Would you keep an 11 year old suckler cow or not

cacs

I have great 11 year old sim cow. Breeds a great calf every year great on her feet massive milker. This year i notice the calf is shredding her teats. I guess its age aswell. Shes gone in calf should i inject her and factory her or Should i keep her

Grueller

I have a 13 yr old here back in calf. Has had eleven calves, 10 have shipped and so will number eleven. If the cow is good enough and able enough I would keep her.

FeelTheBern

I'd keep as well. Noticed few cows over last few weeks with cuts on teat myself - young and old.

Kovu

A calf will shred teats at this time of year regardless of the cows age. I'd keep her on, some of our best producing cows are 9/10 years of age and will be here a few more years with a bit of luck.
Just be advised that an older cow doesn't have as much 'fight' to her, if she gets sick it will knock her very quick. Her colostrum also won't be as good as a younger model so just keep an eye on the calf for the first few days.

cacs

FeelTheBern wrote: »

I'd keep as well. Noticed few cows over last few weeks with cuts on teat myself - young and old.

I am softy at heart hate culling the good ones

dh1985

Found Bio oil is good for hacks on teats. I am sure there are other treatments. Maybe dairy lads would have some more. 11 is not terribly old. If she is breeding well and in good shape I would keep her

farmerjj

dh1985 wrote: »

Found Bio oil is good for hacks on teats. I am sure there are other treatments. Maybe dairy lads would have some more. 11 is not terribly old. If she is breeding well and in good shape I would keep her

I started putting sudocrem on the cows teats when they've cut, its great stuff 3\4 days and its healed.

TPF2012

Have an 11 year old here with a persistent scour since she calved. What would ye do with her, have tried a few different drenches, thought the last one worked but notice her back scouring.

Kovu

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have an 11 year old here with a persistent scour since she calved. What would ye do with her, have tried a few different drenches, thought the last one worked but notice her back scouring.

You could take a sample and get it tested maybe?

whelan2

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have an 11 year old here with a persistent scour since she calved. What would ye do with her, have tried a few different drenches, thought the last one worked but notice her back scouring.

can overdosing cause a problem

TPF2012

Kovu wrote: »

You could take a sample and get it tested maybe?

Have never taken a dung sample. Do you send it to the vet or a lab? Have thought about doing a dung sample, but had the vet here and was told to dose. Thought that would sort it. Only had a one cow here in my memory with scour, it killed her though.

blue5000

OP all my older cows were cleared out with TB the past couple of years. The herd is a lot healthier now, in future I will be culling at 10 yrs regardless of how healthy they are before problems start.

It depends on how big a herd you have, if your numbers are smaller it might be easier to look after a few older cows, less bullying etc. Once calving is over and they're out to grass they are usually over the hump for another year.

patsy_mccabe

I've 3 12 year olds here. Two good ones, both 5 star and one hit and miss with calf quality. She's only 2 stars. The only downside with older cows is gets more likely to find them dead in the field as the years go by.

cacs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I've 3 12 year olds here. Two good ones, both 5 star and one hit and miss with calf quality. She's only 2 stars. The only downside with older cows is gets more likely to find them dead in the field as the years go buy.

I have neighbors who would shoot anything too

cacs

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have an 11 year old here with a persistent scour since she calved. What would ye do with her, have tried a few different drenches, thought the last one worked but notice her back scouring.

Had a cow with a really bad scour she was fading away. One vet didn't entertain there was anything wrong . Got another vet he spent a half an hour examining her. Took away blood and dung sample found she had Cronin infestation of stomach fluke . Dosed her I would say she gained 150 kg since start of summer no calf on her mind you.

TPF2012

whelan2 wrote: »

can overdosing cause a problem

She has had two doses, one 2 months ago and again a month ago. Was going to give her another dose this week.She is very thin now, thought she was drying up after the last one but notice she is scouring again.
Want to try the dung sample, do you send it to a lab, like farmlab or is it through the vet. Vet has not mentioned dung sample even though asked him twice about her?

Kovu

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have never taken a dung sample. Do you send it to the vet or a lab? Have thought about doing a dung sample, but had the vet here and was told to dose. Thought that would sort it. Only had a one cow here in my memory with scour, it killed her though.

I've no idea actually But have heard it mentioned here numerous times so perhaps someone can put you on the right path.

Bass Reeves

OP if you are inclined to let her calf down again so be it but I would cull next year. This allows you time to find a replacement. I consider this the main weakness in Irish suckler herds no replacement policy. A suckler farmer I know works on the policy calves down replacements at 22-24 month. He finds that he has a good few culls with first and second calvers but after than cows in general have a clear run until 10 years of age. He then culls at this age regardless of issues. He culls any cow without a calf or where the calf dies.

I think his culling rate is up around 20%. He works on the theory that acull cow is worth as more than a heifer when you are selling good cull cows finished.

cathal irwin wrote: »

Had a cow with a really bad scour she was fading away. One vet didn't entertain there was anything wrong . Got another vet he spent a half an hour examining her. Took away blood and dung sample found she had Cronin infestation of stomach fluke . Dosed her I would say she gained 150 kg since start of summer no calf on her mind you.

If she has no calf are you finishing her to send her to the factory.

Mooooo

TPF2012 wrote: »

whelan2 wrote: »

can overdosing cause a problem

She has had two doses, one 2 months ago and again a month ago. Was going to give her another dose this week.She is very thin now, thought she was drying up after the last one but notice she is scouring again.
Want to try the dung sample, do you send it to a lab, like farmlab or is it through the vet. Vet has not mentioned dung sample even though asked him twice about her?

If you haven't had a herd test in the last 6 months I would test the scouring cow for johnes as well as doing a dung sample.

Never wrestle with pigs

TPF2012 wrote: »

She has had two doses, one 2 months ago and again a month ago. Was going to give her another dose this week.She is very thin now, thought she was drying up after the last one but notice she is scouring again.
Want to try the dung sample, do you send it to a lab, like farmlab or is it through the vet. Vet has not mentioned dung sample even though asked him twice about her?

What did you dose her for? Go into your vet and ask for a dung sample pot. Bring it back to him and he will send it off.

If it's liver fluke and it gets bad her liver will give up and she'll fall over.

If it's rumen fluke and it gets very bad she will die from dehydration, she'll scour herself to death.

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

If you haven't had a herd test in the last 6 months I would test the scouring cow for johnes as well as doing a dung sample.

would an 11 year old cow survive this long with no symptoms of johnes?

TPF2012

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

What did you dose her for? Go into your vet and ask for a dung sample pot. Bring it back to him and he will send it off.

If it's liver fluke and it gets bad her liver will give up and she'll fall over.

If it's rumen fluke and it gets very bad she will die from dehydration, she'll scour herself to death.

Gave her Albex10 first then Levafas diamond. Does Levafas diamond treat rumen fluke? I was under impression it did, but not sure now. Thinking she might have rumen fluke.

Never wrestle with pigs

TPF2012 wrote: »

Gave her Albex10 first then Levafas diamond. Does Levafas diamond treat rumen fluke? I was under impression it did, but not sure now. Thinking she might have rumen fluke.

I find zanil very good. You have to go agin after 10 weeks to hit the immature fluke that the dose won't kill.

The Levafas diamond still covers the rumen fluke but you have to cover them twice the same as zanil I think.

grassroot1

Kovu wrote: »

You could take a sample and get it tested maybe?

Johnes? you would have to be concerned

TPF2012

grassroot1 wrote: »

Johnes? you would have to be concerned

Have a closed herd here, is it possible to be Johnes, never seen on the farm previous?

whelan2

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have a closed herd here, is it possible to be Johnes, never seen on the farm previous?

Very doubtful. But would test her anyway

Limestone Cowboy

Have a 16 year old cow and she's as fit as some of the cows half her age. I have being saying with a few years that I'll get rid of her but she keeps on going back in calf early and is left around.

Noveight

16yo cow here. Was bought 13 or so years ago along with 3 more from the same herd. A year later and she was the only one of the 4 left thanks to red water and TB. She wont be put in calf for next year, her work for us is done

whelan2

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have a closed herd here, is it possible to be Johnes, never seen on the farm previous?

Does she have a swelling under her jaw?

Buford T. Justice XIX

blue5000 wrote: »

OP all my older cows were cleared out with TB the past couple of years. The herd is a lot healthier now, in future I will be culling at 10 yrs regardless of how healthy they are before problems start.

It depends on how big a herd you have, if your numbers are smaller it might be easier to look after a few older cows, less bullying etc. Once calving is over and they're out to grass they are usually over the hump for another year.

An older farmer near me reckons April is the killer month.

You have time over winter to feed them a bit better or mind them in a separate pen and over spring to a lesser extent.

But the pressure mounts in April and you won't have time to mind them then so it's then that they start getting put under pressure and fade quickly.

OP, if the cow is in good condition and still producing good calves, I would keep her but the first time of her looking under pressure I would move her on straight away.

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

If you haven't had a herd test in the last 6 months I would test the scouring cow for johnes as well as doing a dung sample.

would an 11 year old cow survive this long with no symptoms of johnes?

I dunno really, if she has had calves every year I doubt it but if she has rolled over a few times I think they may reach that age esp if they are not under pressure being milked or rearing a calf, could be wrong haven't seen it here at least I hope I haven't anyway

blue5000

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

An older farmer near me reckons April is the killer month.

You have time over winter to feed them a bit better or mind them in a separate pen and over spring to a lesser extent.

But the pressure mounts in April and you won't have time to mind them then so it's then that they start getting put under pressure and fade quickly.

OP, if the cow is in good condition and still producing good calves, I would keep her but the first time of her looking under pressure I would move her on straight away.

Agree with this, I reckon myself if I die of natural causes it will be in March, everything is at a low ebb that time of year.

Who2

A neighbour has a cow coming close to thirty. Still producing even though it's at a slower rate the last few years. I've a theory that cows produce their best calves on their third to fifth callings and they slowly get slacker as the years go on. I've a couple of 11 and twelve year olds but they are getting fewer every year, your better off keeping them youngish imo.

The Cuban

Depends on how well Culls are going. This spring was a great time to offload old cows. I averaged over 1100 per cow this year, one of them was near 17 years old, she had calved 2 months and I weaned the calf and off loaded her

Hobby farmer

Had an 18 year old cow here, she was brilliant produced cracking calves year after year! We are fragmented into 3 blocks and when we moved cattle she led the way always knew exactly where to go! The father was very down the street she had to go. I say so long as they are comfortable producing for ya keep them on

The man in red and black

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have a closed herd here, is it possible to be Johnes, never seen on the farm previous?

Yes, it is possible. I unfortunately diagnosed Johnes in two scoury cows on a suckler farm in the UK, hadn't bought in a single animal, (only AI or embryos coming in) since the late 80's. Suddenly two cows with clinical textbook Johnes. Blooded the herd and several carriers detected. Question is when it came in. There is a school of thought that it can be present in a herd but perhaps never be spotted for a long time due to cows being culled for other reasons. It has such a long incubation period and not every animal develops clinical disease that it could be more prevalent than we think. You would have to assume a cow would be more likely to show clinical signs if already run down with other disease such as parasites, metabolic disease etc.

Who2 wrote: »

A neighbour has a cow coming close to thirty. Still producing even though it's at a slower rate the last few years. .

That's some going! Still calving?

Who2

That's some going! Still calving?

Calved last year anyway, didn't think to ask him this year.

Bellview

The man in red and black wrote: »

TPF2012 wrote: »

Have a closed herd here, is it possible to be Johnes, never seen on the farm previous?

Yes, it is possible. I unfortunately diagnosed Johnes in two scoury cows on a suckler farm in the UK, hadn't bought in a single animal, (only AI or embryos coming in) since the late 80's. Suddenly two cows with clinical textbook Johnes. Blooded the herd and several carriers detected. Question is when it came in. There is a school of thought that it can be present in a herd but perhaps never be spotted for a long time due to cows being culled for other reasons. It has such a long incubation period and not every animal develops clinical disease that it could be more prevalent than we think. You would have to assume a cow would be more likely to show clinical signs if already run down with other disease such as parasites, metabolic disease etc.

is there an age where most at risk of Johnes - i went to a demo night and vet mentioned 8 yrs as highest risk age. we have been testing for Johnes for a number of years. Has the test accuracy improved recently as I know in past vets wished it could be higher

whelan2

Bellview wrote: »

is there an age where most at risk of Johnes - i went to a demo night and vet mentioned 8 yrs as highest risk age. we have been testing for Johnes for a number of years. Has the test accuracy improved recently as I know in past vets wished it could be higher

not many johnes positive animals would live to be 8. Any age from 2-5 years is when they start to show signs , then its curtains

TPF2012

At present minute I'm no further on in knowing what the story is. Got a dung test done, turned up clear for everything, no rumen or liver fluke. Vet then gave me Noradine and colvascone, injections for 5 days. No change, so it is not bacterial either, don't known if it's worth ringing vet again, just think it'll be more expense on a doomed animal.

Who2

TPF2012 wrote: »

At present minute I'm no further on in knowing what the story is. Got a dung test done, turned up clear for everything, no rumen or liver fluke. Vet then gave me Noradine and colvascone, injections for 5 days. No change, so it is not bacterial either, don't known if it's worth ringing vet again, just think it'll be more expense on a doomed animal.

take your hit and hang her up, youd never know she might be transmitting whatever she has.

greysides

I'd agree with the idea of getting rid of her but you need to watch withdrawal times if you're thinking of factorying her, if she's fit.

TPF2012

Who2 wrote: »

take your hit and hang her up, youd never know she might be transmitting whatever she has.

Withdrawal for colvascone is 21 days. Anyway we have never sent an animal to the factory, always mart or to dealer off farm. She looks a wreak at the minute,must have lost 200kg from last summer. Her calf is 3.5 months, not thriving as well as similar aged calves. Don't creep feed calves here, if the cow is removed, would it need a nut or crunch to supplement grass. Never had to wean a calf so young here before.

Bass Reeves

TPF2012 wrote: »

Withdrawal for colvascone is 21 days. Anyway we have never sent an animal to the factory, always mart or to dealer off farm. She looks a wreak at the minute,must have lost 200kg from last summer. Her calf is 3.5 months, not thriving as well as similar aged calves. Don't creep feed calves here, if the cow is removed, would it need a nut or crunch to supplement grass. Never had to wean a calf so young here before.

You would be better off weaning him ASAP. Put the two of them in a small field use an electric fence or a creep gate to allow him access to an weanling crunch. If you had a bucket fed calf he would bring him to the crunch

blue5000

I reckon seperate them from the rest, put the cow and calf on meal, for the final week get one of then quiet wean nose bands on the calf. This way the calf will be on meal and weaned by the time the cow goes.

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon seperate them from the rest, put the cow and calf on meal, for the final week get one of then quiet wean nose bands on the calf. This way the calf will be on meal and weaned by the time the cow goes.

No point in giving the cow meal as she will just scour it out.

The man in red and black

Bellview wrote: »

is there an age where most at risk of Johnes - i went to a demo night and vet mentioned 8 yrs as highest risk age. we have been testing for Johnes for a number of years. Has the test accuracy improved recently as I know in past vets wished it could be higher

The testing is still not as sensitive as you would like, however, in an animal that is sick with Johne's and scouring, the test is actually far more sensitive so it would show up the majority of cows that have it and are scouring. The problem with the testing is the moderate sensitivity in the cows that are not sick but are carriers. They are much harder to detect and so you get into doing bloods and dung also.