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ATH Semi - Final #2 Surewhywouldntya vs Beakerjoe

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  • 17-08-2016 5:41pm
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    In the quarter finals The Son of Paul Heyman and Okada helped these two guys progress and now they face off in order to book a place in the final of this years competition.

    To get there they have to answer... Who Dunnit?
    The WWE have had many big angles throughout the years that had the audience wondering which superstar was the person behind it all. Whether it was knocking Austin down with a car, The Higher Power, The Mystery Raw GM, Mr McMahon's illegitimate son, Who was stalking Takers wife, who was behind GTV, raised the briefcase in the Vince vs Shane vs SCSA ladder match for control of the company... suffice to say there have been plenty such angles and unfortunately they have not always ended well (Damn Hornswaggle)... until now.

    You are tasked with re-booking one of these Whodunnit angles (can be one not mentioned above) for the better. How would you have booked it differently and why?

    then after your first answer why would your idea be better than your opponents?


    g'luck folks and have at it!

    Who should progress to the ATH Final? 5 votes

    BeakerJoe
    0% 0 votes
    Surewhywouldntya
    100% 5 votes


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,736 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    I’m going to rebook a whodunnit angle that had me very interested in it at the time, and that would be Mr McMahon’s illegitimate son. We all know it was supposed to be Mr Kennedy before his suspension, so I’ll be staying away from him, not the best choice imo anyway.

    There’s only one good and logical choice, and it’s Chicago Made

    It’s August 2007 and the scene is set after McMahon’s return to TV following his on screen death, saying he did it to flush out his illegitimate child from the wild, but was disappointed when they didn’t let themselves be known, this person knows they are the illegitimate child of Vinny Mac but seem to be ashamed of the fact. Jonathan Coachman is in contact with the woman, but she doesn’t want to be known. He can contact her sparingly, so he’s able to give details to Vince week by week. All the signs point to a certain member of the roster, and it’s actually Coach himself. Vince is delighted with this, he’s always got on with Coach in reality and things couldn’t have worked out better for him with the illegitimate son. Just as they look to be going to the back to finally bond, when all of a sudden This Fire Burns plays and out comes CM Punk. “Vince, I’m going to have to introduce you to someone you might know”, and out walks his mother and Vince nearly has heart attack. He’s going mad in the ring, he obviously knows something is up. “Hi Dad” says CM Punk waving to the man in the ring.

    Shock isn’t the word. Of all of the WWE superstars, why does it have to the cruiserweight with little muscle and all the tattoos being Vince’s son. Punk didn’t want it to be known he was Vince’s son, he wanted to make it to the top on his own. But now that it’s known, why not get a leg up in the wrestling world. He’s earned it at this stage. Punk is given a number 1 contender match for the WWE Title at No Mercy 2007, John Cena is the champ and won’t be getting injured in my world. He was given the match after persuasion with the GM William Regal, he doesn’t want to cross Vince when he’s only in his first few weeks in the job. Punk has signed the contract and he’s going to No Mercy, but Vince ain’t happy one bit. He’s denying Punk is his son, how could his loins, the genetic jackhammers loins produce that lump. He’s going to be bringing the closest thing he has to a 2nd son as Punk’s opponent, Triple H. The match is going much the way it’s expected, HHH has too much for Punk when suddenly it’s light’s out. Undertaker? Boogeyman? Actually it’s just HHH laying prone in the middle of the ring and Vince has a sledgehammer in his hand outside it. Punk makes the cover, 1-2-3.

    Turns out Vince thinks blood is thicker than water, and since Punk is showing real aptitude for wrestling he’s going to help get him to the top. He admires Punk for doing his own thing, and getting near the top without a leg up. But Vince isn’t going to give him a leg up, just the chances he deserves, or so he says. Punk is going on to Survivor Series to face John Cena one on one for the title. Cena isn’t worried, he never gives up, hustle loyalty respect blah de blah. He’s been champ since Sept ’06, nothing to laugh at. And it will take everything Punk and McMahon can throw at Cena, but Cena won’t defend the title unless it’s guaranteed McMahon won’t interfere on behalf of Punk. Vince says fine, Punk has far more ring time than Cena, he may be big match John but Punk has the ring experience. It’s written into the contract, Vince can’t interfere, Vince can’t. It’s another McMahon that will help Punk win the title. It’s an even match between Punk and Cena until the referee gets knocked down when Cena has Punk on his shoulders about to attempt an AA and Punk struggles, you get the scene. Cena doesn’t hit the AA, he just focuses on trying to revive the ref but to no avail. Punk then hits the GTS and Cena is down. Out comes Shane O Mac from the back, steel chair in hand. He’s about to finish off Cena, when he cracks Punk and pulls Cena onto him and wakes up the ref, and it’s 1-2-3 here. Cena retains.

    Shane explains that he told Vince he’d help out his half brother, but why would he help his father out. Shane was only a boy of 7/8 when Vince cheated on Linda with Punk’s mother on a wild night in Chicago in the late 70’s. Punk wants his revenge on his brother, and they’re going to have a match at Armageddon, Shane will only agree if it’s a no dq match, he wants to hurt Punk. Vince will be supporting Punk, Shane has turned his back on him before and could never get the job done in the ring when facing others. Punk dominates the match as he should, and in a move to taunt Shane looks to be going coast to coast. Vince comes out to help him, getting the steel chair ready to help destroy Shane. But in another swerve (all these swerves serve a purpose, I’m not Vince Russo yet) Vince blasts Punk and sends him crashing through the table set up outside the ring. And again after an attack in a Punk match, it’s 1-2-3 but in favour of Shane McMahon.

    Vince changed his allegiance to his real family, Punk has always been an outsider and will remain so. Son or not, his proper family comes first. He sided with Punk originally to see what he could do with the backing of the boss, but he couldn’t beat Cena without help so he doesn’t deserve to have his backing. It seems all is finished for Punk, but his entry in the Royal Rumble is already secure with it written into his contract. Vince makes him number 1 with Umaga 2, if Punk is to win he’s going to do it the hard way. And win it he does, reminiscent of Benoit in 04 and Mysterio in 06, Punk lasts all the way and did it the hard way. The next night on Raw, he’s to pick the champion he’s to face at Wrestlemania as was done in 2008. Everybody knows who he’s going to face, the WWE champion on Raw is Triple H now. And again a match is set between them, but for the Wrestlemania main event. Punk had that written into his contract when Vince on his side before Survivor Series, if he’s going to be in a title match at Wrestlemania it must the main event, not a main event, the main event, the final match.

    In the leadup to the match, the McMahons with HHH in tow set the deck against Punk. He’s in tough matches every week leading up to the show of shows, nothing new to Punk though he strides through it. A lot of people begin to back Punk, he’s showing in the ring he’s improved since HHH was beating him 5 months previously, HHH has taken the easy route since winning the title at Armageddon. Punk is in his element going into the match, he’s defying the authority and going against what they want, momentum is on his side and his time is now. The main event comes around, and HHH wants no interference, having lost in title matches at his previous 3 Wrestlemanias. It’s an epic match, not the rest hold matches HHH has had with others, Punk brings out the best in HHH. HHH is going for him 2nd pedigree, when Punk lifts him on his shoulders and hits the GTS and HHH goes to sleep and it’s done. Punk has done it, he’s the champ.

    The deck wasn’t stacked in his favour, then he had the power behind him before having it taken away, Punk has seen both sides of the power trip. He’s going to go his own path, HHH will have his rematch at Backlash, Vince and the authority are after him, it’s going to be a chase with the title, Punk doesn’t want it any other way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Ah the Whodunnit angle..... while they are usually very intriguing, WWE have never been great at the pay offs and the conclusions usually fall flat. However, Im going to tinking with history and re-write an angle I feel could have been handled so much better :

    Booker T and the “I know what you did” angle.

    goldbook.jpg

    Back in 2003, Booker T had just separated from Goldust in their fantastic odd couple tag team. Booker T was super over as a babyface and on his rise to the top (that HHH eventually torpedo’ed). But in the summer before he faced HHH for the WWE Heavyweight title, Booker was involved in a neat angle. Booker, on the rise as a single star, began getting letters from an anonymous source claiming to “know what he did”, much to the shock and puzzlement of Booker.

    In reality these letters came to nothing and after weeks of messages, the angle was dropped suddenly and Booker and his stalker was soon added to the pile of unresolved WWE storylines. But I shall try give this intriguing angle legs. Over the summer, Booker would continue to get these letters and they would be very vague at first, with the “I know what you did.” , message first. Booker would be puzzled but he would put it down to a crazy fan. These letters would then escalate with more information like “ I know what you did on in the summer of 1990” with Booker looking a bit more worried this time. JR the next week would inform the fans that Booker was actually serving a prison sentence back then for armed robbery and speculate if the messages have any connection.

    Booker would be interviewed and down play these letters again, saying it is just some wack job playing mind games. Booker questions goldust about the letters, and asks if hes behind it. Goldust tries to crack-wise but Booker is in no mood for games. Goldie straights up and claims its not him, and as he leaves another letter is delivered and Booker reads it and then rips it up before he leaves. Goldust retrieves the letters and pieces it together to reveal the message of ”MURDERER”.

    The next week Booker is seen chatting with Goldie and apologises for his accusations. Goldie forgives him and asks him about the latest message, Booker clams up and says its lies. Booker then loses a match against Christian that night and JR puts it down to his mind being else where. As Booker is walking backstage, another letter is delivered, this time its of a blackmailing nature, ordering Booker T to quit WWE or risk being exposed as being a murderer. Booker is angry, claims hes nothing to hide and urges his stalker to come forward.

    The next week, Booker is in the ring and calls out his stalker. Booker talks about his past in prison, about how he changed his life around and reiterates that he is no murderer. He begs his blackmailer to come face him and gets no answer...... but suddenly a man comes from the crowd and attacks Booker from behind and the two begin brawling. We have no idea who this man is but he is taking the fight to Booker. JR and King speculate that this is Bookers stalker as referees pull the men apart. The mystery man is screaming at Booker, calling him a murderer and a coward. Booker is asking who he is as the refs restain him to end teh segment, with the world still puzzled at whats going on.

    The next week Booker is interviewed, still claiming his innocence and claims he never seen this guy in his life and that this guy is an obvious nut case. Christian has a special guest on his Peep show though...... and he introduces Montel Vontavious Porter ... aka the guy who attacked Booker T LAST WEEK. He asks the tough questions in a sympathic tone, MVP tells us that he is the man who is out to get justice against the murderer Booker T. He claims that he is the son of a lawyer called Vontavious Porter, a man who was wrongly convicted of a crime he didnt commit (according to him anyway). He claims that his father was imprisoned in the same wing as Booker T and claims that he was murdered by Booker T himself while Booker was in prison for armed robbery. He says the world knows the truth about Booker T and says he wont rest until he gets his vengeance

    Booker comes out and says he remembers MVPs dad and that he was a quite inmate, and he and Booker both kept to them selves. He says he remembers him well but that MVP has it all twisted. Booker says his MVPs dad died because he ran fell in with the wrong crowd in prison and that it wasnt him who killed him. MVP calls Booker a liar and then slaps him across the face. He challenges Booker to a fight at Summerslam but Booker tells him he wont fight him. Booker says he knows MVP is hurting but he is picking a fight with the wrong dude and that he is misinformed about his fathers death. Booker walks away and MVP calls him a coward and then attacks Booker and beats him down until the refs come.

    The next week Booker again says he aint fighting someone like MVP, he says hes got eth wrong dude but he sympathizes with him over the death of his father. Booker says its not his fight. Goldust comes up and they converse with Booker ending the conversation saying Goldie has his back. MVP is in a sit down interview with JR and he is full of hate towards Booker, calling him a thug and a murderer and a fraud. MVP claims hes going to take away those who Booker T loved, just like he did to him and he wont stop until he gets Booker one on one. Later on that night Goldust is sent to the hospital after an attack by MVP.

    The next week Booker is challenged again by MVP and Booker again declines saying he wont fight. MVP says what comes next is one him.

    With two weeks to go until Summerslam, MVP suddenly interrupts the show dragging a distraught Sharmell (Bookers wife) to the ring and says he will hurt her unless Booker agrees to a match at Summerslam. Booker comes to her aid and they both brawl until separated by refs. Booker says its on at Summerslam and the match is set. The match will be made no holds barred at Bookers request.

    This story not only picks up the ball on angle quietly dropped by WWE but also makes a new star out of MVP (who hadn’t debuted as of yet). Booker is super over at this point and MVP would get over as a serious heel in his vendetta against Booker. Its a win win situation


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,736 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    Joe, I know you're the one organizing all this, but I'm sorry to say your idea is like something out of Eastenders or Coronation Street

    A stalker going around leaving letters for Booker, fair enough I get it. This guy then attacking him because he thinks Booker killed his father in prison? The crowd wouldn't know how to react. MVP is a new guy, most of the crowd don't know him so it could be true. If this was an already established heel in WWE, someone who's lied before in the past and has been proven a liar, you'd be forgiven for thinking the crowd would cheer for Booker and boo the guy claiming he murdered his father. MVP is coming in cold, and he's fighting this guy because he thinks he murdered his father. Attacking him from behind or not, he's not an out and out heel in this story and it's not going to put Booker over. MVP has all the motivation in the world to be fighting and attacking Booker.

    Taking away those who Booker loved though? Okay that might go some way to establishing him as a heel, even if you could sort of understand his motives. It would be the sort of thing WWE would do in the early 2000's, so it's not ridiculous to say WWE would book something like this. Doesn't mean people want to see it or that it's not ridiculous.

    The motives of your whole storyline is to establish Booker T as a face, and MVP as a heel. It won't really get either of them over in these roles, it would turn into one of these infamous angles for all the wrong reasons ala Katie Vick or Snitsky booting Lita's baby into the crowd.

    Mine gets someone who everyone already loves over, in CM Punk. It turns one of the biggest missed opportunities of all time in Mr McMahon's illegitimate son into one of the biggest things it could ever be. Remember when it was revealed CM Punk is Vince's son and went on to win the title at Mania? An angle that would be fondly remembered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Well, talk about a speedy reply.
    Joe, I know you're the one organizing all this, but I'm sorry to say your idea is like something out of Eastenders or Coronation Street

    Now you want to criticise my answer based on “its too like Eastenders...... says the man who choose the secret love child of Vince McMahon story..... those in glass houses and all that mate. Seriously.

    You picked a story that was always going to fall flat and in reality it fell flat with Hornswoggle being the lil McMahon. Now you have the chance to better it, and you choose one of the least believable people (In CM Punk) to play the role of Vinces love child.

    All the signs point to a certain member of the roster, and it’s actually Coach himself. Vince is delighted with this, he’s always got on with Coach in reality and things couldn’t have worked out better for him with the illegitimate son.Just as they look to be going to the back to finally bond, when all of a sudden This Fire Burns plays and out comes CM Punk. “Vince, I’m going to have to introduce you to someone you might know”, and out walks his mother and Vince nearly has heart attack. He’s going mad in the ring, he obviously knows something is up. “Hi Dad” says CM Punk waving to the man in the ring. Shock isn’t the word. Of all of the WWE superstars, why does it have to the cruiserweight with little muscle and all the tattoos being Vince’s son. Punk didn’t want it to be known he was Vince’s son, he wanted to make it to the top on his own. But now that it’s known, why not get a leg up in the wrestling world.

    Ok let em pick apart the piece in bold above, your proposal is flawed initially. You have Vince and Coach believing they are related and then have Punk interrupt and announce it.... yet his reasons stated later suggest he didnt want the world to know....BUT WAIT A MINUTE.... HE ANNOUNCED IT!. Thats just dumb. It doesnt make sense.

    In hindsight Id say that firstly CM punk would be a bad choice. Hes a moody individual at the best of times and Id imagine he wouldnt put his heart into the role as much as you may think. While I like the idea of Shane and Hunter battling Vinces love child superstar, CM Punk just doesnt fit the role, especially as a sympathic babyface like you described. The role of Vinces love child should of been one of a heell star who is getting the rub and opportunities for being Vinnies son. Kennedy was perfect for the role as it was intended, but to change this role to shoehorn Punk in just doenst work for me.

    He’s denying Punk is his son, how could his loins, the genetic jackhammers loins produce that lump. He’s going to be bringing the closest thing he has to a 2nd son as Punk’s opponent, Triple H. The match is going much the way it’s expected, HHH has too much for Punk when suddenly it’s light’s out. Undertaker? Boogeyman? Actually it’s just HHH laying prone in the middle of the ring and Vince has a sledgehammer in his hand outside it. Punk makes the cover, 1-2-3.

    Turns out Vince thinks blood is thicker than water, and since Punk is showing real aptitude for wrestling he’s going to help get him to the top

    So he denies Punk at first and puts him against HHH only to screw Hunter anyway..... hello Surewhywouldntya, have you met my good friend logic? That Makes no sense. And where does the turn leave Punk and HHH? A double turn that no one wants? Punk as the new son endorsed by Vince makes for a muddled story with no one to root for.
    Vince will be supporting Punk, Shane has turned his back on him before and could never get the job done in the ring when facing others. Punk dominates the match as he should, and in a move to taunt Shane looks to be going coast to coast. Vince comes out to help him, getting the steel chair ready to help destroy Shane. But in another swerve (all these swerves serve a purpose, I’m not Vince Russo yet) Vince blasts Punk and sends him crashing through the table set up outside the ring. And again after an attack in a Punk match, it’s 1-2-3 but in favour of Shane McMahon.

    Just because you say you're no Vince Russon, doesnt mean sh!t my friend. This is now a turn too many and Ive lost any little interest I had in this ill advised plan. It may serve a purpose, but with so many turns for the sake of swerving the audience, the fans wont care. Its just insulting the fans with turn after turn so quickly.
    Vince changed his allegiance to his real family, Punk has always been an outsider and will remain so.

    A minute ago blood was thicker than water..... why is Vince suddenly changing heart after suddenly changing heart against HHH in favor of Punk. Boll0xs, thats why! Its just nonsense.
    Everybody knows who he’s going to face, the WWE champion on Raw is Triple H now. And again a match is set between them, but for the Wrestlemania main event. Punk had that written into his contract when Vince on his side before Survivor Series, if he’s going to be in a title match at Wrestlemania it must the main event, not a main event, the main event, the final match.

    This is just Vinnie Russo swerve booking 101 and Im so over it. It may have worked in 1998/99 but its not gonna fly here in 2008. Its just too much hotshotted booking with everything being a little too convenient storyline-wise. I just don't dig the forced push of Punk along with all these ridiculous swerves. You went the wrong route with the answer in my opinion.
    If this was an already established heel in WWE, someone who's lied before in the past and has been proven a liar, you'd be forgiven for thinking the crowd would cheer for Booker and boo the guy claiming he murdered his father

    Now you dont like my idea because no one would know MVP. But it would be a little too convenient if that person was already on the roster and only piped up now about his dead dad. Im happy with it being an unknown at the time MVP. I think his back story would be enough to get people to care, esp when hes wrongly accusing Booker T who is supper over at the time. MVP is a painted as the angry misinformed man out to get the actually innocent face in Booker, I think its more believable and plausible than Punk being Vince Jr!.

    Taking away those who Booker loved though? Okay that might go some way to establishing him as a heel, even if you could sort of understand his motives. It would be the sort of thing WWE would do in the early 2000's, so it's not ridiculous to say WWE would book something like this. Doesn't mean people want to see it or that it's not ridiculous.

    You can see how it would work yourself, it would establish MVP as the unstable man doing things for the wrong reason. Hes a little unhinged and psychotic and I think he can easily play that role. He fits the role unlike Punk who is totally miscast as Vinces love child.
    The motives of your whole storyline is to establish Booker T as a face, and MVP as a heel. It won't really get either of them over in these roles, it would turn into one of these infamous angles for all the wrong reasons ala Katie Vick or Snitsky booting Lita's baby into the crowd.

    It wouldnt be like thata t all. MVP is the bad guy seeking revenge and Booker, already established as the face, would be the hero in peril. Theres no baby killing, no rape, no necrophelia. Seriously its different.
    Mine gets someone who everyone already loves over, in CM Punk

    No it just tosses him into a ****e storm of swerves and forced elevation. Punk doesnt need that. Someone else is better for that role.
    It turns one of the biggest missed opportunities of all time in Mr McMahon's illegitimate son into one of the biggest things it could ever be. Remember when it was revealed CM Punk is Vince's son and went on to win the title at Mania? An angle that would be fondly remembered

    It be remembered as much as David Argeuttes title reign. A dud of a feud, a horrible forced angle full of ill-logical turns and a big black mark on all involved. Its a bad angle that should stay buried.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,736 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    Okay maybe both of our answers are rooted in the soaps, the difference is where it takes you and what the execution is
    Ok let em pick apart the piece in bold above, your proposal is flawed initially. You have Vince and Coach believing they are related and then have Punk interrupt and announce it.... yet his reasons stated later suggest he didnt want the world to know....BUT WAIT A MINUTE.... HE ANNOUNCED IT!. Thats just dumb. It doesnt make sense.

    It's well known Punk is a bit of a narcissist. It would totally make sense for him to both not want to be known as Vince's son, and yet also doesn't want anyone else to be Vince's illegitimate son.

    Also how could Punk not be behind the role? Everyone knows his dream is the main event of Mania. Are you really saying that Punk would half ass the storyline that leads to him main eventing?

    You're right on this point
    The role of Vinces love child should of been one of a heell star who is getting the rub and opportunities for being Vinnies son

    And that's what happened when Punk beat HHH and in the lead up to Survivor Series. Vince then turning on him because he's not his real son and not the guy he should have been is also totally believable and adds to Punk being the sympathetic babyface. His dad rejecting him for who he is? Would garner a lot of support of Punk from the crowd, how could it not.
    So he denies Punk at first and puts him against HHH only to screw Hunter anyway..... hello Surewhywouldntya, have you met my good friend logic? That Makes no sense. And where does the turn leave Punk and HHH? A double turn that no one wants? Punk as the new son endorsed by Vince makes for a muddled story with no one to root for.

    Has that never happened before? Someone saying something when in reality he means something else. You might call it deception. It is done to put Punk as, quote from you, "a heell star who is getting the rub and opportunities for being Vinnies son". It's a swerve. You're thinking one thing, then something else happens. It makes for compelling viewing. All of these swerves serve a purpose, they're not swerves just to create drama.

    You say the fans won't care? BS. Look at how poorly Punk was booked in the future, losing his title in a backstage beatdown and yet people didn't forget him.

    And a swerve too many? It's 3 swerves. Punk is on his own, then gets the support of Vince. Then Shane looks to be supporting Punk, he isn't. Then Vince looks to be supporting Punk, he isn't. That might seem a lot when you're reading it now in 10 seconds, but over 2+ months of TV it's not. Again it's to serve a purpose, they're not for nothing and that's why you saying it's too many swerves is wrong. All they are is storyline devices.

    Being too convenient storyline wise? I did that to allow Punk to get the upper hand for once, the deck is being stacked against him it makes sense for him to get a win here and there. Think of Punk's smug face when it's revealed.
    Now you dont like my idea because no one would know MVP. But it would be a little too convenient if that person was already on the roster and only piped up now about his dead dad. Im happy with it being an unknown at the time MVP. I think his back story would be enough to get people to care, esp when hes wrongly accusing Booker T who is supper over at the time. MVP is a painted as the angry misinformed man out to get the actually innocent face in Booker, I think its more believable and plausible than Punk being Vince Jr!.

    Whether Booker is over or not at the time, some guy coming in as a stranger claiming he murdered his dad is as believable as Booker saying he didn't do it. It's Booker's word versus MVP's, but when it's murder involved as apposed to who ate the last piece of pie, it's just such a serious matter it's hard to get behind Booker. Too serious to be taking place on a wwe tv show in reality.

    You say it would establish MVP as the unstable man doing things for the wrong reason, who's to say he's not right. We, the crowd, don't know what really happened.

    Punk being "miscast" as Vince's son is the whole point of me picking Punk. It's not miscast like Hornswoggle in a joke way. It's miscast in an ironic way because Punk is everything Vince doesn't want in a WWE superstar.

    And comparing the reign to David Arquette's reign is just clutching at straws. Hyperbole of the highest order. There's trying to make my arguement look weak, and sometimes you just lie.

    To end, it's CM Punk as the main event face we'v always wanted to see. Or a clusterfcuk of a story that is all the wrong tone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    It's well known Punk is a bit of a narcissist. It would totally make sense for him to both not want to be known as Vince's son, and yet also doesn't want anyone else to be Vince's illegitimate son.

    Its sounds like a double negative, possible.... maybe...probable, I doubt it. Id say the Phil Brooks would hate the idea and think its a half baked story that would damage his character in the long term. Punk doesnt need it and in reality he didnt need it. Surely someone else could of done with the rub, someone more suited than Punk. Ted DiBiase Jnr? Cody Rhodes? I think Jack swagger would have been perfect in teh role come to think of it. Punk just doesn't suit the role for me and I think, knowing about his attitude, the role wouldn't sit well with Phil either.
    Also how could Punk not be behind the role? Everyone knows his dream is the main event of Mania. Are you really saying that Punk would half ass the storyline that leads to him main eventing?

    I dont think he would envision himself as main eventing mania in this way. Id say he would hate the constant turns and swerves and the unrealistic tale of him being Vinces son to a point where he would be vocal about his hatred of the nonsensical angle. Maybe Im wrong, but Punk would see how ****e this Russo esque story is and wouldnt be shy about venting his displeasure.
    His dad rejecting him for who he is? Would garner a lot of support of Punk from the crowd, how could it not.

    Would it? We all know hes not really his son, I cant imagine it gaining him much support coupled with the initial turn of himself and Vince previously. It happens and WWE will push the idea, but not many fans will buy it. I certainly wouldnt.

    I stand by my point isnt the right guy for this angle. It was an angle made for Mr Kennedy and he blew it and I dont think many others would make it work, hence why it went to Horny after all. Punk just isnt the right character for the angle. Hes just not a natural fit.
    Has that never happened before? Someone saying something when in reality he means something else. You might call it deception.

    So he screws HHH in favour of Punk only to screw him in favour of HHH and Shane? Sounds ropey too me, sounds less like deception and more like a half baked story.
    It's a swerve. You're thinking one thing, then something else happens. It makes for compelling viewing. All of these swerves serve a purpose, they're not swerves just to create drama.


    No your wrong wrong here. All swerves dont work. Swevers or plot twists work when they make sense and you didnt see it coming. Your swerves are for shock value and are only happening to jazz up a half baked story. Its why WCW under Russo failed so bad. You say they serve purpose, Im sure Russo says the same thing. These ares swerves for the sake of it, get real SWWY.

    And a swerve too many? It's 3 swerves. Punk is on his own, then gets the support of Vince. Then Shane looks to be supporting Punk, he isn't. Then Vince looks to be supporting Punk, he isn't. That might seem a lot when you're reading it now in 10 seconds, but over 2+ months of TV it's not. Again it's to serve a purpose, they're not for nothing and that's why you saying it's too many swerves is wrong. All they are is storyline devices.

    Only 3.... 3 is too many. 3 big swerves, which contradict the other swerves is just horse plop. Vince switching sides to suit your narrative just is so tiresome reading, it be even worse watching. These answers and reasoning for said swerves are very Russo esque, Vince hopping from HHH to Punk to Shane is too much IMO.

    Whether Booker is over or not at the time, some guy coming in as a stranger claiming he murdered his dad is as believable as Booker saying he didn't do it. It's Booker's word versus MVP's, but when it's murder involved as apposed to who ate the last piece of pie, it's just such a serious matter it's hard to get behind Booker. Too serious to be taking place on a wwe tv show in reality.

    Too serious? Its not too serious,especially in the era of 2002/03. Your reaching here. Its a pro wrestling feud.




    Punk being "miscast" as Vince's son is the whole point of me picking Punk. It's not miscast like Hornswoggle in a joke way. It's miscast in an ironic way because Punk is everything Vince doesn't want in a WWE superstar.
    Punk is ironicly miscast now? Or have you just realized he is miscast since I pointed it out to you..... clutching at straws my friend.

    And comparing the reign to David Arquette's reign is just clutching at straws. Hyperbole of the highest order. There's trying to make my arguement look weak, and sometimes you just lie.

    Your arguement is weak, its no lie. Say it out loud..... Punk is Vince McMahons Son..... it doesnt work for me. Its not hyper bowl, its just a bad plan on your part.

    We hadnt got many whodunnits to choose from. Some where great pay offs "Vince as the higher power for example" , but most sucked. The reality of your chosen subject sucked (not your idea, the McMahon angle you chose) and in my opinion, only Mr Kennedy would have made it a worthwhile watch. It fitted. But with him gone, the storyline was a dud and while I love Punk, he didnt suit the role and the angle would just fail from the reveal.

    My chosen subject never got a chance, but Ive given it a decent story, a nice way to debut MVP and its not reaching too fair into the logical world to work. Yours, however, is just a bridge too far.
    To end, it's CM Punk as the main event face we'v always wanted to see. Or a clusterfcuk of a story that is all the wrong tone.

    To end its actually To end, it's CM Punk as the main event face in a horrific clusterfcuk of a story that is all the wrong tone. Thats your answer summed up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll Bump


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Poll bump


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