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  • 18-08-2016 9:07pm
    #1
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭


    Very quick query...
    Hired an architect and gave a budget for an extension we wanted, he told us hed be confident of getting what we wanted within our budget... fast forward planning and tendering process and the cheapest qoute is 25% over our max budget... very unhappy with this... do we have any legal comeback to get a refund seeing as what he promised he could deliver is not possible ?...


Comments

  • #2
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Did s/he have any explanation why the job has come in 25% over?

    Two options to consider...go to tender again to other builders...or...sit down with the lowest tendering builder to see where savings might be made?

    When did you start on the project (i.e. when did you appoint the architect)?

    One problem, these days, is simple supply and demand in relation to builders...lots of demand for builders, so, tender prices tend to be on the up. In addition, builders have a lot more labour, material and sub-contractor costs.

    In a rising market/cost situation it can be very hard to get estimation correct, especially if based on historic costs/past similar projects.


  • #3
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    boardie100 wrote: »
    Very quick query...
    Hired an architect and gave a budget for an extension we wanted, he told us hed be confident of getting what we wanted within our budget... fast forward planning and tendering process and the cheapest qoute is 25% over our max budget... very unhappy with this... do we have any legal comeback to get a refund seeing as what he promised he could deliver is not possible ?...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100132193

    Didn't you like the answers you got last month?


  • #4
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    BryanF wrote: »
    boardie100 wrote: »
    Very quick query...
    Hired an architect and gave a budget for an extension we wanted, he told us hed be confident of getting what we wanted within our budget... fast forward planning and tendering process and the cheapest qoute is 25% over our max budget... very unhappy with this... do we have any legal comeback to get a refund seeing as what he promised he could deliver is not possible ?...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100132193

    Didn't you like the answers you got last month?

    apologies, i should have replied in that thread...


  • #5
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    boardie100 wrote: »
    apologies, i should have replied in that thread...

    What was your reply going to be?
    Prices most likely will jump again by the time you start so you may need to revisit the tender again as its already been a month since you posted the same thread.


  • #6
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    Did s/he have any explanation why the job has come in 25% over?

    - Not really...not one were happy with anyway

    Two options to consider...go to tender again to other builders...or...sit down with the lowest tendering builder to see where savings might be made?

    - so he went back to the lowest tenders with a list of possible savings (a decent sized list) that he was very confident that would mean the project would come back into our budget(without reducing design space).... new tenders still came back around 17% over our max budget... we could go to more builders but we've been to quite a few already so wouldnt be confident on that

    When did you start on the project (i.e. when did you appoint the architect)?

    - last October

    One problem, these days, is simple supply and demand in relation to builders...lots of demand for builders, so, tender prices tend to be on the up. In addition, builders have a lot more labour, material and sub-contractor costs.

    - I understand this completely but from my point of view seeing as he is quite busy all the time, he would have his finger on the pulse so to speak and not be surprised when the prices came back the way they did...

    In a rising market/cost situation it can be very hard to get estimation correct, especially if based on historic costs/past similar projects.


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  • #7
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    sorry, having problems quoting....see reply above...
    I guess my real question is.... is there any legal basis to say 'you failed to deliver, i want my money back' if it comes to it?....


  • #8
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,171 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    boardie100 wrote: »
    sorry, having problems quoting....see reply above...
    I guess my real question is.... is there any legal basis to say 'you failed to deliver, i want my money back' if it comes to it?....

    unless there was something specific in a contract which tied the architect to the tender price, i dont think so.

    its not something new... look at the whole first series of 'Room to improve' where the tender prices always inevitably came in above what the clients had said was their budget.

    i can have some sympathy for the architect because when designing for extensions there are quite a few unknowns that can occur.
    the pricing structure should take that into account however, as at least 10% should be held for contingency during the super structure stage. Whatever savings in contingency exist after this, can be put back into improving the finishes spec.


  • #9
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    yeah i watch room to improve and they end costs do come in a lot over budget but thats while the building is ongoing these increased costs come in.... we havent even started the build! ... so my worry is that it will be even more than this...

    Surely in all those builds the builder has tendered initially within their budget?....


  • #10
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Your architect gave you an estimate at intiail sketch design stage? if you had of gone to a Qs at sketch design stage s/he would have caveated 'without full detailed design drawings this is a +/- 20% estimate.

    And estimate is not a quote. Your architect should have explained that. But you should have known that with all the home shows you watch..

    The quote was 20% over the estimate.


  • #11
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    BryanF wrote: »
    Your architect gave you an estimate at intiail sketch design stage? if you had of gone to a Qs at sketch design stage s/he would have caveated 'without full detailed design drawings this is a +/- 20% estimate.

    And estimate is not a quote. Your architect should have explained that. But you should have known that with all the home shows you watch..

    The quote was 20% over the estimate.

    Well no he did up detailed drawings based on what we told him our budget was saying he was very confident the quotes he would get back would come into our budget .. I can understand its not an exact science but the quotes even with the scaled back costs are still a large amount over the budget.. So now we are left with plans that we might not be able to finance fully... Any changes to them may need planning permission again etc.. So I'm quite disheartened after it all and ready to throw my hat at it.... But I feel he hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain... And being greenhorns I feel all eventualities weren't explained to us


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  • #12
    boardie100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    BryanF wrote: »
    Your architect gave you an estimate at intiail sketch design stage? if you had of gone to a Qs at sketch design stage s/he would have caveated 'without full detailed design drawings this is a +/- 20% estimate.

    And estimate is not a quote. Your architect should have explained that. But you should have known that with all the home shows you watch..

    The quote was 20% over the estimate.

    I'd just like to add that just because I watch room to improve doesn't mean I should be aware of how the tendering process works... They never show that stuff


  • #13
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    boardie100 wrote: »
    Well no he did up detailed drawings based on what we told him our budget was saying he was very confident the quotes he would get back would come into our budget .. I can understand its not an exact science but the quotes even with the scaled back costs are still a large amount over the budget.. So now we are left with plans that we might not be able to finance fully... Any changes to them may need planning permission again etc.. So I'm quite disheartened after it all and ready to throw my hat at it.... But I feel he hasn't lived up to his end of the bargain... And being greenhorns I feel all eventualities weren't explained to us

    What was your budget ?
    What size is the house?
    What county?
    What Reno works to existing were required?
    What % of the cost was associated with the Reno? V extension?
    What contract was signed between you and the architect?
    What if any changes dos you choose to make from the moment the architect stated the design would fit your budget?

    Etc


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