Vw Golf DSG

LizzyBennet

Hi all Ive spotted a VW Golf I like the only problem is it has a DSG gearbox, which is completely new to me I've never even heard of it before. Contemplating going to look at the car. So Im wondering how they work , could I drive in manual all the time if I wanted to ? are they reliable ? any other input would be appreciated

Atlantic Dawn

You could drive it in "manual", basically this lets you manually change the gear without using a clutch by simply pressing the gearstick up or down to go higher or lower gears. From a comfort point of view your better just sticking it in drive and letting it change the gears itself.

They are reliable once the DSG gearbox oil has been changed at the recommended intervals, if it hasn't there could be problems.

bazz26

Why would you want to drive it in manual all the time? Most modern automatic gearboxes give you the option to select gears manually as well as doing it automatically but once you start driving an automatic you will find (at least I do) that you won't want to drive it in manual mode as often as you think now. The only exception I find is when I'm driving on nice twisty roads where I like to do the gear change.

But don't be apprehensive about driving a DSG or any modern automatic gearbox, once your brain gets used to it very quickly you may wonder why you didn't drive one before now. BTW the DSG box is very good but some versions of DSG have been troublesome in the past but I'm not too up to date on which versions - 6 speed or 7 speed.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

BTW the DSG box is very good but some versions of DSG have been troublesome in the past but I'm not too up to date on which versions - 6 speed or 7 speed.

7 speed DQ200 is problematic. It is still being fitted to everything smaller than 2.0TSI or 2.0TDI.

6 speed DQ250 is solid - typically coupled with 2.0TDI.

7 speed DQ380/DQ381 is very new, no reliability issues yet. Is slowly rolled out with 2.0TDI engines, but that would not be OP interest

Golfgorfield

grogi wrote: »

7 speed DQ200 is problematic. It is still being fitted to everything smaller than 2.0TSI or 2.0TDI.

6 speed DQ250 is solid - typically coupled with 2.0TDI.

7 speed DQ380/DQ381 is very new, no reliability issues yet. Is slowly rolled out with 2.0TDI engines, but that would not be OP interest

Can you elaborate on that for me please, have it in a 1.6tdi Seat and would like to know what to watch for. I have the 6 speed in another car.


OP : The DSG is possibly the best auto ive driven and ive had many autos, do not be put off thinking its an Automatic, think of it as a manual that changes itself! Once you change from manual you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner!

LizzyBennet

OSI wrote: »

What year and engine are you looking at? This will determine what work you need to look for on the service history and their reliability.

They're a dual-clutch semi-automatic gearbox and generally regarded as one of the better gearboxes available as they offer fast smooth gear changes and offer ratios and performance people are used to from manuals. You can drive around manually selecting the gears at all times, but honestly there'd be little point.

This is the car 2013

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2013-131-volkswagen-golf-1-4-tsi-dublin-fpa-4393266714142874881

bazz26

That car actually has a manual gearbox not DSG.

LizzyBennet

bazz26 wrote: »

That car actually has a manual gearbox not DSG.

its disappeared now off the site so i cant even check

grogi

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that for me please, have it in a 1.6tdi Seat and would like to know what to watch for. I have the 6 speed in another car.

DQ200 is a dry clutch auto-box - this allows slightly better efficiency, but comes at a price of reduced heat dissipation from the clutches. They are prone to overheating and burning, especially when fitted in heavier cars and in the stop-start traffic. I personally know a 1.8 Superb that already is on its third clutch-pack only after 50k miles.

Mechatronic unit in them is prone to failure too - VW claims that updated software solves the problem... Where did I heart that before...

George Dalton

grogi wrote: »

DQ200 is a dry clutch auto-box - this allows slightly better efficiency, but comes at a price of reduced heat dissipation from the clutches. They are prone to overheating and burning, especially when fitted in heavier cars and in the stop-start traffic. I personally know a 1.8 Superb that already is on its third clutch-pack only after 50k

We recently had a clutch issue with one of these. First we had seen. Several special tools are needed to change the clutch so we asked the dealer we buy our parts from for a loan of the tools. They didn't have them so we had to buy them. First clutch pack the dealer had ever had to supply. It would be logical to conclude that the fact that the dealer had never had to supply change one before indicates a low rate of failure.

kerten

George Dalton wrote: »

We recently had a clutch issue with one of these. First we had seen. Several special tools are needed to change the clutch so we asked the dealer we buy our parts from for a loan of the tools. They didn't have them so we had to buy them. First clutch pack the dealer had ever had to supply. It would be logical to conclude that the fact that the dealer had never had to supply change one before indicates a low rate of failure.

I think mild climate and traffic conditions hide weakness of 7 speed box in Ireland.

I am well aware of the issues that grogi mentioned from home city which has crazy stop start traffic and warmer climate.

So whoever buys vag cars with 7 speed box over there, invests into extended warranty by default

sebastianlieken

I have a DQ250 DSG on a MK6 GTI and it is better than good.

DSG isn't like a typical automatic transmission, DSG is a manual gearbox in which the gearshifts are controlled electronically. It has two seperate gear sets which are operated by two multi-plate clutches; the benefit being that while one gear is engaged, the next is already pre-selected awaiting power to be transferred. This pre-selection of gears makes it very fast, about 30-40ms (3-4 100ths of a second). Honestly the gear changes are almost imperceptible and alot faster than any human can clutch and change gear in a manual. Also, where conventional automatic transmissions have parasitic efficiency loss from torque converters "constantly slipping clutch", DSG transmissions don't as they transmit power the same way as a manual gearbox.

This point has been made already by grogi, but i'll say it again to emphasise his point;

DQ200 (7 speed) - reliability problems with the mechatronics unit (the bit that selects the gears). Just google DQ200 for more info.
DQ250 (6 speed) - No major reliability concerns, but again change tranny oil at recommended intervals.

Personally, having been driving a DQ250 DSG for a few months now, i'd find it a massive step backwards going back to a manual - I mean I like manuals and all, but honestly DSG is so much faster, gear changes cant be fluffed (in auto or using the flappy paddles), both hands on the wheel at all times, and I reckon the clutch will last longer actually as you get a perfect gearchange every time.

Esel

grogi wrote: »

DQ200 is a dry clutch auto-box - this allows slightly better efficiency, but comes at a price of reduced heat dissipation from the clutches. They are prone to overheating and burning, especially when fitted in heavier cars and in the stop-start traffic. I personally know a 1.8 Superb that already is on its third clutch-pack only after 50k miles.

Mechatronic unit in them is prone to failure too - VW claims that updated software solves the problem... Where did I heart that before...

That looks like two issues then.

A question from an interested but ignorant amateur:

If the clutch auto-box is dry (and prone to overheating), could it possibly be actively air-cooled (with appropriate filtering)? I'm thinking clean air passing (or being forced) through the box. Or effective fins on the exterior to radiate heat out (with an external fan to assist)?

Also, how does the Mechatronic unit fail?

grogi

sebastianlieken wrote: »

I have a DQ250 DSG on a MK6 GTI and it is better than good.

DSG isn't like a typical automatic transmission, DSG is a manual gearbox in which the gearshifts are controlled electronically. It has two seperate gear sets which are operated by two multi-plate clutches; the benefit being that while one gear is engaged, the next is already pre-selected awaiting power to be transferred. This pre-selection of gears makes it very fast, about 30-40ms (3-4 100ths of a second). Honestly the gear changes are almost imperceptible and alot faster than any human can clutch and change gear in a manual. Also, where conventional automatic transmissions have parasitic efficiency loss from torque converters "constantly slipping clutch", DSG transmissions don't as they transmit power the same way as a manual gearbox.

That might have been true twenty years ago, but not anymore...

For many years the torque converters come with lockup clutch - that provides stiff connection between engine and the gearbox itself. Different manufactures have different strategies when engaging that clutch - but typically it was engaged in 4th gear and above.

However the new generation of gearboxes - for instance boxes in SkyActive Mazda cars - use more aggressive lockup strategy, which combined with 6 or more gears brings the consumption down (compared to a manual). ZF 8-gear auto fit into BMW is excellent, fast and responsive too... For sure are not less efficient anymore...

grogi

Esel wrote: »

That looks like two issues then.

A question from an interested but ignorant amateur:

If the clutch auto-box is dry (and prone to overheating), could it possibly be actively air-cooled (with appropriate filtering)? I'm thinking clean air passing (or being forced) through the box. Or effective fins on the exterior to radiate heat out (with an external fan to assist)?

Also, how does the Mechatronic unit fail?

No idea really...

The gearbox is very tightly packed - so providing the airflow through might not be a feasible solution...

I have a a dsg in a gti.
absolutely love it.
its gotta be serviced tho so look for paper work.
Launch control ftw...........

noelf

I think Volksagen changed from synthetic oil to a mineral based oil as a cure for dsg issues ..

Notch000

what is the recommended servcie interval for DSG boxs ???

NIMAN

What sort of cost would be involved in the DSG box service?

Golfgorfield

NIMAN wrote: »

What sort of cost would be involved in the DSG box service?

I recently had it done at a main dealer, and it was €280, which i thought was pretty high tbh. A good indy should do it for less than 200 id imagine.

George Dalton

€175 would be about average outside of the dealer network.

sebastianlieken

semi thread revival, but wanted to put this in here:

I have a DQ250 DSG on a GTI MK6, my mate did a DSG reset and re-calibration with VCDS the other day... holy hell this is noticable!!!

There was never a problem at all with my DSG, I didn't even think I needed a reset; I was just having some VCDS tweaks and mods done and while it was plugged in we did it; I bought mine used at 45k so it "learned" from the previous owner. Post reset, slowing down to a stop and inching in traffic is completely smooth now, no judders (which I thought were just characteristic of DSG transmissions), plenty more benefits:

• Removes juddering at low speeds.
• Eliminates judder at low rpms.
• Eliminates late switchback (a noticeable delay before reverse gear is engaged)
• Super fast and smooth gearshifts
• Launch control, auto-shift bypass and increased redline
• Reliability improvement

the calibration can be done to the DQ200 aswell as the DQ250 (slightly different process for each) and it performs the following:

• The gear selector is calibrated.
• The synchronisation points are calibrated.
• Clutch adaption is calibrated.
• Main pressure adaption values are reset.
• Tiptronic switch in steering wheel is reset.
• ESP and CC are reset to ‘not recognised’.

It's a weird and slightly disconcerting process; It takes about 5 minutes and while you're holding in the brake peddle the whole time you can hear and feel the gearbox doing it's thing, making noise, clunking away, doing very mechanical things without you touching anything...

References for info:

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/6-Speed_Direct_Shift_Gearbox_(DSG/02E)

http://info.autometric.se/images/stories/FileLib/VAG_DSG_Gearbox.pdf

NIMAN

So if you buy a 2nd hand DSG car, its smoothness can be affected by the previous owners driving style?

Don't quite get this, surely if its a DSG box then it should have been doing all the driving itself, and as such any one driver shouldn't be able to make the box judder?

grogi

OSI wrote: »

It doesn't learn from the driving style. The adaptation is effectively getting the DSG to recalibrate the clutch pressure parameters etc. As the car and gearbox ages, the clutches and other parts will inevitably become worn and the optimum parameters will change, the adaptation allows the DSG to analyse all the parts and calculate those parameters.

It is weird that it does not adapt during the regular usage though.