Tesla P100D

Slaanesh

Tesla have now released a larger battery for their Model S and Model X range.

With a potential 0-60 time of 2.5 seconds it makes it the 3rd quickest production car in the world whilst being able to lug around a family and luggage (probably wouldn't get that performance fully laden).

The range of electric vehicles keeps extending with an estimated range of 614km, this is an amazing feat.

I was looking at the range of my diesel and I had travelled 550km so far on my tank. It has also taken me 10 hours to drive that amount. 614km range would suit anyone on our small island. I'd imagine a lot less would actually be sufficient even for the long drivers. To be honest I would have a 60D as long as I could plug it in every night I would be fine, there would be no range anxiety.

Tesla say that these newer options for the Model S and X are to fund the design and development of the Model 3 which will hopefully be available here in Ireland. There are rumours of a showroom/superchargers for September, it would be great to see more infrastructure here from a innovative company and maybe it might kick the ass of existing players to provide world class services for electric vehicles.

Article: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world?redirect=no

Sabre Man

Based on the stated US range, 315 EPA-rated miles on the new P100D, I think the real range is likely to be about 500 km, probably a little more for any 100D should they release one.

cros13

Sabre Man wrote: »

Based on the stated US range, 315 EPA-rated miles on the new P100D, I think the real range is likely to be about 500 km, probably a little more for any 100D should they release one.

Yup, somewhere in the range of 500-550km on the EPA cycle.

bk

Slaanesh wrote: »

I was looking at the range of my diesel and I had travelled 550km so far on my tank. It has also taken me 10 hours to drive that amount. 614km range would suit anyone on our small island. I'd imagine a lot less would actually be sufficient even for the long drivers. To be honest I would have a 60D as long as I could plug it in every night I would be fine, there would be no range anxiety.

I think that the Leaf already has sufficient range for a second car (two car family).

For one car people then I think 95% of people in Ireland would be perfectly happy with a EV that had enough range to do Dublin to Cork/Galway/Limerick/Belfast without stopping.

Sure there might be the odd person who does Cork to Belfast, but I expect most of them wouldn't mind stopping for 30 minutes on a 5 to 6 hour trip.

That would just leave extremes like travelling sales people who might do Dublin to Cork and back on the same day.

zilog_jones

bk wrote: »

Sure there might be the odd person who does Cork to Belfast, but I expect most of them wouldn't mind stopping for 30 minutes on a 5 to 6 hour trip.

I do that at least once a year. It only takes about 4 and a half hours if I hit Dublin at a good time (and I stick to the limit), and I usually take at least one break anyway.

Is the 30 minute charge assuming superchargers will exist? How long would it take to charge with the current fast chargers?

BoatMad

Slaanesh wrote: »

Tesla have now released a larger battery for their Model S and Model X range.

With a potential 0-60 time of 2.5 seconds it makes it the 3rd quickest production car in the world whilst being able to lug around a family and luggage (probably wouldn't get that performance fully laden).

The range of electric vehicles keeps extending with an estimated range of 614km, this is an amazing feat.

I was looking at the range of my diesel and I had travelled 550km so far on my tank. It has also taken me 10 hours to drive that amount. 614km range would suit anyone on our small island. I'd imagine a lot less would actually be sufficient even for the long drivers. To be honest I would have a 60D as long as I could plug it in every night I would be fine, there would be no range anxiety.

Tesla say that these newer options for the Model S and X are to fund the design and development of the Model 3 which will hopefully be available here in Ireland. There are rumours of a showroom/superchargers for September, it would be great to see more infrastructure here from a innovative company and maybe it might kick the ass of existing players to provide world class services for electric vehicles.

Article: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world?redirect=no

Yes a >100k euro car will definitely shake up the Irish EV market ( as will one or two superchargers )

Right on

Now back in the real world .......

Slaanesh

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes a >100k euro car will definitely shake up the Irish EV market ( as will one or two superchargers )

Right on

Now back in the real world .......

You're probably right.

[fanboy]One can dream.[/fanboy]

samih

zilog_jones wrote: »

I do that at least once a year. It only takes about 4 and a half hours if I hit Dublin at a good time (and I stick to the limit), and I usually take at least one break anyway.

Is the 30 minute charge assuming superchargers will exist? How long would it take to charge with the current fast chargers?

You would be ok with a P100D as the distance is 421 km each way.

For the return leg you'd need too stop between 1.5 and 2 hours in total on rapid chargers. Alternatively if you stayed overnight/a full work day close to a street charger the car would fully charge using the onboard 11kW charger in about 9 hours.

A 100 Kwh battery is a waste of Natural resources really. A 60 Kwh battery is fine mostly for a small Island. If they could charge that to 80% in 10 mins it would be better than carrying around a massive battery.

I'd be fine with a 100 Kwh battery if it were not so damn heavy. Certainly not a car you'd want to have a head on with. Maybe in 10 years they can half the weight then I wouldn't have much of an issue with it. That's not to say I wouldn't have it if i could afford it.

Manufacturers need to increase the AC charger power of their on board chargers, BMW are increasing the power to 11 Kw for the 33 Kwh I3. We have a fantastic forgotten about 22 Kw AC network and I have the 6.6 Kw charger in the leaf which I wouldn't be without because it hugely reduces my need to wait at fast chargers. 22 AC would be brilliant. People mainly choose the 3.3 Kw and dealers import mainly the 3.3 to keep costs down.

cros13

samih wrote: »

For the return leg you'd need too stop between 1.5 and 2 hours in total on rapid chargers.

Sure... 80-100 minutes on a 50kW rapid charger (15 minutes of that lost to periods not charging at the full 50kW at the bottom and top of the battery).... but ~30 minutes on a 140kW supercharger and there are superchargers planned for both cork and belfast.

Rough power usage for each leg from Cork to Belfast or back would be ~82-86kWh in 20 degree weather at the speed limit.

samih

cros13 wrote: »

Sure... 80-100 minutes on a 50kW rapid charger (15 minutes of that lost to periods not charging at the full 50kW at the bottom and top of the battery).... but ~30 minutes on a 140kW supercharger and there are superchargers planned for both cork and belfast.

Rough power usage for each leg from Cork to Belfast or back would be ~82-86kWh in 20 degree weather at the speed limit.

That sounds pretty damn good! Hopefully pretty soon the Li battery tech will be in stage that you can fit a 100 kWh battery in 80 liters/200 kg which would mean size of a petrol tank of a large car that would be a very close to the weight parity with conventional vehicles with a full tank (as powertrain of a BEV excluding the battery is a good bit lighter than a diesel).

Yeah Mad_Lad, 100 kWh might be a bit of an overkill for every vehicle. A 60 kWh battery built with such tech would be nice in a car the size of Leaf/Golf/i3. You would be able to fit it under the rear seat only and save a couple of hundreds of kilos compared to the current packs.

@45

It will be a decade or 2 before you can fit 100 Kwh in the same size of a petrol tank.

You can order the Model S with 2 X 10 Kw AC chargers for a total of 20 Kw. This can replace almost 100 kwh in 5 hrs from a standard street charge point !

It's not all about DC fast charging at 50-100 Kw, we have a fantastic completely undermined , underestimated and underused AC charging network that is in my opinion fantastic. 22 Kw AC !

Put it this way, it would take 7 hrs to charge a 24 Kwh Leaf at 3.3 Kw from these same charge points !!!

And even 2 hrs at 22 Kw might be plenty to get home or to your next destination at 20 kw.

BMW have increased the charger Kw to 11 Kw for the longer range i3. IMO this is a major step in the right direction but not enough.

Only the Renault Zoe has a 22-44 Kw AC charger which is just fantastic.

What car manufacturers are doing really is to dump the cost of the charging onto someone else and put cheaper practically useless AC chargers into electrics. 3.3 Kw in the original Leaf or 3.3 standard in the current model isn't much use when you are out and about, I have the 6.6 Kw and it's pretty fantastic not to have to come back to the car after doing my business and then having to find a DC charger and wait up to 30-40 mins.

A 100 Kwh Model S should be able to do Cork to Belfast one one charge even a 20 min top up @45 Kw would be probably way more than required to get there. Get the twin 10 Kw chargers and in just 5 hrs on a SCP.

samih

Deleted User wrote: »

It will be a decade or 2 before you can fit 100 Kwh in the same size of a petrol tank.

Not necessarily. The Solidenergy Systems promise first Li-metal batteries on sale from November this year (initiailly very small scale production for drones etc. but going on sale in 2016) with a promise that the batteries can be manufactured using generic Li-ion battery manufacturing methods.

They are talking about energy density of about 1.2 kWh/dm3 and 500 Wh/kg. Tesla are currently up to 0.8 kWh/dm3.

So a 50 kWh battery weighing 100 kg/40 liters without cooling/casing.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

Not necessarily. The Solidenergy Systems promise first Li-metal batteries on sale from November this year (initiailly very small scale production for drones etc. but going on sale in 2016) with a promise that the batteries can be manufactured using generic Li-ion battery manufacturing methods.

They are talking about energy density of about 1.2 kWh/dm3 and 500 Wh/kg. Tesla are currently up to 0.8 kWh/dm3.

So a 50 kWh battery weighing 100 kg/40 liters without cooling/casing.

to give you an example of how far we have to go , Teslas is around 265 wh/kg . Leaf is at 248 Wh/kg for the 30 Kwh, Diesel is at 13762 Wh/Kg !!!

Size is some what irrelevant as its weight that penalises the car. even if you speculate that the ICE engine is 1/3 as efficient, that leaves diesel at effectively 4500 wh/kg approx, Battery Tech will have to increase 20 times in efficiency , a tall order , the best Li-Metals are expected to be 300-500 Wh/kg, but many have substantial safety issues

However Li-Air may offer a hope as it can deliver upwards of 13000wh/kg at a cell level. we shall see, but battery technology developments tend to take a long long time to come to market

bk

BoatMad, you haven't taken into account that electric motors are much smaller and lighter then Diesel engines. Then add in the weight of the battery (in a Diesel), exhaust system, etc. All eliminated from EV's.

samih

Another point to consider is that ~30 percent efficiency of a ICE is the peak efficiency at full load where the engine produces its maximum torque. At partial loads and after coldstart etc. etc. the efficiency is much lower than that.

The ICEs are doing better the faster you drive as the engine approaches it's peak efficiency under high load. That combined with the low capacity of current batteries is why it's difficult for BEV to compete with ICE range on motorway.

BoatMad

bk wrote: »

BoatMad, you haven't taken into account that electric motors are much smaller and lighter then Diesel engines. Then add in the weight of the battery (in a Diesel), exhaust system, etc. All eliminated from EV's.

yes , I know, I made a guesstimate based on them being in general 2/3 more efficient ( weight , energy conversion and improved torque etc )