Late transfer of entitlements

candlestick

I was gifted the farm from my father in 2015. The transfer of the herd number only went through after the BPS application had gone in last year so the payment was made to my father, although I didn't realise it at the time (same names) and thought everything was complete from my side.

My father has since passed away.

I've been told by the Department today that the entitlements were not signed over last year (I presumed it was all done as part of the transfer but it seems I'm wrong) and that i've missed the May deadline for transferring for this year. They told me to send in this year's form now but I may or may not get paid this year.

Has anyone any experience of this? Did you get payment? And is there any chance they can move to put the entitlements in the National Reserve if they deem them not used for 2016?

Muckit

Condolences on the death of your father.

Farm transfers are tricky. I don't know why they call them 'farm transfers' because its really only transfer of the land that the solicitors deal with. But you can't run or operate a farm without a herd number. This you have to sort yourself.

Bps payments are a major part of the financial side of many farms, yet the entitlements are not dealt with in the transfer either!!

Don't panic. As far as l know you will not have lost the entitlements to reserve. As regards transfer of the entitlements, there is a transfer of entitlement form that the two parties have to sign. Obviously that is not possible now but there must be an alternative.

I would ring the dept of ag transfer of entitements section 1890 200 560. I always found the bps section to be very helpful.

Ask them all the 'what if ' scenarios. Talk in general. I suppose you have to ask yourself how can you prove that your late father wanted you to have the entitlements. If he were to have say signed the transfer of entitlement form just before he passed, then you could sign it and get a teagasc agent or similar to sign it and stamp it. Job done.

Best of luck. You will get it sorted. You wouldn't be the first person that found themselves in this situation.

candlestick

Thanks Muckit.

The transfer of entitlements was dealt with from a legal point of view when the land was transferred over to me, witnessed by the solicitor, etc, so there is no query over whether my father wanted me to have the entitlements. I presumed that this was enough for the Department but you live and learn.

I transferred over the herd number and have applied for BPS in my own herd number this year.

It's just a case that the Transfer of Entitlements form wasn't sent in to the Department. It can be done now, signed by my father's solicitor, but it is well past the May deadline. My worry is that I may not get grants at all this year - they have said they will be delayed or I may not get any at all. They told me to submit the form and they'll let me know. A headache when there are bills to pay.

Muckit

Yes of course it is a headache. Especially since you have done 99% of things right and there's only one small cliche.

But l suppose looking at the big picture all will come good in the end. Yes there is a question mark over this year but you havent lost the entitlements and all will be resolved for next year.

I bet all will get sorted for this year yet. As l said you wouldn't be the first person it happened to.

If you got your bps forms in on time and you had all tight on the legal side as you've said, then l can't see why all won't turn out well.

Try and remain calm and stick to the facts when talking to the bps crowd. Not easy to do but remember you need to keep them on side until you get this over the line.

All the very best.

croot

candlestick wrote: »

The transfer of entitlements was dealt with from a legal point of view when the land was transferred over to me, witnessed by the solicitor, etc, so there is no query over whether my father wanted me to have the entitlements. I presumed that this was enough for the Department but you live and learn.

I transferred over the herd number and have applied for BPS in my own herd number this year.

It's just a case that the Transfer of Entitlements form wasn't sent in to the Department. It can be done now, signed by my father's solicitor, but it is well past the May deadline. My worry is that I may not get grants at all this year - they have said they will be delayed or I may not get any at all. They told me to submit the form and they'll let me know. A headache when there are bills to pay.

Sorry for you loss candlestick.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but I had a similar situation with a different scheme in that the entitlements form wasn't sent in but everything else was done and as far as the dept were concerned "computer says no" was my answer. Appealed and got same result. Might depend on the official in charge because the one in my case was as thick as you could ever meet.

Good luck with it and hopefully they'll sort it and if you don't get it all you might only get a late application penalty.

candlestick

Croot, were the entitlements taken off you or did you just not get the grant that year?

The Department have told me to appeal so I can only remain hopeful.

tellmeabit

sorry for your loss, im in somewhat similar spot. not expert, but as far as I am aware, entitlement have to be gifted or transferred. in my case it would have been called out in the will. this has to be done of else it is divided up as part of the deceased's estate.
spoke with the dept inheritance unit and found them extremely helpful, more that I could have asked to be fair.

croot

candlestick wrote: »

Croot, were the entitlements taken off you or did you just not get the grant that year?

The Department have told me to appeal so I can only remain hopeful.

Mine was different but I didn't lose the entitlements. I did lose out on the other scheme and lost over 20000 but it was the transfer that caused it. My Brother in law appealed a case sort of like yours and was successful but was penalised a %.