Legal to bike without IBT fully completed ?

pudzey101

Hi all quick question im currently insured and have 12 hours IBT done (waiting to do the last few hours for 3 weeks) my instructor said get as much practice on the roads and out and about before our next meeting

Was told today by a fellow biker that i shoudnt be out on the road until i have my IBT in my hand ?

Who's in the right here ?

cantdecide

You need to complete IBT to 'validate' your learner category. The permit is only issued to you so that you can undertake IBT under the care of an instructor.

I know there are boatloads of dopes flying around the place in cars having don't no more than gotten a theory test and their pic snapped at the NDLS office let alone getting EDT done but as far as I'm concerned, you must be under the care of instructor until you've completed your training.

You'll hear tons of bar stool theories especially around insurance in the case of an accident and what a Guard might or might not ask you but frankly, when you're so close to the end of your training, I just wouldn't chance it.

nibtrix

The same way the people with learner permits are illegal to drive alone you are illegal to drive without completing your hours. Yes, most people do it. Yes, it's still against the law.

My car instructor told me to out and get loads of practice alone. I did it, but it's still illegal.

pudzey101

So iv been driving around the past 3 weeks illegally :O Think its time to park up so .... so basically im not insured untill my hours are done ?

cantdecide

pudzey101 wrote: »

So iv been driving around the past 3 weeks illegally :O

My understanding is yes, tbh.

pudzey101 wrote: »

.... so basically im not insured untill my hours are done ?

No one can answer that only your insurance company but I wouldn't exactly ring and ask them. I'm just saying that if you like to stay on the right side of the law, I'd give it a miss until you have the cert in your hand to be safe.

pudzey101

sound everyone was under the impression your good to go once started IBT . didnt know i had to have the full 18 hours done

Rusty Nordy

pudzey101 wrote: »

sound everyone was under the impression your good to go once started IBT . didnt know i had thate the full 18 hours done

I was told the same thing by my instructor other day, he wants me to drive the bike to his location for training. He says that he will cover me for this?

MSVforever

Jesus lads.... what kind of instructors are they... In order to be allowed on the road you have to have a cerificate of satisfactory completion from your instructor which you will be given once you have finished the 18 hours. You ve to sign some RSA paperwork as well. You then need to carry the learner permit and above cert with you all the time. Don't forget to wear your L-vest as well.

Del2005

cantdecide wrote: »

No one can answer that only your insurance company but I wouldn't exactly ring and ask them. I'm just saying that if you like to stay on the right side of the law, I'd give it a miss until you have the cert in your hand to be safe.

It's the usual Irish solution to an Irish problem. You aren't licenced till you've completed the IBT so therefore you can't be insured, but like unaccompanied car drivers the insurance company will cover 3rd party payouts and while legally they have the option to recoup the costs from the uninsured person they haven't yet.

Rusty Nordy

found this on another forum-

The insurance company issued a policy. They can't use the fact that the driver was unlicensed, or the mechanical condition of the vehicle, or misrepresentations made by the insured to them prior to issuing the policy to avoid paying the injured third party. they can sue their own insured to recover the payout.
S76 1 e RTA 1961
( e ) the insurer or guarantor shall not, as a ground for refusing payment of moneys to the claimant or as a defence to proceedings by the claimant, rely on or plead any invalidity of the policy or guarantee arising from any fraud or any misrepresentation or false statement (whether fraudulent or innocent) to which the claimant was not a party or privy and which, if constituting a misdemeanour under this Part of this Act, was not the subject of a prosecution and conviction under the relevant section of this Act.

S.I. No. 321/1987
These Regulations amend the First Schedule to the Road Traffic (Compulsory Insurance) Regulations, 1962 [ S.I. No. 14 of 1962 ] to prevent insurers from refusing or reducing a claim by a third party victim of an accident where the driver of an insured vehicle did not have the consent of a named person or the driver did not hold a valid driver's licence or, where appropriate, a public service vehicle licence. The effect of this will be to transfer liability for relevant compensation claims from the Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland (MIBI) to motor insurers

gerrowadat

Rusty Nordy wrote: »

found this on another forum-

The insurance company issued a policy. They can't use the fact that the driver was unlicensed, or the mechanical condition of the vehicle, or misrepresentations made by the insured to them prior to issuing the policy to avoid paying the injured third party. they can sue their own insured to recover the payout.
S76 1 e RTA 1961
( e ) the insurer or guarantor shall not, as a ground for refusing payment of moneys to the claimant or as a defence to proceedings by the claimant, rely on or plead any invalidity of the policy or guarantee arising from any fraud or any misrepresentation or false statement (whether fraudulent or innocent) to which the claimant was not a party or privy and which, if constituting a misdemeanour under this Part of this Act, was not the subject of a prosecution and conviction under the relevant section of this Act.

S.I. No. 321/1987
These Regulations amend the First Schedule to the Road Traffic (Compulsory Insurance) Regulations, 1962 [ S.I. No. 14 of 1962 ] to prevent insurers from refusing or reducing a claim by a third party victim of an accident where the driver of an insured vehicle did not have the consent of a named person or the driver did not hold a valid driver's licence or, where appropriate, a public service vehicle licence. The effect of this will be to transfer liability for relevant compensation claims from the Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland (MIBI) to motor insurers

How that reads to me is that you won't get done for no insurance, but any third party claims against you will eventually come out of your pocket (and then some, for legal fees -- getting sued is bad craic). You'll also likely get done for driving without a license if caught, even if you don't have an accident.

So all having third party insurance without an IBT cert really counts for is avoiding a driving without insurance charge (which in fairness is pretty hardcore, like driving ban for first offense type of hardcore).

Paulw

gerrowadat wrote: »

So all having third party insurance without an IBT cert really counts for is avoiding a driving without insurance charge (which in fairness is pretty hardcore, like driving ban for first offense type of hardcore).

You can actually get jail time for driving without insurance.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/driver-is-imprisoned-for-having-no-car-insurance-1.2583647

But, yeah, insurance will cover 3rd party payouts, but they will then come after you for that, plus all associated costs.

It's a very poor instructor that would advise you to ride without having your IBT completed. You might want to query that with the RSA. :eek:

cadete

any idea what the answer to this is then lads?
Yes your insured technically but in the event of an accident the insurance company COULD come after you?
And in the case of being stopped am I covered? If I show my policy could a Garda also ask to see ibt?

Paulw

cadete wrote: »

Yes your insured technically but in the event of an accident the insurance company COULD come after you?
And in the case of being stopped am I covered? If I show my policy could a Garda also ask to see ibt?

Yes, unlikely and yes.

You have an insurance policy, but the insurance company will only pay 3rd party and will then come after you for any/all fees.

You would need to check with your insurance company if you are covered, as per their terms and conditions. It is unlikely that they will say you are covered.

A Garda can ask to see your IBT cert, since you are supposed to have it with you, in conjunction with your learner permit. It's the combination of both that allow you to ride on the road.

Lumen

I think the real solution here is just to book all of your IBT sessions in advance reasonably close to one another.

It's just not worth the possible hole-opening to be riding around illegally.

That said, everyone breaks laws, curses other lawbreakers but discounts the ones they themselves break.

Del2005

Paulw wrote: »

You have an insurance policy, but the insurance company will only pay 3rd party and will then come after you for any/all fees.

I've yet to hear of this happening. Though in fear of it being me I did restrict my bike till the 2 years of 33bhp was up.