Permission for Bushcraft/Camping access

wellhorsebox

Hi

I am looking for permission to access woodland areas to practice my bushcraft skills. Preferably around Tipp or midlands but I am willing to travel further. I would leave the area with little or no trace if possible. I am willing to help out around the farm in return, I am a carpenter.

Obviously before permission is giving I am willing to meet up to get acquainted and to do whatever is required to gain your trust.

Thanks

Base price

TBH you will find it difficult to get a farmer who is willing to invite you onto their land. Insurance issues have unfortunately diminished the goodwill that farmers traditionally possessed.
I remember we used to allow touring cyclists (mostly German/Dutch) to camp in the haggart during the Summer on the way from/to Dublin docks/airport. They had access to a tap and toilet in the yard. We never had an issue with any of them but unfortunately due to possible/potential insurance claims we had to stop them. We had no specific insurance cover and without it we were leaving ourselves liable.

alps

Had a small group of motorised paragliders a few years back who asked permission if the could use some of our fields to take off and land. They have a running take off and land, suspended on a parachute type wing and have a propeller powered engine on their back.

My initial fear was over insurance and our liability and rang our insurance company about it....

To my very pleasant surprise the boos man there asked me if I was "taking anything" for allowing them in..which I wasn't and he said "live and let live" ....Let them work away..

They haven't been around in while but we spent some very entertaining evenings up the fields watching them land and take off.....All these things build the network. ..you never know when it'll come in handy...

Del2005

alps wrote: »

Had a small group of motorised paragliders a few years back who asked permission if the could use some of our fields to take off and land. They have a running take off and land, suspended on a parachute type wing and have a propeller powered engine on their back.

My initial fear was over insurance and our liability and rang our insurance company about it....

To my very pleasant surprise the boos man there asked me if I was "taking anything" for allowing them in..which I wasn't and he said "live and let live" ....Let them work away..

They haven't been around in while but we spent some very entertaining evenings up the fields watching them land and take off.....All these things build the network. ..you never know when it'll come in handy...

Never trust anything from an insurance company unless it's written and even then I'd get a 2nd opinion.

ganmo

alps wrote: »

Had a small group of motorised paragliders a few years back who asked permission if the could use some of our fields to take off and land. They have a running take off and land, suspended on a parachute type wing and have a propeller powered engine on their back.

My initial fear was over insurance and our liability and rang our insurance company about it....

To my very pleasant surprise the boos man there asked me if I was "taking anything" for allowing them in..which I wasn't and he said "live and let live" ....Let them work away..

They haven't been around in while but we spent some very entertaining evenings up the fields watching them land and take off.....All these things build the network. ..you never know when it'll come in handy...

one of them died this summer

wellhorsebox

Base price wrote: »

TBH you will find it difficult to get a farmer who is willing to invite you onto their land. Insurance issues have unfortunately diminished the goodwill that farmers traditionally possessed.
I remember we used to allow touring cyclists (mostly German/Dutch) to camp in the haggart during the Summer on the way from/to Dublin docks/airport. They had access to a tap and toilet in the yard. We never had an issue with any of them but unfortunately due to possible/potential insurance claims we had to stop them. We had no specific insurance cover and without it we were leaving ourselves liable.

Ya I understand that can be a problem do you know would a written agreement work? as in if I said i took full responsibility and not hold the farmer accountable I hurt myself? would that be ok legally?

Muckit

wellhorsebox wrote: »

Ya I understand that can be a problem do you know would a written agreement work? as in if I said i took full responsibility and not hold the farmer accountable I hurt myself? would that be ok legally?

I can't see how this wouldn't work.

Isn't it so sad though that this is the way things are gone? Like base price said most farmers would love to show a bit of goodwill and let people who dont have access to land have a bit of fun. But the way the law has gone they are scared of being sued!

Suckler

Muckit wrote: »

I can't see how this wouldn't work.

Isn't it so sad though that this is the way things are gone? Like base price said most farmers would love to show a bit of goodwill and let people who dont have access to land have a bit of fun. But the way the law has gone they are scared of being sued!

That's not the law; it's people not being held accountable for their own actions.
Edit - Or people accepting the results of their own stupidity most of the time.

alps

We're too caught up in worry over visitors and trespassers. If you have insurance, and it is adequate...why would you spend time worrying. ..isn't that what you pay the insurance company to do?

Looking for trouble here, but has there been an example of a trespasser/walker/hunter successfully suing a farmer for something that the farmer could not have been reasonably responsible for?

Mooooo

I'd say op coillte would be a good bet, give them a shout.

Genghis Cant

Mooooo wrote: »

I'd say op coillte would be a good bet, give them a shout.

You can get an annual Recreational Permit from Coillte. It costs, from memory, €350 pa.
They need to see insurance and will have terms and conditions. But it certainly is worth exploring the possibility.
Edit: Check out Countryside Alliance for insurance, I was made aware that they may offer cover for a range of countryside activities.

Base price

wellhorsebox wrote: »

Ya I understand that can be a problem do you know would a written agreement work? as in if I said i took full responsibility and not hold the farmer accountable I hurt myself? would that be ok legally?

Unfortunately I think you need the appropriate insurance cover in order to indemnify the land owner.

blue5000

I think as landowners we are way too lax on what can be done with our resources, here we have this guy wanting to come in, and us afraid to let anyone in because of fear of being sued, never mind what pathogens he might bring in on his feet.

There must be some happy medium where we can 'sell' our natural resource and he can come in to appreciate what we have. OP are you willing to pay for the privilege, and get your own insurance? Or does that open up an even bigger can of worms?

wellhorsebox

blue5000 wrote: »

I think as landowners we are way too lax on what can be done with our resources, here we have this guy wanting to come in, and us afraid to let anyone in because of fear of being sued, never mind what pathogens he might bring in on his feet.

There must be some happy medium where we can 'sell' our natural resource and he can come in to appreciate what we have. OP are you willing to pay for the privilege, and get your own insurance? Or does that open up an even bigger can of worms?

I dont know, I suppose it depends on how much. In my original post i offered labour in return. I would have no problem getting insurance another poster suggested i join the countryside alliance. I am already a member of that but i thought they just covered hunting shooting and fishing sports. I know there are some bushcraft clubs affiliated with mountaneering ireland. If they have insurance cover that covers bushcraft id join that or get private insurance

wellhorsebox

blue5000 wrote: »

I think as landowners we are way too lax on what can be done with our resources, here we have this guy wanting to come in, and us afraid to let anyone in because of fear of being sued, never mind what pathogens he might bring in on his feet.

There must be some happy medium where we can 'sell' our natural resource and he can come in to appreciate what we have. OP are you willing to pay for the privilege, and get your own insurance? Or does that open up an even bigger can of worms?

I dont know, I suppose it depends on how much. In my original post i offered labour in return. I would have no problem getting insurance another poster suggested i join the countryside alliance. I am already a member of that but i thought they just covered hunting shooting and fishing sports. I know there are some bushcraft clubs affiliated with mountaneering ireland. If they have insurance cover that covers bushcraft id join that or get private insurance

patsy_mccabe

alps wrote: »

....there been an example of a trespasser/walker/hunter successfully suing a farmer for something that the farmer could not have been reasonably responsible for?

Would you have the details of this, a link maybe? Cheers.

alps

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Would you have the details of this, a link maybe? Cheers.

No Patsy, just wondering if anyone knows of any precedence in this regard.....

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

blue5000 wrote: »

OP are you willing to pay for the privilege, and get your own insurance? Or does that open up an even bigger can of worms?

That definitely opens a big can of worms for the farmer. In that situation you are entering a contract with the farmer. The farmer then owes him a duty of care while on the land. Anything goes wrong the poor farmer will be handing over the keys.

Its a shame that's the road we are gone down. Its people's mindset these days that there must be somebody to pay for their stupidity.

XR3i

wellhorsebox wrote: »

Hi

I am looking for permission to access woodland areas to practice my witchcraft skills. Preferably around Tipp or midlands but I am willing to travel further. I would leave the area with little or no trace if possible. I am willing to help out around the farm in return, I am a carpenter.

Obviously before permission is giving I am willing to meet up to get acquainted and to do whatever is required to gain your trust.

Thanks

we don't like witcvhcraft around these here parts

XR3i

XR3i wrote: »

we don't like witcvhcraft around these here parts

Unless you are divining.

wellhorsebox

ZETOR_IS_BETTER wrote: »

That definitely opens a big can of worms for the farmer. In that situation you are entering a contract with the farmer. The farmer then owes him a duty of care while on the land. Anything goes wrong the poor farmer will be handing over the keys.

Its a shame that's the road we are gone down. Its people's mindset these days that there must be somebody to pay for their stupidity.

I hope when you say him you mean in broad terms and not me personally. I can only speak for myself and i definitely wouldnt claim or complain if something happened i was reared properly

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

wellhorsebox wrote: »

I hope when you say him you mean in broad terms and not me personally. I can only speak for myself and i definitely wouldnt claim or complain if something happened i was reared properly

just to be clear on my part I was not speaking about you. I was talking about why everything we do needs insurance and to have somebody responsible to pay up if someone hurts themselves doing foolish things.

alps

ZETOR_IS_BETTER wrote: »

. Anything goes wrong the poor farmer will be handing over the key.

Crying Wolf.....

Will not ...does not happen when adequately insured....that's what the insurance is for...

Handing over the key might be connected with other issues ...bad business decisions, bad relationships, but not things you have insured for...

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

alps wrote: »

Crying Wolf.....

Will not ...does not happen when adequately insured....that's what the insurance is for...

Handing over the key might be connected with other issues ...bad business decisions, bad relationships, but not things you have insured for...

A figure of speech.....

When there is a significant claim on your insurance, I wonder who is gonna pay the high premium come renewal?

robp

alps wrote: »

We're too caught up in worry over visitors and trespassers. If you have insurance, and it is adequate...why would you spend time worrying. ..isn't that what you pay the insurance company to do?

Looking for trouble here, but has there been an example of a trespasser/walker/hunter successfully suing a farmer for something that the farmer could not have been reasonably responsible for?

I think nearly no woodsmen would ever even considering suing as they take a very long term view, but there is the rare hiker case. There is the recent appalling case of an extremely selfish hiker suing the Irish National Parks and Wildlife Service 40,000 for uneven surfaces on a boardwalk on the Wicklow Way. Just unbelievable. https://www.theramblers.ie/hill-walker-seeking-damages-npws/