work being outsourced with no reason

superconfused

Hi,

Can anyone help me find information online regarding employees rights with outsourcing.

Currently me and a group of people have worked for our company which is quite large for 8 years or more,we have been told our department has been outsourced to another country.

There was no reason why given to us just that this was happening,however the company is not downsizing,our department is not redundent as its active with the outsourced team and we were not required anywhere else to do similar work, we had been originally offered roles that our union confirmed would be a demotion, however this was before our employer became aware our roles were permanent and contracted for our department specifically. Prior to this our company were under the impression our roles were seconded for some odd reason and that no redundency would be offered.

This is causing a major headache now as our work is gone now and the department basically sitting twiddling their thumbs with no work while another team in another country do it.

I understand that outsourcing is of course legal but are the any specifications or rules companies must abide by before they can enforce this?

We were advised 30 ays prior to the work going and then things got messy when our contracts came into play.

Right now we are in limbo and have no idea whats going on while our union go back and forther with the company over the last few weeks

mahoganygas

Sorry to hear this OP.

Which country are the roles moving to?
It sounds like they are moving the roles to a cheaper labour market. Companies are well within their rights to do this.

It's your union's job to either secure internal transfers at a similar package, or to get a decent redundancy for you

I suggest speaking to the management and demonstrating your worth to the company. Identify another role you feel suited to and ask for a shot at it.

Best of luck with it all.

superconfused

mahoganygas wrote: »

Sorry to hear this OP.

Which country are the roles moving to?
It sounds like they are moving the roles to a cheaper labour market. Companies are well within their rights to do this.

It's your union's job to either secure internal transfers at a similar package, or to get a decent redundancy for you

I suggest speaking to the management and demonstrating your worth to the company. Identify another role you feel suited to and ask for a shot at it.

Best of luck with it all.

Thanks for you input.

I dont want to go into too much detail for obvious reasons but its an asian country and we have found out the new employees are getting paid 1/9 of our salary each.

The union are trying to secure roles as good as ours but they said the company dont seem to have anything prepared for us and just today weve been told that the company want to meet 121 to "entice to other roles" which means probably the same roles they offered before but with maybe a little better benifits, the union have advised we do not have to accept as the roles are still not of the same status of our previous ones.

I only mention status of our roles as we all interviewed and worked really hard to get these from the ground up and now they are just gone like that, its a real sting for us when youve been dedicated and comiited for so long to your job

mahoganygas

Keep in mind that it's in your Union's interest for you to negotiate as a group.

It's in the companies interest to do 121's as they can cherry pick and assign people to roles they feel are best suited to them.

Take a look at the financial state of your company and any recent budgetary decisions - cuts to benefits, delayed hiring, tightening of purse strings. If you suspect your company are cost cutting then meeting your team 121 is a great way to trim the fat.

Negotiating as a group may result in less for everyone.

Mod
Have deleted the last line of this post, It was offensive to Irish workers. Please do not post such offensive remarks here again

godtabh

superconfused wrote: »

Thanks for you input.

I dont want to go into too much detail for obvious reasons but its an asian country and we have found out the new employees are getting paid 1/9 of our salary each.

The union are trying to secure roles as good as ours but they said the company dont seem to have anything prepared for us and just today weve been told that the company want to meet 121 to "entice to other roles" which means probably the same roles they offered before but with maybe a little better benifits, the union have advised we do not have to accept as the roles are still not of the same status of our previous ones.

I only mention status of our roles as we all interviewed and worked really hard to get these from the ground up and now they are just gone like that, its a real sting for us when youve been dedicated and comiited for so long to your job

What's the alternative to not accepting the roles? Redundancy?

superconfused

godtabh wrote: »

What's the alternative to not accepting the roles? Redundancy?

Hi,

To quote the union "continue what you are currently doing until something different comes up or it comes to a head"(they mentioned it may go to a 3rd party to resolve if something doesnt satisfy both parties early on so i think this is what they mean)

I think a redundency discussion would sort this out but like i said they originally said no that womnt be happening but then the playing field changed so to speak.

If it does come to that does anyone know if we have to discuss that individually or do unions usually negotiate on their members behalf?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

superconfused

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

thanks fred.

As weve never been in this position before we only have peoples previous experience to go on which can be helpful but i understand that each of these situations are unique.

Statutory of 2 weeks doesnt leave us with a lot to be honest so i do hope that if it does come to that the union can negotiate a good settlement for us

PMBC

Best of luck with your negotiations.
Pretty poor management if they didn't know your employment status. Obviously outsourcing is cost saving for them. I don't agree with the poster who said ...... bloated Irish......not helpful. It amy be just the same numbers but one ninth the labour cost .... short term.

BrokenArrows

You might be able to negotiate a better salary/role.

But if the company is outsourcing then they are trying to cut costs so i wouldn't hope for much.

In either case your job is at risk so id get looking for a new job now and enjoy the time off in the office.

If you can manage to land a new job you might be able to time it so that you get paid redundancy and then walk into a new job straight away.

ThisRegard

I don't know the details of your role or company but you might be better meeting directly with management and bypass the company and discuss your position individually. You're being told by the company that they don't have the same "status" but who knows, they might open up further opportunities that you might not have been aware of.

If there's several of you, the union won't really be in a position to do this for you.

Jimbob1977

On two occasions, outsourcing struck my company. The Irish roles were outsourced to lower cost European and Asian countries.

Our company was non-unionised; however the employer's redundancy terms were very, very generous.... so it was a nice carrot for employees that wanted to leave and get a fat cheque.

In some cases, roles were retained in Ireland and two people were told that they were fighting for one job. This led to some bizarre game-playing.

If you refused the role, it was seen as a refusal to work and you could leave with no redundancy cheque.

There were many instances where colleagues would meet up before the interview to decide who wanted to stay in work and who wanted the redundancy.

Person 1 would produce a great interview and Person 2 would almost throw the interview to gift the role to Person 1. Everyone got the desired outcome. Job for Person 1 and cheque for Person 2.

In my case, I was the only candidate. Hence I kept my job. There was no package. Would have loved a package!

It got messy when nobody wanted to stay and there was an open role to be filled. You could become the unfortunate recipient of a job you didn't want, while your colleague got a delicious cheque.

Anyway, back to your issue:

o Any new role should not be considered a demotion. Your union should guide you here. There's some legislation that stipulates that a reduction in your powers and prestige is not a valid role reassignment.

o If you retain the same job title, but the substance or scope of the job changes by x%, it is not the same job. I know a woman who consulted a solicitor and played the long game. The employer eventually gave her the redundancy package.

In both of the above, I think you'd have a valid case for redundancy if they diminished your status.

If the employer recognises your union (they don't have to), then your union should bat for you. Putting staff in roles that are more 'junior' is always troublesome.

If the employer does not recognise your union, Consultative Forums might be the way to go. Pick a few people from your peers to represent you and determine if the employer will engage.

Depending on the employer, some redundancy packages are meagre... while some are gold plated.

In any negotiations, you need to be forceful but factual. There's no room for histrionics and exaggeration. I hope you get the desired outcome.

Sadly, many Irish redundancy packages are bare minimum. However, a meagre package could prompt a mass exodus from the remaining staff if they know the employer is parsimonious.

freedominacup

PMBC wrote: »

Best of luck with your negotiations.
Pretty poor management if they didn't know your employment status. Obviously outsourcing is cost saving for them. I don't agree with the poster who said ...... bloated Irish......not helpful. It amy be just the same numbers but one ninth the labour cost .... short term.

It would seem to more like a bloated management team to me with more than a few people having been promoted beyond their skillset as evidenced by not checking something as basic as contracts before rushing the fences. I don't think the company can make the op or any of their team redundant as the jobs are still there still being done. I'd normally be on the bosses side in ind disputes but when "managers" to use the term loosely screw up like this they deserve to get it worked up in their holes for incompetence. In fact if the company in question really wants to achieve some of the cost savings a few of these managers getting the road for this sort of incompetence would get them some of their money.