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As a cohabiting partner, what rights have you?

  • 16-08-2016 4:38pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭


    Specifically in relation to income.
    I don't qualify for benefits as my partner's income exceeds the limit.
    What though am I entitled to from him?
    Legally.


Comments

  • Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,781 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    None and nothing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    I should mention that we're cohabiting which invalidates me from any form of personal aid/help/money etc.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    None and nothing.

    Lol - seriously?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    Don't know why they make such a hullabuloo about single parents claiming then.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    Interestingly I'm entitled to legal aid based on my own status, not his, or our joint status.

    Wow. So a **** who wants to control a woman can get his jollies by living with a woman?


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  • Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,781 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Cohabiting is not legally recognised as anything so for all intents and purposes, you are single. It's tough that you are not assessed as a single person by the DSP but they make the rules so not much you can do.

    I am unsure why you think your partner would be obliged to give you anything?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    Cohabiting is not legally recognised as anything so for all intents and purposes, you are single. It's tough that you are not assessed as a single person by the DSP but they make the rules so not much you can do.

    I am unsure why you think your partner would be obliged to give you anything?

    Because the fact that I'm living with him and shagging him disqualifies me from any other income. FFS. <<Mod offensive remark deleted>>


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    I'll spell it out. We're breaking up tonight.
    <<Mod - Offensive remark deleted>>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Cohabiting is not legally recognised as anything so for all intents and purposes, you are single. It's tough that you are not assessed as a single person by the DSP but they make the rules so not much you can do.

    I am unsure why you think your partner would be obliged to give you anything?

    Really http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/24/enacted/en/html

    To the OP any couple married partners or cohabiting are assumed by law to be exactly that a couple. If your partner not supporting you then you have serious questions to ask.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I'll spell it out. We're breaking up tonight.

    How long are you living together?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    What are they thinking? This boyfriend living in is going to give me my 188?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    Together 6 years. Have been between me supporting him and him supporting me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    I'll spell it out. We're breaking up tonight.
    .

    If you satisfy the 2010 act then you are entitled to make almost any application a ex spouse can make. Also as you now breaking up then reapply for SW.
    <<deleted>> is a bit harsh.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    Really http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/24/enacted/en/html

    To the OP any couple married partners or cohabiting are assumed by law to be exactly that a couple. If your partner not supporting you then you have serious questions to ask.

    Can you direct me to the chapter you're thinking of?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Can you direct me to the chapter you're thinking of?

    All of Part 15.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    If you satisfy the 2010 act then you are entitled to make almost any application a ex spouse can make. Also as you now breaking up then reapply for SW.
    .

    And if I stay with him?
    What am I entitled to?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    And if I stay with him?
    What am I entitled to?

    Nothing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    And if I stay with him?
    What am I entitled to?

    Like any couple nothing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    Those redress orders seem to refer retrospectively. I'm talking about today.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 256 ✭✭Bobthefireman


    So I'm dependent on his good grace? Nice.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    So I'm dependent on his good grace? Nice.

    Yes as long as you are with him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Those redress orders seem to refer retrospectively. I'm talking about today.

    I was responding to the following "Cohabiting is not legally recognised as anything so for all intents and purposes, you are single."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    So I'm dependent on his good grace? Nice.

    Like any couple!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,201 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I have to ask.. why do you think you should be "entitled" to ANYTHING from your partner? By the sounds of it you're financially dependent on him as it is so you're already being supported by him, right?

    If you split up then as per the link you above you may qualify for some sort of supports from him, but in the meantime I'd probably focus more on improving your own situation (finding a job, training etc) than trying to see what you can "get" from him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Do you have children, OP?

    Sorry to hear about the breakup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,435 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I have to ask.. why do you think you should be "entitled" to ANYTHING from your partner? By the sounds of it you're financially dependent on him as it is so you're already being supported by him, right?

    It's grossly unfair that a non-married co-habitating person (for any length of time) has no entitlement to welfare because of their partner's income - but their partner has no entitlement to use the co-habitant's tax credits (which they would have access to if they were married.

    I say this as the earning partner in a situation like the OP's. Not only can I not use his un-used tax credits, also technically for tax purposes I'm not allowed to gift anything to him - including food or small amounts of money for pints, without declaring it and paying gift tax. Yet the state assumes that I will support him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    It's grossly unfair that a non-married co-habitating person (for any length of time) has no entitlement to welfare because of their partner's income - but their partner has no entitlement to use the co-habitant's tax credits (which they would have access to if they were married.

    I say this as the earning partner in a situation like the OP's. Not only can I not use his un-used tax credits, also technically for tax purposes I'm not allowed to gift anything to him - including food or small amounts of money for pints, without declaring it and paying gift tax. Yet the state assumes that I will support him.

    You raise an interesting point. Of course the Constitution has a lot to do with this issue, also it could lead to a situation where an ex spouse or partner who has not divorced and a cohabiting partner could both claim it which would be a nightmare. But I agree it's not very fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    It's grossly unfair that a non-married co-habitating person (for any length of time) has no entitlement to welfare because of their partner's income - but their partner has no entitlement to use the co-habitant's tax credits (which they would have access to if they were married.

    I say this as the earning partner in a situation like the OP's. Not only can I not use his un-used tax credits, also technically for tax purposes I'm not allowed to gift anything to him - including food or small amounts of money for pints, without declaring it and paying gift tax. Yet the state assumes that I will support him.

    The quick fix here is to get married.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    The quick fix here is to get married.

    May not be possible as one of the couple may not be able to get divorced because of the time issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    GET MARRIED. Simples.

    Five minutes in the Registry Office.

    I do realise some partners cannot do this due to divorce not being finalised, but if someone is cohabiting and the relationship breaks down, the following might give some information.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/redress_scheme_for_cohabiting_couples.html

    A trip to Citizen's Advice Office might be the best for OP now as a start anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    May not be possible as one of the couple may not be able to get divorced because of the time issue.

    Fair point.

    It should be possible in OPs case though as they are with their partner for 6 years?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Fair point.

    It should be possible in OPs case though as they are with their partner for 6 years?

    The OP is also talking about breaking up with her partner that ship may have sailed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    It's grossly unfair that a non-married co-habitating person (for any length of time) has no entitlement to welfare because of their partner's income - but their partner has no entitlement to use the co-habitant's tax credits (which they would have access to if they were married.

    I say this as the earning partner in a situation like the OP's. Not only can I not use his un-used tax credits, also technically for tax purposes I'm not allowed to gift anything to him - including food or small amounts of money for pints, without declaring it and paying gift tax. Yet the state assumes that I will support him.

    You can gift ANYONE €3,000 per annum gift tax free. Now that to me is about €60 a week. Where did you get the information you mentioned from? I may be misinterpreting your post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭IRAC War


    So I'm dependent on his good grace? Nice.

    Isn't that what you were told in post #2 ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,188 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The quick fix here is to get married.

    May not be possible for various reasons.

    Indeed when I had a similar situation, the AG was saying we needed a constitutional amendment...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,201 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    It's grossly unfair that a non-married co-habitating person (for any length of time) has no entitlement to welfare because of their partner's income - but their partner has no entitlement to use the co-habitant's tax credits (which they would have access to if they were married.

    I say this as the earning partner in a situation like the OP's. Not only can I not use his un-used tax credits, also technically for tax purposes I'm not allowed to gift anything to him - including food or small amounts of money for pints, without declaring it and paying gift tax. Yet the state assumes that I will support him.

    I don't disagree, but for now at least the system is the way it is and the OP (I think anyway) would be better off trying to improve their own circumstances (whether they stay with their partner or not) by finding a job to support themselves, or at least look into a course to improve their prospects of finding one.

    The notion that they should be "entitled" to a welfare-substitute payment from their partner (who is already supporting them anyway I assume if they're cohabiting in those circumstances) is wrong on so many levels - not least being the disincentive it'd be to actually going to work, but the relationship itself - that it actually annoys me - and like you I've been in the position of being the provider as well and it resulted in exactly that scenario.

    The solution here is to either get married, or split and claim welfare/go to work (preferably the latter IMO). The fact that they're considering splitting over this "bad news" is another issue of course (best suited for Relationship Issues) but may be the best choice for both of them if sincere. EDIT: This last point is subject to my reading of the OP's follow-ups, however if they're splitting anyway then they may be able to apply for supports under the Act referred to/linked above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,258 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I'll spell it out. We're breaking up
    OK, that's different. As long as you're cohabiting together you have little in the way of concrete legal rights. But, as an ex, you can make the same range of court appliciations for maintenance, property adjustment orders, etc, that a separated or divorced spouse can make.
    Can you direct me to the chapter you're thinking of?
    You want Part 15 of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010.

    You also want a lawyer. Now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,201 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    OK, that's different. As long as you're cohabiting together you have little in the way of concrete legal rights. But, as an ex, you can make the same range of court appliciations for maintenance, property adjustment orders, etc, that a separated or divorced spouse can make.


    You want Part 15 of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010.

    You also want a lawyer. Now.

    All depends on how long they're living together (the OP says they're together 6 years, but how many of those were living under the same roof?) and how long the OP has been "dependent" on their partner.

    In the end it'll come down to how the Judge interprets the circumstances involved though - there's no fixed settlement amounts or any guarantee at all from what I can tell

    Also, assuming they were to get an award, I'm presuming that'd impact on their ability to claim welfare after the split as well insofar as how much they'd receive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    You can be 'separated' and still be under the same roof. Is it McA v McA ?


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