Mother dying-how to deal

Dutchess

OK, so I am just going to write this down, and see where it ends up and what people have to say. I'll try to make this coherent but it may end up a bit of a ramble.

I have probably mentioned my mother before on PI, be it in my owns threads or in reply to other people. Basically, she and I have a bad relationship, or rather, no relationship.

For a long time now, she has had drinking problems. This become clear when I was a teenager, say around 14 or so (I am 30 now). Initially we tried to manage this within the family, trying to get her to limit her drinking. This didn't help so professional help came into play. This never helped either, at least any help she got never stuck with her. I think she never really wanted to stop, but she didn't want problems with her husband and daughters either.

The drinking was/is also only part of the issue, she has had mental health issues for some time. She was very controlling of her children, me especially. She has a bad bout of depression just as I started going through puberty. She has always had what I would consider a weird kind of codependency on her family. Like we were all that mattered (I think my sister and I growing up into independence may have made the drinking worse as she had nothing else she cared about). But at the same time, she would routinely lie and hurl abuse at us when we confronted her about drinking in secret. Like many drinkers, she would attempt to keep up appearances.

As I was going through puberty, I very much pushed away from her, which I know is not abnormal. But due to the conflicts around the drinking and other problems, we never really grew close again. In 2006 my father had his 50th birthday, at which she promised not to drink. She did (open bars are dangerous) and during the night my dad caught her and his best friend going at it. I think that was when my resentment of her reached a point of no return.

About 7 months after that I moved to Ireland, my mother was in and out of rehab clinics at the time. My parents were still married and as such there some contact between us. When I got married, my parents and sister came over here. In this time, she also got breast cancer. I mellowed out a bit around then. Treating the drinking problem took a backseat to curing the cancer. But after having been in remission for a few months she took to drinking again. -- At this point I feel I should point out she had a sister who continued to drink in remission from breast cancer, my mother criticised her for that. That sister's cancer came back and she died-- I can't help but feel she started pissing away her second chance.

I'll just fast forward now through all the drama. It is really more of the same. It is worth pointing out my father did divorce her in the end and our contact got even more sporadic from there.

Unsurprisingly, my mother got cancer again, like her sister did. That cancer has no reached the point that it is terminal and the expectation is that my mother will die before the end of the year.

So now my problem is that I don't know how to wrap up what has been an extremely problematic relationship. Of course my father and sister have mentioned that they think I should come over and say goodbye in person.

Right now, all I feel is some anxiety and annoyance. I don't feel sadness at my mother dying, or relief that a bond that has plagued me is nearing its end. I have definitely been permanently marked by my upbringing. I have control and trust issues and take anti depressants. I resent so many things: her lies, her sense of entitlement ("I am your mother so you must..."), how she speaks English fine but always spoke Dutch around my husband.

She never did anything to redeem herself proactively, it is just that she is now so ill and pitiful (not a nice word I know, but the one I feel applies here) that there is pressure on me to forgive and forget, despite what I may feel and be ready for.

I apologise for basically writing a novel. If anyone has reached the end and has some thoughts and input I appreciate it.

racso1975

I suppose the question is can you cope ok afterwards if she dies and you haven't gone to say goodbye. This does not mean you have to forgive her for everything but you may want to just say goodbye to her. I know many people who wosh for the opportunity to say goodbye to a relative as they didn't when they had the opportunity due to built up resentments like yours.

I know her feelings are the last thing you probably want to think about but it might give her some comfort too. I know she may not deserve it etc but thats completely up to you.

Best of luck and I am truly sorry to hear of your mam is dying

ManOfMystery

I think how you move forward here depends entirely on how you think you'll feel afterwards.

PI is full of threads about people with toxic parents and family, and the advice is almost always the same; if they offer nothing good to your life, and you have no feelings for them at all, cut them out. Blood ties really mean nothing if those people are bringing you down.

You have pretty much taken that step already, but are now faced with the reality that there may only be a few months left in which you and your mother can maintain any kind of relationship. Then that chance is gone forever. You say you feel no sadness and only some anxiety and annoyance, so it's clear there's no love or affection there for your mother. With that said however, do you think if she died that you would regret not spending time with her in her last few months? Or will the act of doing so increase your anxiety and re-introduce old issues into your life which you don't want or need?

None of us can really answer that apart from you. You don't owe her anything - but I think you owe it to yourself to carefully consider what you should do, as you're the one who will feel the effects afterwards. It's difficult to predict how a death will effect you, so in that scenario I personally would probably choose to play it safe and try and spend some with her. People can often change when they are facing death and have nothing further to gain or lose by pursuing any kind of toxic behaviour. I'm not saying that would excuse or make up for what's happened in the past, but it may be a chance for your mother to atone for certain actions and for you to perhaps put some closure on them.

silverharp

the way I look at it is that you will only regret the conversations you didnt get a chance to have when she is dead. even if it didn't go well or there is no acknowledgment on her side well at least you can look back with a clear conscience

JillyQ

OP my father has just passed away a little less than a month ago. although I had the complete opposite relantionship with him to one you describe with your mother, in the last week of his life i got to spend it entirely with him, and got to have those conversations and tell him things that I wouldn't normally have been able to say to him. It has actually given me strength to start getting through his passing. What ever your relantionship with your mother you will grieve for her. My advice would be to try for your own sake to have those conversations with her.

Ursus Horribilis

I've seen other threads about this issue and the general consensus seems to be that it's better to go visit the parent one last time. Human emotions are a very complex thing and at times you could argue that they're irrational. Your mother has suffered for many years from mental health problems and alcoholism so perhaps you need to consider what damage they did to her as a person and as a mother. Maybe there was a good person at the back of it all but the mental health problems and the alcoholism put paid to her chances of being a better person.

Really what it boils down to is this: if you have any doubts whatsoever, go visit her. You don't have to try and resolve anything from the past. If you could visit and get back in that plane believing that you'd made your peace with her, would you be happy with that?

Dutchess

Thanks for the replies so far everyone. I guess I am leaning towards going over, but one of the things I am struggling with is what to say when I am there for that visit that we both know will be the final one.

As she has never really made amends for what she's done, I have never really reached a feeling of forgiveness. I read that "I forgive you" is one of those things dying people want to hear but I honestly don't think I have it in me to say that. Growing up with so much lying to keep the peace, I have really developed a distaste for dishonesty of any kind. Of course, I have no idea whether it will even be possible to have a conversation as the morphine and other medications may make her incoherent, but I'm still anxious about it.

Xterminator

hmm, i dont think its really forgiveness that you are going to offer her; oer she to you.

after all she has never sought forgiveness, nor really even acknowledged her mistakes. But dont you acknowledge you have not been the perfect daughter either?

nope its closure that you should aim for. a chance to end things on a better note than they are currently on. a chance to let her know you are appreciative of the positive things she has done (im assuming there were some).

will she reciprocate? maybe, maybe not. if she is not too lucid, then you are at worst communicating non verbally. but you should get some peace of mind, and so might your father.

racso1975

I would purely be looking at it from the perspective of saying goodbye and being able to close that chapter to an extent. Anything else may be a bonus but set your expectations low on this one.

Ursus Horribilis

I think if you visit and keep it superficial, it'd help. A sort of "Hi mum, how are you?" approach if you like. From your perspective, have your last meeting with your mother one where you were kind to her and you parted on civil terms.

Skibunny77

The reality is your mother failed you throughout your life. You've built a life without her and you've recognised that aspects of your childhood have shaped your adult life - and now you're in the position to spend time with a woman who was so powerful in the earlier part of your life and now is completely vulnerable. She is unlikely to have transformed into an insightful parent, you're not likely to get anything significant from her in relation to the issues you have experienced and you don't have to forgive her - but here is what I caution. Right now, at this stage in your life, you may not regret seeing her, however, this may change across your life cycle - as you age. You do not need to go and offer forgiveness, however you could offer a very human message of 'Mum, I'm wishing you peace and comfort. You're in good hands, you're not alone etc.' Simple basic messages that acknowledge the influence she has had in your life (for better or worse) and that no matter what, you wish her well, as she faces into her final days. Please be kind to yourself and don't underestimate the emotion you may experience, even if it is simply the sadness you feel for the childhood she put you through. Take care of yourself.

LegacyUser

ManOfMystery wrote: »

PI is full of threads about people with toxic parents and family, and the advice is almost always the same; if they offer nothing good to your life, and you have no feelings for them at all, cut them out. Blood ties really mean nothing if those people are bringing you down

Nonsense. These people brought you into the world, changed your nappies, stayed up all night when you were ill.

They are not accessories to be dismissed if they are not working for you anymore. You owe them everything.

Have some respect for yourself and for your parents, even if it means putting yourself out. They will be dead long enough.

Ursus Horribilis

jessia malboy wrote: »

Nonsense. These people brought you into the world, changed your nappies, stayed up all night when you were ill.

They are not accessories to be dismissed if they are not working for you anymore. You owe them everything.

Have some respect for yourself and for your parents, even if it means putting yourself out. They will be dead long enough.

It is never as black and white as that. I am of the belief that people shouldn't completely cut contact with their parents unless they have to. Distance themselves if need be but never quite cut the cord. Having said that, there are are some appalling parents out there. People who really should never have had children. Not every person is a good parent and there's a lot more to parenting than giving birth and changing nappies. I've seen some awful threads here from people whose mothers were incredibly nasty to them, not one bit loving and did the bare minimum. It's hard to advise people in those cases to keep in contact with them.

In the case of Dutchess, I don't get the sense that her mother was one of the really bad ones. It's beyond argument that she wasn't a good mother and that she's better off not having her as an integral part of her life. But if she has any doubts at all about seeing her, she's better off going. Even if it is just a short visit.

There was guy who started a thread here a few months ago about his father. He'd got word that his father was in a coma and dying. In this case, the father was a really bad egg - he was violent, he had sexually abused his daughter and had walked out on his family leaving them in poverty. In the end, he went to see him and was quite emotional about it. Even though on paper his father wasn't someone he had seen for years or liked, there was still some sort of emotional pull. In cases like these, you don't go for the sake of the parent. You go for yourself and to have closure/make peace.

eviltwin

jessia malboy wrote: »

Nonsense. These people brought you into the world, changed your nappies, stayed up all night when you were ill.

They are not accessories to be dismissed if they are not working for you anymore. You owe them everything.

Have some respect for yourself and for your parents, even if it means putting yourself out. They will be dead long enough.

This is such a disrespectful post and completely dismissive of the experience of the OP. Respect has to be earned, it's not a given, and if you treat someone badly you've no right to expect their support or sympathy.

Dutchess I would do what feels appropriate for you not what is expected. The closure may be good for you even if you don't get the apology you deserve. Then again it may not help. It's an impossible thing to call, you can only make the best decision you can and there is no right or wrong.

ManOfMystery

jessia malboy wrote: »

Nonsense. These people brought you into the world, changed your nappies, stayed up all night when you were ill.

They are not accessories to be dismissed if they are not working for you anymore. You owe them everything.

Have some respect for yourself and for your parents, even if it means putting yourself out. They will be dead long enough.

I'm a parent. When I'm old, I will never, ever expect thanks from my son because I helped bring him into the world, changed his nappies or stayed up all night when he was ill. Looking after him is my duty as a parent. I chose to bring him into the world, he didn't have a say in it. He doesn't owe me anything.

What I will hope to get back from him is his respect and his love. And I'll get that by treating him with the same respect (showing him that it's earned, not given freely) and love.

I'm open to a lot of viewpoints and perspectives on this forum, but your post is simply 100% wrong. You do not owe 'everything' to anyone - even parents - who treat you like crap. Anyone who lives under the threat of abuse from toxic parents or other family members should free themselves from that situation as soon as they're independent enough to do so, for the good of their own well-being.

seamus

OP, I think one of the things that you perhaps need to drop is any expectations. You seem to have built up the visit as requiring you to go and make peace.

She never did anything to redeem herself proactively, it is just that she is now so ill and pitiful (not a nice word I know, but the one I feel applies here) that there is pressure on me to forgive and forget, despite what I may feel and be ready for.

I don't know if this pressure is coming externally or internally, but either way it's wrong. You say she's never looked for forgiveness, so it makes no sense for you to arrive over and tell her everything is fine, all is forgiven.

So I would suggest that you remove that pressure. Don't expect confessions or begging for forgiveness. Just go in because you're visiting a person who is dying, who was important to you at some point in your life. And you in hers. Go with no expectations of what will happen and who will say what, and just roll with whatever comes.

You may ask why bother then? Purely to resolve the "what if" issue. You don't go and you may ask yourself in 20 years time what may have happened if you went. You may agonise over the thought that your mother may have apologised and paid penance for everything, but you never had it in you to go.

If you go, whatever happens, happens. You might forgive her and be glad you had the chance. Or she might be exactly the same person with no concept of what she's done. Either way there won't be a "what if" question to haunt you in later years.

jigglypuffstuff

OP, while things are never completely black and white, but this is a no brainer imo

You will only ever have one mother in your lifetime, and once she is gone you will never (let that sink in) get another chance to make amends, forgive her and leave the past be the past

At the end of the day, we are all humans, we all make mistakes and we are never perfect.

My advice would be to not give this another thought and start making arrangements to see your mom, and let the past be the past.

Parents are not like friends, they don't come and go temporally...they just go

Also, im sorry to read that your mom is unwell

Best of luck

LegacyUser

As someone who has lost both parents at a young age, although I had good relationships with both, i feel that if you don't go to see her you may just regret it for the next 50 years or so.

My opinion....take the power and choice into your own hands and never wonder 'what if'

It may well be just what you need

Feel

Dutchess wrote: »

She never did anything to redeem herself proactively, it is just that she is now so ill and pitiful (not a nice word I know, but the one I feel applies here) that there is pressure on me to forgive and forget, despite what I may feel and be ready for.

It is not ok that there is pressure put on you. I'm not sure if that are your own thoughts or if this is caused by others. I hope that the rest of your family will have a balanced view. You should be allowed to express what you feel and that you are not ready to forgive and forget. And maybe there is something possible beyond that for you.

anewme

Some very helpful opinions here. Its a difficult one OP and firstly, sorry for your troubles.

As someone who has had a parent who it has to be said, was a terrible Father growing up and at one point was estranged from the family for a long time and at one point maybe even ended living homeless - through his own fault!

Eventually, after years bridges were built, not even bridges, but acceptances , while it will never be a normal family life, but it is our family. I dont have a close relationship with him, in fact he told my sister that sometimes he does not know what to say to me, so we dont say anything, chat about the weather, sport and have a cuppa tea and a biscuit. There is no such thing as a perfect family, perfect son, perfect daughter, every family has its own problems.

I'm a bit older than you and had it been 20 years or so ago I would have been the same, ah feck him I am not going near him, but then as I got older, I am glad I got the opportunity for things to settle. You see things differently as the years pass.

You are putting too much of a dramatic pressure on yourself , but the reality is not like the movies, life does not for the most part have emotional death bed forgiveness scenes so please dont put that pressure on yourself.

On your part, it is just a visit, out of respect. I will even go the selfish route and say, you are not doing it for her, you are doing it for yourself. And I dont mean that in a bad way.

Acceptance is the word I would use for this not forgiveness. Your life has been what it is and you are where you are now.

Firstly, I will say, your post does not come across as bitter but please understand what I am trying to say here.

A very good friend of mine once gave me this advice "bitterness only effects the bitter party" It was the best advice anyone has ever given me and I use it all the time. Every time I get uptight when someone has slighted me intentionally or unintentionally (even if I am in the right and going to dig my heels in) I say that to myself and it helps me.

I think people here understand that there is no right and wrong answers here and you need to do what's best for yourself.