Is Judy Johanna? A detective story.

oceanclub

Before he passed away, my dad had mentioned the Wixteds as a family we were married into. (I took down notes at the time but lost them sadly.)

So here's the facts:
1. My great-grandfather's name was definitely Paul; comes from his son Paul's (born 1877 in Murroe) marriage cert
2. Can only find one Paul Moloney born in the period 1820 to 1860; born 1839 (spelled Molony); also born in Murroe & Boher so assume that must be him.
3. Searching all marriages for 1855 - 1895, for Paul Moloney, find a single one (both civil and religious records); a marriage to a Judy Wixted, again in Murroe & Boher. His father is shown as "Jer/Jerry" - I know my father also had a brother Jeremiah (oldest) so fits in with it being a family name. And again, Wixted ties in with what my father said.

I then looked at all baptisms in the 20 years after their marriage with Paul Moloney as the father; that is, all my great-grandfather's possible children including my grandfather.

tion Source Surname First Name Year County
View Church Baptism Molony Paul 1877 Co. Limerick
View Church Baptism Molony William 1875 Co. Limerick
View Church Baptism Molony James 1880 Co. Limerick
View Church Baptism Molony Daniel 1872 Co. Limerick
View Church Baptism Molony John 1870 Co. Limerick
View Church Baptism Molony Jeremiah 1868 Co. Limerick

Again, all are from Murroe & Boher. So far so good.

HOWEVER...

William's mother is marked as Johanna Wixted. Paul's is Joanna. James is Johanna. Daniel is Judith. John is Johanna. EDIT: Jeremiah is Judy.

To recap:

Surname|Name|Year|Parents|Sponsors
Molony |Jeremiah|1868|Paul Molony/Judy Wixted|Timothy Magrath & Mary Wixted
Molony|John|1870|Paul Molony/Johanna Wixted|John Wixted & Bridget Rainsford
Molony|Daniel |1872|Paul Molony/Judith Wixted|Thomas Connell & Mgt. Molony
Molony|William|1875|Paul Molony/Johanna Wixted|John Molony & Bridget Ransford
Molony|Paul|1877|Paul Molony/Joanna Wixted|Thomas Moloney & Mgt. Moloney
Molony|James|1880|Paul Molony/Johanna Wixted|Jeremiah Moloney & Mgt. Moloney



Paul, Daniel and James do perhaps share the same sponsor, Margaret Moloney. William and John share the same sponsor, Bridget Ransford, who was also a witness at the wedding of Paul & Judy. So there's a direct link between a baptism to an offspring of Paul/Judy and to offspring of Paul/Joanna.

Also, my father's oldest sisters was christened Johanna.

Other info:

Baptisms:

Found Judy Wixteds born 1813 and 1816, and 1846.
Found Judith born 1832, 1835, 1837, 1843, 1848,
One N/R for first name
I can't find a Joanna Wixted baptism 1820 to 1860

Marriages:

I can't find a Johanna/Joanna Wixted marriage 1840 to 1880
I can't find a Paul Moloney/Joanna Wixted wedding
I can only find a single Wixted wedding to Moloney - Judy Wixted to Paul Moloney
The only Joanna Wixteds that I can find were different county/different husbands

If you got to this point, I thank you for your attention! Based on _all_ the above, is it safe to assume that the marriage of Paul Moloney to Judy Wixted is indeed of my great-grandfather/grandmother and that she used "Johanna" at some point, a name then used by my grandfather/mother for their eldest daughter (Judy's grandchild)?

dos1965

I see they are in the 1901 census with 'Johanna' listed as mother and the ages match, Ashroe is near Murroe as far as I know.

Residents of a house 9 in Ashroe (Glenstal, Limerick)

Show all information


Surname

Forename

Age

Sex

Relation to head

Religion

Birthplace

Occupation

Literacy

Irish Language

Marital Status

Specified Illnesses


Moloney Paul 65 Male Head of Family R Catholic Co Limerick Farmer Read and write - Married -
Moloney Johanna 56 Female Wife R Catholic Co Limerick - Read and write - Married -
Moloney John 32 Male Son R Catholic Co Limerick General Labourer Read and write - Not Married -
Moloney Daniel 31 Male Son R Catholic Co Limerick General Labourer Read and write - Married -
Moloney Paul 26 Male Son R Catholic Co Limerick General Labourer Read and write - Not Married -
Moloney James 20 Male Son R Catholic Co Limerick General Labourer Read and write - Not Married

dos1965

And is 1911 census they are married 43 years, ties to this marriage record

Name JUDY WIXTED
Date of Event 1867
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Limerick
Returns Year 1867
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 20
Returns Page No 276

oceanclub

Of course - no idea why I didn't try to cross-index with the census. I think I did look it up at some point but didn't get a match.

So yeah, the ages of Daniel, John, Paul Jr and James in the census all match perfectly with the dates of the aforementioned births to both Paul/Judy, Paul/Judith and Paul/Johanna; I'd say the chances of Judy not being Johanna is a million to one.

Thanks!

P.

dos1965

Delighted to give a steer Paul. The census had the e in Moloney as you spell it today but of course without in the earlier records. Happy hunting.

KildareFan

Looks like Judy/Johanna may be the same. Generally Judith is often Julia/Judy. But it's not uncommon to be called by more than one name. None of my family is called by the name on their birth cert.

oceanclub

Another link from dos1965 via Twitter conclusively proves this IMO:

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/countries/topics/ireland/10812/

According to Patrick Woulfe, Johanna and Judy are variations of the Gaelic name Siobán (note that the "b" is aspirated and the "a" accented) and would be written in the Roman alphabet as Siobhan. Here is what Woulfe had to say about the name on p.217 of his "Book Irish Names and Surnames":

Sioban, Joan, Johanna, Hannah, (Julia, July Judith, Judy, Jude, Susanna, Susan, Nonie); the feminine form of Joannes, or John (v. Eoin and Sean), which became common in France in the 12th century as Jahanne and Jeanne, and in England as Joan; brought into Ireland by the Anglo-Normans, where it has ever since been one of the most popular of woman's names. Lat. Joanna.

This would suggest that Johanna and Judy are derivations of the feminine form of the Gaelic for John. It was quite common in Irish families, for a person to have an official name and then to have a "pet" name which was used within the family, with the official and "pet" names having a common Gaelic root.

tabbey

Judith and Johanna have been interchangeable, at least in Tipperary.

Years ago, a woman connected to my ancestors was Judith/Judi in her marriage parish record, as well the baptisms of her children.

I was fairly sure a headstone belonged to her and her husband, but it gave her name as Johanna.

One day I googled Judith Johanna, what came up was Matheson/s book of 1909?, quoting a registrar reporting that these names were used interchangeably in his district.

Johanna is certainly the feminine of Johanno (abbreviated as Jno), the Latin for John. Judith & Johanna were very popular in parts of Munster, especially Tipperary/

It is interesting that Susan is also considered a variant.