More plane noise over Ashbourne Meath

cubix

Been living up here for 15yrs (Slane side) and this year possibly since May/June the noise level seems louder. As normal they are taking off over the N2/Kilbride and banking right and doing their wide loop but seem to be at a lower level when flying over Ashbourne heading out to sea. Is this a permanent thing or short term measure

b757

http://iaip.iaa.ie/iaip/Published%20Files/AIP%20Files/AD/Chart%20Files/EIDW/EI_AD_2_EIDW_24-9_en.pdf

http://iaip.iaa.ie/iaip/Published%20Files/AIP%20Files/AD/Chart%20Files/EIDW/EI_AD_2_EIDW_24-10_en.pdf

Those SIDs (Standard Instrument Departures) have been updated last in Dec 2012, but as far as I know have been in place for a number of years prior to that also. So, nothing really has changed since they started. You probably are just noticing it more as the Summer Schedule has a increase of flights from March-October.

Irish Steve

The other possibility is that there are more larger aircraft (330, 777 and 787's) operating to the Middle East area, and they are larger and possibly lower than the smaller, faster and lighter 737 and 320 size aircraft that were the majority of overflights here. I'm also an Ashbourne resident, and this comment is based on the sort of activity I'm aware of here.

cubix

Thanks for the replies.

Simon Gruber Says

At least the days of the low bypass turbofan are mostly gone. The JT8D powered Ryanair 732's could shake some windows from a distance.

Airplane Man

I was in Ashbourne the other day and the planes were a good few miles away approuching and taking off. Hardly any noise at all.

Skyknight

Simon Gruber Says wrote: »

At least the days of the low bypass turbofan are mostly gone. The JT8D powered Ryanair 732's could shake some windows from a distance.

....... If you think two JTD's would shake windows, can you imagine what eight would do. :eek: You wouldn't remember the sound of three RR RB163-25 Spey (and booster RB162-86) of the Trident or (very rarely here) the sound of four Olympus with throttles to the wall, the latter of which would not only shake the walls, but ones internal organs as well. .

Irish Steve

Skyknight wrote: »

....... If you think two JTD's would shake windows, can you imagine what eight would do. :eek: You wouldn't remember the sound of three RR RB163-25 Spey (and booster RB162-86) of the Trident or (very rarely here) the sound of four Olympus with throttles to the wall, the latter of which would not only shake the walls, but ones internal organs as well. .

Indeed...... A VERY long time ago, there was a Bay of Biscay flight from Exeter with Concorde, (G-BOAC), and the relevant powers decided they'd better open the airport as if it were an airday in order to cope with the expected crowds. Good job they did, over 7,000 people turned up on the day to see it.

I managed to get into a position about 100 Ft from the touchdown zone at the western end of the runway, and the first departure was east to west, so it went in front of us at about 200 Ft on full burner, on the second attempt, the first time, they thought they'd blown a tyre on the turn before departure, so came the full length of the runway to get it inspected, which meant it went in front of us, they behind the crowd back to the stand, the tyre was found good, so they went out to departure again, and off they went.

Just over an hour later, it came back, but the wind had changed, so I got the entire approach on video to a touchdown literally in front of me. The second departure an hour later was easterly, they took off from in front of us, flew a very wide circuit and then low approach and go around, with an almost airshow style climb out as they headed for FL240 at Bridport, about 30 miles east, to join controlled airspace on the way back to Heathrow.

And yes, you didn't hear that aircraft, you felt it with every fibre of your being, Just a great shame that there are none left flying.

Suffice to say that the video from that day is VERY carefully protected.

Tenger

Irish Steve wrote: »

.....
Suffice to say that the video from that day is VERY carefully protected.

You need to get it digitised maybe?

Irish Steve

Tenger wrote: »

You need to get it digitised maybe?

That's one of those rainy day jobs that keeps falling off the long finger, but while I still have several working VCR's, it's not a panic.

Stovepipe

@skyknight, I was at the fence at Cork Airport when the last Trident flight left. When yer man stood on the brakes and opened up, I though my guts would turn to jelly and fall out, such was the effect of the noise of three coal burners on full chat. He left the brakes off and it went off, trailing a great deal of black smoke....

EchoIndia

Stovepipe wrote: »

@skyknight, I was at the fence at Cork Airport when the last Trident flight left. When yer man stood on the brakes and opened up, I though my guts would turn to jelly and fall out, such was the effect of the noise of three coal burners on full chat. He left the brakes off and it went off, trailing a great deal of black smoke....

Those were the days...!

G-AVFN Trident 2E by Irish251, on Flickr

Irish Steve

Strangely enough, there are times when we get to hear the departures from 10 quite clearly, if the wind is in the right direction, but in fairness, it's not obtrusive, the noise from the traffic on the M2 is louder and more regular.

10 and 16 arrivals sometimes sneak over here at very low levels, but they're not using much power at that stage, so again not that noticeable, the more common noise are low level VFR traffic like smaller helicopters, and of course the SAR heli, which comes over quite often. The one helicopter that's very distinct, and not a regular visitor, is a Chinook, they really do give things a rattle if they come close to the town. They are military, so rare.

Having said that, I don't miss the early morning alarm calls that we used to get from the Ryanair 200's.

cubix

Is there a minimum planes have to climb to when they leave the airport or does this vary on the day. So when they take off over the N2 how far west do they go before they bank right and head North and then at what point to they bank east and head out over Ashbourne

At the moment they are definitely passing lower over Brindley/Milbourne here on the northside of Ashbourne. IT sounds like they are still climbing as they pass over where as previous years you may have seen them over head but very little noise and normally they seemed further north of the town.

There was one the other day where I had to close over the patio door as I could not hear the person on the phone.

cubix

cubix wrote: »

Is there a minimum planes have to climb to when they leave the airport or does this vary on the day. So when they take off over the N2 how far west do they go before they bank right and head North and then at what point to they bank east and head out over Ashbourne

At the moment they are definitely passing lower over Brindley/Milbourne here on the northside of Ashbourne. IT sounds like they are still climbing as they pass over where as previous years you may have seen them over head but very little noise and normally they seemed further north of the town.

There was one the other day where I had to close over the patio door as I could not hear the person on the phone.

They pass about 5.5nms west of the end of the runway at a minimum of 3000ft this hasn't changed in about 20 years. Nothing has changed in about 20 years in relation to the SID's.

Aircraft are climbing far better now than when the SID were first introduced. Over your house they will be passing probably at 5-6000ft.

Re the question about when they turn look again at post 2 where the SID charts have been kindly linked for you by another poster.

I suggest that any issues you are now perceiving are the changes in cloud cover and wind direction on each day.

Irish Steve

the issue now is that in recent times, with the extra long haul to the middle east, there are 777's, 330's, 787's and the like overflying Ashbourne, for many years, the number of heavy jets that went over here was next to zero, there are now a number of heavy jets every day, and yes, the are more noticeable than a 320 or 737.

EchoIndia

Irish Steve wrote: »

the issue now is that in recent times, with the extra long haul to the middle east, there are 777's, 330's, 787's and the like overflying Ashbourne, for many years, the number of heavy jets that went over here was next to zero, there are now a number of heavy jets every day, and yes, the are more noticeable than a 320 or 737.

Hmm, taking 2 x Emirates 777s and 2 x Etihad A330/777 per day and three ET 787s per week eastbound (which sometimes take a southerly departure anyway) you should not be experiencing more than a max of five per day. There is a weekly AF 777F on Saturday mornings but again that would normally take a left turn off runway 28.

Peregrine

EchoIndia wrote: »

Hmm, taking 2 x Emirates 777s and 2 x Etihad A330/777 per day and three ET 787s per week eastbound (which sometimes take a southerly departure anyway) you should not be experiencing more than a max of five per day. There is a weekly AF 777F on Saturday mornings but again that would normally take a left turn off runway 28.

6 ET 787s and 7 ET 777s per week when you include the DC and Toronto re-fuelling flights. Just for the record.

EchoIndia

Peregrine wrote: »

6 ET 787s and 7 ET 777s per week when you include the DC and Toronto re-fuelling flights. Just for the record.

If including westbound flights out of DUB, you need to add in all the other US- and Canada-bound traffic!

Irish Steve

The westbound departures tend not to come this way, the main extra flights I've noticed are the above mentioned heavy aircraft, the engines are working that bit harder, and they are probably that bit lower and slower than the lighter aircraft. I've been in Ashbourne for getting on 25 years, so well used to the normal noises that are part of daily life here. They're not that obtrusive, and there's not that many either.

The King of Dalriada

Last few times out of Dublin, LIFFY departure on a 777,passed over the DUB VOR at FL100+ .
Will pass over as high as a 737 or 320.

Irish Steve

The Liffey departure doesn't come over Ashbourne, the nearest I could see that comes this way is the ROTEV1A, but from experience of listening to the day to day activity, quite often, there will be changes to accommodate weather issues.

I'm well aware that the heavy aircraft may well be climbing as well as the smaller types, but to a ground observer, they look to be lower, and slower, simply because of the size.

The other possibility that's not been mentioned in detail is that there have been many more days where 10 has been the active runway, and when that happens, there are regular flights over Ashbourne at the base of the TMA in this area, (1500 Ft), and while they are not normally using much power, there can be significant noise off some types as they configure flaps as part of the speed reduction schedule, the BAE146/RJ family "organ pipe" is well known, and some of the Airbus family can generate similar noise as well.

The King of Dalriada

Irish Steve wrote: »

The westbound departures tend not to come this way, the main extra flights I've noticed are the above mentioned heavy aircraft, the engines are working that bit harder, and they are probably that bit lower and slower than the lighter aircraft.

Just because they're heavy aircraft doesn't mean they're lower, slower or that the engines are working harder.

Irish Steve

The King of Dalriada wrote: »

Just because they're heavy aircraft doesn't mean they're lower, slower or that the engines are working harder.

I'm well aware that the heavy aircraft may well be climbing as well as the smaller types, but to a ground observer, they look to be lower, and slower, simply because of the size.

To answer the specific point from earlier, the noise abatement procedures normally require that the larger aircraft (Category C/D, A320 and above) will climb straight ahead to the outer marker (near Clonee for runway 28) before turning on to the designated departure track. Having said that, for weather avoidance, ATC can and do approve deviations off the designated track to facilitate comfort and safety.

BonkeyDonker

Irish Steve wrote: »

The Liffey departure doesn't come over Ashbourne, the nearest I could see that comes this way is the ROTEV1A, but from experience of listening to the day to day activity, quite often, there will be changes to accommodate weather issues.

They very much do overfly Ashbourne, they may be high 6/7000at the time, but they do cross Ashbourne on the LIFFY departures.

Irish Steve

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

They very much do overfly Ashbourne, they may be high 6/7000at the time, but they do cross Ashbourne on the LIFFY departures.

Oh I know, but having looked at the "official" charts of the SID, which in theory shows a 180 turn back to the DUB VOR, which is somewhat south of Ashbourne, (the track would go over 9 Mile Stone, a mile south of the centre of the town) and given the way that certain people have of "picking" on what they see as errors, officially, the LIFFY SID is south of Ashbourne. I see flights going directly over here on a regular basis, and I suspect that they're going direct Liffy rather than to the VOR.

The point I was trying to get across, with not much success, is that to someone not involved in aviation, if they see a 737, followed shortly by a 777, the 777 will appear to be lower, and slower, simply because it's a larger aircraft, even if it is at exactly the same height as was the 737.

I'm sitting here now typing this, and the last 4 departures (at least) have gone over here rather than to the south, so clearly the "official" diagram is not what ends up being actually flown, and the radius of turn is larger than the diagram shows.

I don't have a problem with overflights of departures or arrivals, and low level VFR traffic is not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

What will change things a little more is when 28R comes into use, as that will push the departure turn about 1.5 Km north of the present track, so we may well see even more flights coming over the town.