Is computer programming harder than mathematics?

764dak

This guy says so. https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/FTP_SITE/tech.reports/DiffMathProgramming.pdf

Also, in slide 291 to 310 in this pdf:
https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/COURSES/software.engr/lectures.pdf/myths.pdf

What do you think?

L.Jenkins

If that's the case, I'm the Stephen Hawking of Mathematics. I don't find Programming all that difficult and it's only as hard as you make it.

BrokenArrows

In mathematics there is only one right answer.
In programming there is no right answer, there is just what right for the user.

I dont think you can really directly compare the two subjects. Programming can be seen as an art form. You wouldn't compare Mathematics to Oil Painting and say which one is more difficult.

Both subjects have different levels of difficulty.
Anyone can learn to say that 1+2=3, or write a Hello World program.

Gets a bit more difficult if you try and prove E=mc^2 or to write a scaleable, distributed system dealing with millions of transactions per minute.

John_Mc

Unless you're doing graphics and animations, there's not much maths at all in programming besides Boolean Logic which is used in pretty much every programming language.

I only got a B2 in ordinary level maths in the leaving cert and struggled with maths in college but in the working world where I code every day, my level of maths is in no way a problem at all.

timmyntc

John_Mc wrote: »

Unless you're doing graphics and animations, there's not much maths at all in programming besides Boolean Logic which is used in pretty much every programming language.

I only got a B2 in ordinary level maths in the leaving cert and struggled with maths in college but in the working world where I code every day, my level of maths is in no way a problem at all.

If you're working in AI, or Digital Optics, or Big Data or a whole host of other fields, there more certainly is a lot of maths.
Programming and Maths are two similar fields in many respects, and are largely intertwined. Indeed in some circumstances programming is just maths with different words.


Whether one field is harder than the other is a silly question, theyre both incredibly broad fields with some difficult areas, some easy areas. If I had to choose it would probably be maths, seeing as the most complex programming involves coming up with mathematical algorithms.

CINCLANTFLT

John_Mc wrote: »

Unless you're doing graphics and animations, there's not much maths at all in programming besides Boolean Logic which is used in pretty much every programming language.

I only got a B2 in ordinary level maths in the leaving cert and struggled with maths in college but in the working world where I code every day, my level of maths is in no way a problem at all.

Yep... B in ordinary maths... 1H CompSci degree! I still struggle with maths, but I can programme perfectly fine...

John_Mc

timmyntc wrote: »

If you're working in AI, or Digital Optics, or Big Data or a whole host of other fields, there more certainly is a lot of maths.

Yeah you're right, there's no doubt other specialties which require maths as well. However, for the bread and butter of application development then you don't usually have to work with maths, and if you do then algorithms are clearly defined for you in the requirements.

14ned

764dak wrote: »

This guy says so. https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/FTP_SITE/tech.reports/DiffMathProgramming.pdf

Also, in slide 291 to 310 in this pdf:
https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/COURSES/software.engr/lectures.pdf/myths.pdf

What do you think?

I'm just finishing up my third undergrad degree at the moment, this one in Pure Maths with the Open University, so I'm in a good position to comment usefully. Coincidentally I'm also attached to a research institute at Waterloo, and I used to live there 2012-2013. Never met this fellow specifically though.

I think that any knowledge based field will have a top end and the average practice. I think that the top end will be equally as hard in any knowledge based field because very bright people will always push the boundaries to the limit of human ability which is constant across enough people.

But that doesn't have much relation to the average practice. Most applied mathematicians probably have as difficult a job as most programmers, especially as most application of maths nowadays really is just another form of programming a computer (same as banking and finance nowadays). So I think that guy's comments on which is harder are fairly meaningless if applied to average practice, and simply wrong if applied to the top end. I reckon top end maths and top end programming similarly hard.

There is also, of course, the entire field of formal specification which are computer programs which are formally verifiable in mathematics, so the overlap between maths and programming could be considered substantial, if rarely exercised in practice due to the exorbitant cost.

Niall

Trojan

No, at least not in more practical related programming - understanding of logic is essential, but maths far less so.

My guess is that at the more theoretical Computure Science end there is a clearer correlation between maths and coding.

My experience in college was that I averaged C's & D's in maths related courses, and A's & B's in coding related courses.

Tom Dunne

The question really is, how do you measure "hardness"?

Completely and utterly subjective.

gargargar

The first of these looks at mathematical modelling versus programming, as opposed to math vs programming. It's not quite the same thing. Is that comparison of interest? I'm not sure. I would agree that a MM needs more assumptions to make it more tractable but often MMs are more terse than a computer program.

I have completed degrees in math and computing, and have found the programming side to be far simpler. I would put a caveat that I work in business programming, rather than say AI for instance.

beauf

764dak wrote: »

This guy says so. https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/FTP_SITE/tech.reports/DiffMathProgramming.pdf

Also, in slide 291 to 310 in this pdf:
https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/COURSES/software.engr/lectures.pdf/myths.pdf

What do you think?

I think you should clarify why you're asking.

Sparks

Programming is waaaaay easier than maths.


That's why we spend most of our lives debugging and fixing mistakes. All made by other idiots of course, you understand, because we are perfect.

764dak

beauf wrote: »

764dak wrote: »

This guy says so. https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/FTP_SITE/tech.reports/DiffMathProgramming.pdf

Also, in slide 291 to 310 in this pdf:
https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/COURSES/software.engr/lectures.pdf/myths.pdf

What do you think?

I think you should clarify why you're asking.

I want people's views.

764dak

beauf wrote: »

764dak wrote: »

This guy says so. https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/FTP_SITE/tech.reports/DiffMathProgramming.pdf

Also, in slide 291 to 310 in this pdf:
https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~dberry/COURSES/software.engr/lectures.pdf/myths.pdf

What do you think?

I think you should clarify why you're asking.

I want people's views.

pwurple

It depends.

Programming and mathmatics are both enormous fields, with a lot of different branches.

I always found maths way easier than english or art in school. GOOD Programming in a professional productive environment and following all the conventions was more of a slog. It's easy enough to slap something out that works with programming.. Getting it to pass a code review is a different story.

I enjoy both tbh, love a bit of problem solving, and the sense of achievment when it works. If you enjoy something, it's never a chore.

beauf

764dak wrote: »

I want people's views.

I'm asking why do you want people's views.

A question without context, can't really be answered properly. Hence the its depends answers you'll get.

It's like asking which is nicer an apple or an orange.

I know lots of programmers, a couple of them did masters in maths, but none who would use advanced maths in their programming. I've rarely used anything other than basic maths in development.

PrzemoF

What is harder: neurosurgical operations or playing simultaneous blind chess tournament with 40 opponents (search for Miguel Najdorf)? You can't compare it.

beauf

If the context is I don't like maths can I be a programmer, or I love maths should I become an programmer. Or we had a discussion in the pub and..

That would give it context.

beauf

Far fewer people doing advanced maths than programming. I'm not sure that answers any question either.

764dak

L.Jenkins wrote: »

If that's the case, I'm the Stephen Hawking of Mathematics. I don't find Programming all that difficult and it's only as hard as you make it.

Math is only as hard as you make it.

BrokenArrows wrote: »

In mathematics there is only one right answer.
In programming there is no right answer, there is just what right for the user.

I dont think you can really directly compare the two subjects. Programming can be seen as an art form. You wouldn't compare Mathematics to Oil Painting and say which one is more difficult.

Both subjects have different levels of difficulty.
Anyone can learn to say that 1+2=3, or write a Hello World program.

Gets a bit more difficult if you try and prove E=mc^2 or to write a scaleable, distributed system dealing with millions of transactions per minute.

E=mc^2 is not a theorem. There are multiple ways of doing things in math.

John_Mc wrote: »

Unless you're doing graphics and animations, there's not much maths at all in programming besides Boolean Logic which is used in pretty much every programming language.

I only got a B2 in ordinary level maths in the leaving cert and struggled with maths in college but in the working world where I code every day, my level of maths is in no way a problem at all.

Saying there isn't much math in computer programming doesn't mean math is harder.

beauf wrote: »

Far fewer people doing advanced maths than programming. I'm not sure that answers any question either.

Far more people know calculus than computer programming.

beauf

That's why I said it's not an indication of anything.

rock22

To be honest, programming relies heavily on Boolean logic which is a branch of mathematics.
It often relies on arithmatic which is another branch of mathematics.
Your question can be reduced to " Is mathematics harder than mathematics"

donaldtramp

Well I see myself as one of the greatest programmers out there, particularly in Ireland, particially because I've been told so. I don't believe computer programming and mathematics can be directly compared, they're both different fields of math, computer programming having it's own fun twist.

Of course you're awaiting my overall opinion: They're not possible to be compared.

But I will say that both can go into extreme complicity at their depths, so they are both very difficult. I would guess computer programming would be easier to pick up instead of more complicated maths, however... You need maths for computer programming, so ultimately, computer "programming" (not design) cannot exist without some basic knowledge of maths. Therefore I can come to the conclusion that computer programming is more difficult as you have to learn maths + type on a computer keyboard. :P

Graham

donaldtramp wrote: »

Well I see myself as one of the greatest programmers out there, particularly in Ireland, particially because I've been told so.

and just imagine how awesome a developer you will be when you get the Junior Cert out of the way allowing you to concentrate on it full time.

Sparks

Closing thread for excessively tiresome deleted silliness.