclined to do anything about it.


I care much more about privacy than about space or even light.

Any opinions on eucalyptus? I know it can get gappy if allowed to grow naturally but it is a more beautiful tree than the fast growing cypresses.

Teyla Emmagan

We actually have a trellis at home like looksee describes - it was put in to hide this humongous portacabin one of the neighbours put in their garden. It has russian vine, clematis and a few climbing roses. It looks beautiful and is very effective. A bit gappy in the winter, but not too bad. The only issue was that after about 20 years it fell down and my folks had to start from scratch as all the plants had to be cut back to remove the dead wood. The wood couldn't really be treated once the plants had covered it. It kinda looked like this, only 40 foot long with a cross panel at the back for further cover that the plants grew up through:

http://www.sunset.com/garden/backyard-projects/how-to-build-a-garden-trellis

So I think that could work really well, if you built it in metal!

Teyla Emmagan

alannah8 wrote: »

This build with massive windows looms ominously over me. I am a keen if amateur gardener and the thing I valued most about my small house was my garden and the verdant privacy I enjoyed and adding to it over the years...I have been looking at rental properties because I don't know if I can face this for another 10 years until I get tree cover. I know logically this is such a first world issue and I'm lucky to have a home etc but I'm stressed and kicking myself I didn't object.

A

You poor thing, my heart goes out to you. If it's any consolation, I don't think the planning authorities would have paid a blind bit of notice to any request to keep the trees in situ. Poor comfort I know.

In a short few years nature will have done its work and you will have all the privacy you need again, don't worry.

alannah8

Thanks again Teyla, the link looks great and something sturdy made from metal is a v good idea for over the shed part. I'm starting to see options!!

in the meantime the helium-floating blowup dolls and early tacky xmas lights should have them regretting their decision and in 10 years they'll be on boards.ie bemoaning their thoughtless neighbour who has destroyed their views with giant trees.

No I just want a bit of privacy back. It doesn't affect some people but I have been stressing as the building went up and as they were such a**holes over the wall, I worried that they were going to chop the trees back or worse. So here I am. The worst outcome for this has happened. And I have options.

I know this is a gardening thread, so we are all a bit biased towards trees/plants but I cant understand why somebody would look at some outstanding trees and say chop em I'd prefer looking down at someone making a morning coffee in their knickers, clothes on the line, an outdoor hose and kids playing in a garden...

A x

lazybones32

alannah8 wrote: »

...I'd prefer looking down at someone making a morning coffee in their knickers...

Oh yeah? What colour?

alannah8

Thanks Lazybones, I deserved that. Grumpy middle aged lady ones. Rrrrr.
Maybe its time to get really buff again and do some nice bendy morning yoga on my lawn.
Which would provoke them to get running to the garden centre fastest?

#Silverlinings

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

alannah, I still think you should talk to them about the situation, and their plans for the boundary, before you do anything else.

looksee

Leandro Swift Limousine wrote: »

alannah, I still think you should talk to them about the situation, and their plans for the boundary, before you do anything else.

Certainly before the yoga...

alannah8

Srameen, They are not the 'talking to types' They knocked down my boundary wall in order to get access to build and basically told me to F off as they were not legally bound to do anything about it. When I spoke to them then, I continuously repeated how concerned I was about my privacy and not being overlooked.

They have destroyed a gorgeous clematis I had that tumbled all over my shed.

They basically cut and shoved ornamental ivy into a neighbour's garden and then used the wall to build a shed with - without asking.

Then they cut down all their trees.

He will just tell me to 'F' off again. Their trees. They can do what they like and I don't need that kind of 'conversation'.

Rancid

alannah8, I tend to agree that you're probably wise to try to talk to the neighbour and see if they have any plans to plant that part of their garden, or worse, to build some type of structure to house a gym or something similar, thereby affording no privacy whatsoever.

In the short-term work our your own best plan if all comes to all and they do nothing.
I very much like looksee's suggestion to do a metal trellis a few feet from the boundary while you plant something fast growing behind it.
I'm open to correction here, but I think there is no (or at least, less) restriction on height of fence/trellis if it isn't attached to the boundary wall.
If that's correct, you can grow some fast climbers to give you some privacy soonish.

Think about planting bamboos behind that trellis. Phyllostachys bissetii are sturdy and evergreen and when well watered they shoot up pretty quickly, as well as looking well.

alannah8

Rancid wrote: »

I'm open to correction here, but I think there is no (or at least, less) restriction on height of fence/trellis if it isn't attached to the boundary wall.
If that's correct, you can grow some fast climbers to give you some privacy soonish.

Rancid, thanks for your reply. I'd be interested in hearing if anybody knows the answer to this. I have a lovely phyllostaccys aurea stand that I might be able to draw from but even at their height they wouldn't disguise the building, unless I could somehow grow them on top of the shed - the new building behind is on a sharp gradient. Their 30ft trees were the only things that worked...

Oldtree

Legal requirements for tree felling in Ireland:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/legalrequirementsfortreefelling/

Very odd there was no mention of retention of the mature trees in the planning application.

I dont think mature trees are really the answer, as they are very expensive and need a huge amount of aftercare and will be surpassed within 8-10 years by fast growing saplings. If you go for the mature tree option then I would plant a second line of fast growing saplings in front of them.

Before you do anything, ask yourself when and where exactly do you need your privacy? It is easy to set up a few private stations within the garden or to put a structure/plant within the garden closer to a kitchen window that must have year round privacy.

Trellis on top of the boundary fence, but this would only up to 7 foot, 6 foot fence 1 foot trellis. Climbers and trees in pots could provid some privacy along the trellis. Trellis on top of the shed maby?

Bamboo and Lilac even buddleia planted in the garden at strategic points can a give private spot to the rear of the garden.

Layered shrub/tree planting combined with garden structures like a pergola and/or a trellis covered walkway with climbers or shrubs interwoven, again strategically placed may work. looksee's idea of poles and wires with climbers half way down the garden might work and not need to be as high as being only at the end of the garden. or a combination of poles and wires at the end of the garden and half way down the garden, again not needing to be so high as one set of poles and wires.

It is very difficult to make specific suggestions with out seeing the site, but I understand your privacy concerns on an open forum.

alannah8

Thanks so much oldtree, I tried to pm you a photo but can't. My garden is short and wide. I have an old stone shed quite wide running along the boundary line and directly in front of this, if we are sitting on the grass it's private. Then I have a wooden fence (put in after they smashed my ivy and climber covered wall) sitting on concrete slab which was an extension of the shed. Then I have the remaining boundary as a planted bed with trees shrubs and plants and an ivy and bramble covered wall.
The new build looks at most of the garden, entirely into the kitchen and a bedroom.
A letter from the co council said they didn't foresee any overlooking issues. And I don't see anything about retaining trees in the planning. Just a note that they are there.

Because my garden is wide not long I can't start anything halfway across my garden unfortunately.

I could somehow attach a metal trellis to the back of the shed and grow plants up but this is on top of a 2 metres high shed. And their recent actions lead me to believe they would destroy any trellis I put up. They probably already have plans for any boundary walls remaining!

I will have to dig up some of the slab - which we treat as a patio - in order to plant trees.

Frankly it's all a hot mess. I have small pockets of privacy though here and there.

It's the time aspect though that gets me. In 10 years my kids will be teenage/adults. It's now I need privacy...

Your house and garden should be your haven and right now I just want to escape from it...

Oldtree

All is not lost, there are many ideas to work forward with to create privacy even in the most overlooked garden, you just need to plan the garden carefully and work out exactly the angles of neighbours windows that you feel overlook your garden. It will take a while to do but not years.

The slab next to the shed may be useful to put a large pergola on. giving privacy both in it and in front of it like the shed, with tall shrubs/trees even pampas grass between the shed and pergola and the pergola and the other boundary, that match the height of the shed/pergola. (Pergola/arbor/gazebo)

A covered (pergolaish) patio outside the kitchen, the length of the house, could take care of that end of the garden. dosnt need to be a concrete patio, grassed/planted maby.

what length and breath is your garden, how high is the shed?

I found a few pics that may give you a few ideas/options to work from:

plants (could be trees/shrubs/pampas grass) in pots/fence combination



pergola at end of garden



a privatised patio outside the kitchen/bedroom (presuming bedroom on ground floor, if not blinds in the bedroom turned down below the eyeline of the top of the end of garden structures will make the bedroom private and allow a view of the garden/light in)



bit ott this one but...... can be planted up with ivy/climbers evergreen or deciduous



the middle of the garden could be broken down into smaller gardens/areas, using fencing/trellis/potted plants/ready bought hedges or walkways/corridors/arches to create areas of privacy. You may need to set up a timed irrigation system with this or simply a drip hose.













versions of looksee's idea

TheQuietFella

looksee wrote: »

How much space is there between your house and the wall? I have an idea you are not allowed to just cut down mature trees even in your own garden.

Yes you can!!!

Shint0

Oldtree, they are some great ideas. What height would the bamboo in the containers in the first picture grow to? Can they be kept in the containers indefinitely or would they have to be transplanted again in time into bigger containers or into the ground?

Oldtree

Shint0 wrote: »

Oldtree, they are some great ideas. What height would the bamboo in the containers in the first picture grow to? Can they be kept in the containers indefinitely or would they have to be transplanted again in time into bigger containers or into the ground?

It would depend on the bamboo chosen, local conditions and the size of the container. plants may need support too.

They could be kept in the same container, taken out every few years and split or put into bigger containers or root pruned and new compost. I have grown trees for privacy in pots but not a tall bamboo. I grew black bamboo in the ground and it went up to about 10-12 foot or so, nice and thick but it can spread very quickly by runners. It was a lovely plant to grow with the black stems and bright green leaves but imo is not suited to an open, damp or windy aspect.

Bamboo does make a lovely sound in a slight breeze.

Watering and feeding would be important with large plants in containers. large trays under the containers lets you know when water is needed (tray is dry )

cursai

Set up an old camera and a tripod in your garden facing them. They'll soon appreciate their privacy and yours.

alannah8

Oldtree, you are amazing. These are some really great ideas. Thank you.

I currently grow phyllostachys aurea but like the idea of black stemmed bamboo.
I like the pergola idea and you're right, blinds turned down in the bedroom would be better than having my curtains permanently closed.

Thanks so much for all the thought you have put into these.

A

Oldtree

thanks if I can think of anything else I'll post it and would love to know how you get on and any further ideas you may get