Questions after new window installation

Some_randomer

I know this isn't quite DIY but it's the closest I can find

I got two new windows in my apartment a few days ago and wanted to get some feedback on them. I haven't seen them yet as I don't live in Dublin and the apartment is rented out, but I asked a friend to go around and send me some pics. The pics aren't great but might give some idea of what the windows are like.

They look ok from the inside but from the outside things look a bit weird. My friend said there's about a 5 cm gap between the bottom of each window frame and the window sill, with both of them screwed in place. The 2nd and 3rd pics show the gap from the outside, and the 4th pic shows where the frame is screwed into the window sill.

To me this gap and the way the window is screwed in doesn't look right, so before I go back and talk to the window company I wanted to ask if this is normal or if there's a reason it might be like this.

Sleeper12

They didn't plaster the window surround. They just stuck PVC strips on instead. Not a good sign.

Calahonda52

This is a new way of replacing windows which is designed to eliminate the need for hacking out the reveal to fit the new window.
A pity you don't show what was done on the outside reveals and the head: I presume its the same with the plastic strips as on inside with a few tubes of silicone.

Some_randomer

Calahonda52 wrote: »

A pity you don't show what was done on the outside reveals and the head: I presume its the same with the plastic strips as on inside with a few tubes of silicone.

Good question I'd b interested also. The apartment is on the third floor and my friend said it wasn't easy to take pictures of the outside.

What's the proper way to do them on the outside?

Calahonda52

The window is essentially made small enough to fit in without too much hacking and making good afterwards so the plastic slips are used to essentially narrow the ope and cover up any gaps.
I expect the outside part of the frame to be shoved right out to the concrete reveal and sealed with silicone, I think thats what I see in picture 2

My main concern is air and window and rain tightness, especially under the sill.
The window sill was not removed as you can see so that why the window is sitting up high.

I got one done recently, it was done this way as well, came as surprise to me as its not what I expected: I will look at it from the outside once the rain stops

TopTec

A shoddy botched install is what that is. There should at least be packers underneath and the outside cill prepped before the fitting so that large gap underneath didn't happen. The fitting screws inside the frame are too proud and I bet the glass unit is sitting on them.

The inside strip are not fitting properly, probably because the glass is not sitting correctly in the frame.

Take or send the pics to the company and tell em to come and do it right. Have you paid in full?

TT

Some_randomer

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I got one done recently, it was done this way as well, came as surprise to me as its not what I expected: I will look at it from the outside once the rain stops

Thanks would be good to hear how yours was done.

TopTec wrote: »

A shoddy botched install is what that is. There should at least be packers underneath and the outside cill prepped before the fitting so that large gap underneath didn't happen. The fitting screws inside the frame are too proud and I bet the glass unit is sitting on them.

The inside strip are not fitting properly, probably because the glass is not sitting correctly in the frame.

Take or send the pics to the company and tell em to come and do it right. Have you paid in full?

TT

Hi thanks for the feedback, my initial thoughts were also that it's a bit of a cock up. I haven't paid yet so hopefully that'll give me some leverage.

- There should at least be packers underneath
There are some red plastic looking things that from the pics seem to be between the frame and the outside cill. I'm not sure if these are the packers you mean but I've attached pics of them.

- the outside cill prepped before the fitting so that large gap underneath didn't happen
What prep should have been done? Would the fact that the apartment is on the 3rd floor make the prep difficult or impossible to do, or have any impact on how the windows were fitted?

Bonzo Delaney

This is the way windows are fitted now. The majority of companies are doing it this way to save site time. Personally I'd rather have a bit of coverage on the outside reveal the the inside skimmed back in. But lads are fitting out a whole house by the time it takes to finish one window properly. What I have seen done is there's usually a cover slip inserted behind the drip mould to cover the gap between the window and sill and sealed after. If this was done your window wouldn't look as unfinished.

Sleeper12

The problem is its totally fitted wrong. They should have cut into the wall and removed the window board. To cut these corners they made a smaller window than should have been fitted. Window board should have been replaced. window surround & around the window should have been plastered.
Because the window is smaller than the old one all around the window would need filling & sealing. There's no way of knowing if this was done but I'd guess not, judging by the photo of the bottom of the window.
You can have the best window and glass in the world but it will be useless if not fitted correctly

Bonzo Delaney

Just had another quick look at the pictures they could of at least sealed between the reveal slips and the window frames, shocking finish.

Calahonda52

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

This is the way windows are fitted now. The majority of companies are doing it this way to save site time. Personally I'd rather have a bit of coverage on the outside reveal the the inside skimmed back in. But lads are fitting out a whole house by the time it takes to finish one window properly. What I have seen done is there's usually a cover slip inserted behind the drip mould to cover the gap between the window and sill and sealed after. If this was done your window wouldn't look as unfinished.

This is what mine looks like.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The problem is its totally fitted wrong. They should have cut into the wall and removed the window board. To cut these corners they made a smaller window than should have been fitted. Window board should have been replaced. window surround & around the window should have been plastered.
Because the window is smaller than the old one all around the window would need filling & sealing. There's no way of knowing if this was done but I'd guess not, judging by the photo of the bottom of the window.
You can have the best window and glass in the world but it will be useless if not fitted correctly

What this shows is the need to ask how will the new window be fitted.

Some_randomer

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Just had another quick look at the pictures they could of at least sealed between the reveal slips and the window frames, shocking finish.

Thanks for the update. Probably a dumb question but what exactly are the reveal slips?

Bonzo Delaney

On the inside where the window frame meets the wall sides. There's a gap where it should of been tidyed up with silicone.
Before anyone says anything I agree they shouldn't be there in the first place and I wouldn't have it on my jobs. But the fact is its done the way it is and should of been finished better

Some_randomer

Ok so I'm about to write an email to the company saying I'm not happy with the way the windows were installed. I'd be grateful if someone could advise me on what to say or what to ask for.

- I doubt if they'll remove the windows and do the whole thing again i.e. cut into the wall and remove the window board, but should I insist that they do this?

- If it's not realistic to fully re-fit them, should I ask them to remove the PVC strips on the inside and plaster around the frames?

- What can / should be done to fix the gap on the outside between the frame and the cill?

- Anything else I should ask for / insist on?


TIA

Bonzo Delaney

Some_randomer wrote: »

Ok so I'm about to write an email to the company saying I'm not happy with the way the windows were installed. I'd be grateful if someone could advise me on what to say or what to ask for.

- I doubt if they'll remove the windows and do the whole thing again i.e. cut into the wall and remove the window board, but should I insist that they do this?

- If it's not realistic to fully re-fit them, should I ask them to remove the PVC strips on the inside and plaster around the frames?

- What can / should be done to fix the gap on the outside between the frame and the cill?

- Anything else I should ask for / insist on?


TIA

Probably mention that it doesn't match in with any of the other windows in the apartment as there isn't any slips on any other Windows and that your worried about draughts with this method of finish. You could also play dumb and say it looks as if the replacement window was measured wrong and because it's too small ,the slips were put in to hide the gaps. And also worried about insects gettin in between the outside Cill and the underside of the replacement window.

Some_randomer

Ok so I got some more pics showing the outside of the windows, hopefully this will give a better idea of the gap between the frame and the cill.

I emailed the guy and told him the issues, and he replied saying "the PVC slips are so you don't have to paint the reveals. I will remove them to amend this problem for you".

So I'm going to reply again to tell him what I want done.

- should I ask him to remove the PVC strips or leave them as they are?
- looking at the new pics of the outside of the frame, does the gap need to be sealed? What's the best way of doing this?
- anything else I should be asking for?

TIA

tabby aspreme

Ask him why the screws he put into the sill are not galvanized .
Do any of the people on here know if the current building regs have a specification for retro fitting windows

TopTec

With a better view from the outside the cill gap doesn't look as bad as it did in close up. Having said that the gap needs dealing with, some foam and trim would neaten it up and prevent dirt and rubbish building up inside.

The inside beads need sorting out. If it is because the glass isn't seated properly I would also wonder if that single screw underneath is warping the frame slightly.

The inside is largely a matter of preference. Remove the strips and finish the reveals properly or leave as is.

Still a shoddy job though and yuo would probably have to stand over the lazy sods to make sure it is one to your satisfaction.

TT

Some_randomer

TopTec wrote: »

The inside beads need sorting out. If it is because the glass isn't seated properly I would also wonder if that single screw underneath is warping the frame slightly.
TT

You're right it doesn't look quite as bad with the new pics. I think I'll ask him to leave the trim on the inside. He said he put it there just so I wouldn't have to paint around the frame.

Can I ask what you mean by "the inside beads need sorting out"?

TIA

TopTec

The inside beading that holds the glass in doesn't fit properly. The bead strips should twist/snap in flush with a nice neat fit. One of your pictures shows the bottom of the strips sticking out slightly. It might just need snapping in properly but sometimes this could indicate that the glass isn't sitting correctly.

If the glass is not sitting properly then one of the reasons can be a slight warping of the frame due to the fitting screws or clips done up too tightly. That screw under the frame isn't always necessary but there should be packers, ( those red plastic strips) underneath supporting the weight of the frame, thus preventing any warping.

TT

Some_randomer

TopTec wrote: »

The inside beading that holds the glass in doesn't fit properly. The bead strips should twist/snap in flush with a nice neat fit. One of your pictures shows the bottom of the strips sticking out slightly. It might just need snapping in properly but sometimes this could indicate that the glass isn't sitting correctly.

If the glass is not sitting properly then one of the reasons can be a slight warping of the frame due to the fitting screws or clips done up too tightly. That screw under the frame isn't always necessary but there should be packers, ( those red plastic strips) underneath supporting the weight of the frame, thus preventing any warping.

TT

Nice one TT thanks a lot.. you're the first person to mention that.

Now I'm worried again..

TopTec

Some_randomer wrote: »

Now I'm worried again..

Don't be. Its a 2 minute job to snap them in. There is a technique to it, a twist of the wrist is all. If they are not setd properly there is no point in having double glazing as here will be a permanent draught there.

TT

dathi

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Do any of the people on here know if the current building regs have a specification for retro fitting windows

not realy part L says the u value should be 1.6 w/m2k and a bead of sealant should be placed between reveal and window (externally)
and part D gives instruction about the height below which safety glass has to be used