Getting into Investment Banking with a good foundation

ghjkl

I'm just wondering if anyone here is in the industry or with one of the bulge bracket banks in London, and if you have any advice for breaking into the business. I have good academics etc and am looking for advice how to get my foot in the door basically.

I am going into second year in a high points maths / finance course in ucd, my GPA is equivalent to a first. I got over 600 in the lc, A1s in maths, accounting and economics.

So far I'm applying to spring weeks as they become available.

newacc2015

I have friends who did the internships in the big investment banks. Most of them were heavily involved in the finance societies in college, so the likes of A&F in DCU, SMF in TCD etc. You need to start getting involved in the finance societies. They will have private events where various representatives will come to speak to the society about jobs/internships. Speak to the speakers after the event and make sure they know their name. I was told by HR in a big five event once to make the managing director knew my name before leaving the room, as she tends to look more favourably over people who she has met when it comes to applications.

Im guessing you are in the finance course in UCD that is close to 600 points? Apparently everyone in it gets a highly paid finance job. Honestly it will sounds snobby, but if you go to TCD or UCD it opens so many doors.

Having a decent a decent linkedin is key. When you start applying for internships you will see some of the recruiters will fact check on linkedin what you do etc.

Spring weeks are a good chance at getting a proper summer internship. Dont knock some of the firms in Dublin. Citi has a serious operation in Dublin. Credit Suisse are expending their one here. Generally if you start in Dublin and you are good, they will have no issue transferring you to anywhere else especially since a lot of companies since a lot of companies see Dublin an expansion of their London operations rather than a separate company

ixus

Investment banking is broad term. Can you narrow down specifically what you want to do?

M&A, Sales, Fixed Income, Quant, Trader etc.

Do you know which bank/firm operates or specializes in what sector?

After this, do you know who your competitors are and what you need to be ahead?

Best thing is to figure out the kind of person you are and what sector you are most suited to. E.g. maybe you k ow a fair bit about commodities and would be better suited to Barclays or Shell as an oil trader at a desk or, out in the field with Trafigura.

You could be all numbers and better suited to Virtu or SIG. Or, in fixed income with PIMCO.

Maybe, despite your maths background, you are a people person and better suited to sales at Goldman.

There is a broad spectrum and a lot of opportunity outside the IB's who may not be in a hiring cycle when you get out of college. Lots of options and internships out there.

I get hit up all the time for linkedin connections from undergrads. Inhave a brief look and decide whether to accept or not. It's rare then the person actually makes contact with me. I have, when in a specific role in the past, met guys for a coffee. Not my gig anymore but should encourage you to be proactive about doing so. This was in Dublin, London might be different.

ghjkl

ixus wrote: »

Investment banking is broad term. Can you narrow down specifically what you want to do?

M&A, Sales, Fixed Income, Quant, Trader etc.

Do you know which bank/firm operates or specializes in what sector?

After this, do you know who your competitors are and what you need to be ahead?

Best thing is to figure out the kind of person you are and what sector you are most suited to. E.g. maybe you k ow a fair bit about commodities and would be better suited to Barclays or Shell as an oil trader at a desk or, out in the field with Trafigura.

You could be all numbers and better suited to Virtu or SIG. Or, in fixed income with PIMCO.

Maybe, despite your maths background, you are a people person and better suited to sales at Goldman.

There is a broad spectrum and a lot of opportunity outside the IB's who may not be in a hiring cycle when you get out of college. Lots of options and internships out there.

I get hit up all the time for linkedin connections from undergrads. Inhave a brief look and decide whether to accept or not. It's rare then the person actually makes contact with me. I have, when in a specific role in the past, met guys for a coffee. Not my gig anymore but should encourage you to be proactive about doing so. This was in Dublin, London might be different.

I appreciate I'm not really being specific, the main reason being that since I haven't had any experience in any banks I can't say what definitely is or isn't for me. My current thought process is that the ibd at Goldman would be my first choice, I'd love to have something people facing. However I'm also looking into sales and trading and places like sig as I know they have a strong Irish presence and hire a lot from my course.

Ideally I'd be able to break into some of the London branches as I feel there's a higher ceiling there than Dublin and better exit ops.

I don't currently have a LinkedIn but will definitely set one up

newacc2015

ghjkl wrote: »

I appreciate I'm not really being specific, the main reason being that since I haven't had any experience in any banks I can't say what definitely is or isn't for me. My current thought process is that the ibd at Goldman would be my first choice, I'd love to have something people facing. However I'm also looking into sales and trading and places like sig as I know they have a strong Irish presence and hire a lot from my course.

Ideally I'd be able to break into some of the London branches as I feel there's a higher ceiling there than Dublin and better exit ops.

I don't currently have a LinkedIn but will definitely set one up

I was told in college to avoid trading as in the exact words of some of the staff "even a monkey can do it". When you are doing well, the company is happy. When you performing badly, expect to hand you ID and laptop on the way out in reception. An analyst is considered a decent job. It is not glamorous, but no one is going to fire you for recommending GE or Apple.

One thing to need to understand is that the UK has a very different culture to the UK. Im working in a company at the moment with a strong UK presence. We have a lot of English managers and the Irish managers will tell you they dont find them particularly good. They will tell you are wrong, but wont tell you have to be better or support you to be better. Where as an Irish manager will help you a lot more. British are a lot more cut throat than Irish in Financial Services. It is not as if the Irish are less concerned with doing their job properly, they just handle themselves differently to the Brits.

London is great. But if you dont get it, it is not the end of the world

Even as an undergrad you will be headhunted on linkedin.

BTW if you want advice on SIG, PM me

ixus

newacc2015 wrote: »

I was told in college to avoid trading as in the exact words of some of the staff "even a monkey can do it". When you are doing well, the company is happy. When you performing badly, expect to hand you ID and laptop on the way out in reception. An analyst is considered a decent job. It is not glamorous, but no one is going to fire you for recommending GE or Apple.

One thing to need to understand is that the UK has a very different culture to the UK. Im working in a company at the moment with a strong UK presence. We have a lot of English managers and the Irish managers will tell you they dont find them particularly good. They will tell you are wrong, but wont tell you have to be better or support you to be better. Where as an Irish manager will help you a lot more. British are a lot more cut throat than Irish in Financial Services. It is not as if the Irish are less concerned with doing their job properly, they just handle themselves differently to the Brits.

London is great. But if you dont get it, it is not the end of the world

Even as an undergrad you will be headhunted on linkedin.

BTW if you want advice on SIG, PM me

College staff? LOL. Except in rare circumstances, they haven't a bean. And I've met too many. These people study micro theories and produce papers based/or not on some statistical method. If i asked them about their knowledge on any micro or macro event that's current or future....forget it.

Being a Trader is not easy. There are many types but, to generalize, it's the same as excelling in any field, Sports, music, tech etc. It is not random luck. That's simply bullsh!t from people who have either not tried it or, failed very early.

newacc2015

ixus wrote: »

College staff? LOL. Except in rare circumstances, they haven't a bean. And I've met too many. These people study micro theories and produce papers based/or not on some statistical method. If i asked them about their knowledge on any micro or macro event that's current or future....forget it.

Being a Trader is not easy. There are many types but, to generalize, it's the same as excelling in any field, Sports, music, tech etc. It is not random luck. That's simply bullsh!t from people who have either not tried it or, failed very early.

I can see your point. But do you not think someone who has seen thousands of students go through their lectures and remained in contact with many of them. Who has spoken to some of the best traders and people in finance in the last 20/30 years knows a little more about trading than just a few theories in a book?

Nearly every asset class this year is doing amazingly, yet nearly every single investment banks is still slashing jobs. How healthy does a career in investment banking looking when even in year where everyone is winning, investment banking is cutting jobs?

A lot of people think actively managed funds are complete and utter BS. That investment banks dont know what they are doing when selling bonds and doing IPOs(completely underpricing or overpricing stocks, I know it isnt easy to price stocks completely but they arent often priced really incorrectly).The hedge fund industry is being destroyed this year. Look at all the money leaving hedge funds and being poured into actively managed funds. The future isnt looking too rosy for investment banking

You might regard the opinion of academics as BS regarding trading. But you can go days without reading a positive news story on bloomberg.com about the investment banking industry. Yet nearly everyday there is a story on the rise of ETF's, roboadvisors and even yesterday Bill Gross telling people to only buy real assets ie Gold and Real Estate. A career in investment banking is not that glamorous anymore

ixus

You have general knowledge but confuse your argument by issuing contradictory statments and poorly informed logic.

newacc2015 wrote: »

Nearly every asset class this year is doing amazingly

To start, you're plain wrong here. Sure, the US equity markets are up on the year (S&P, NQ, DOW approc 4-6%) and FTSE up 8% from the close of December. BUT, the US have only turned positive in the last couple of weeks. And, the FTSE surge has been due to a massive devaluation of its currency. In contrast, European markets are negative since December and in full fledged bear markets from their highs of last year. Dax, and Cac -4%. Euro Stoxx 50 -9%. Italian MIB -22%. The banking sector as a whole has been decimated in Europe. The Japanse Nikkei is -14%.

Commodity assets have had a terrible time. Oil might be up 19% from Dec but that's with Brent at $44 from $37 in Dec. The commodity bear market is not over.

The bond market has, without doubt, had massive asset price appreciation. BUT, this is with global central banks destroying yields in a bid to boost inflation and growth. It has had the affect of slashing the returns of Banks, Pension Funds and Insurance Companies.

newacc2015 wrote: »

......when even in year where everyone is winning,.......The hedge fund industry is being destroyed this yea...

Which is it? Is everyone winning due to every asset class doing anazingly or, are hedge funds getting destroyed? Surely this proves my point that not any monkey can be a successful Trader?

newacc2015 wrote: »

Look at all the money leaving hedge funds and being poured into actively managed funds. .

I assume you mean passive funds? There are two reasons. Hedge funds are underperforming with high costs and while costs of ETF's are really low now. This is a positive for investing, though ETF's pose their own problems.

There are two core reasons why IB's are cutting jobs. Regulation and volatility suppression. Regulation in the US and Europe prevent IB's from trading the way they used to, holding large inventory. They need to be leaner. Then, you have the volatility suppression by Central Banks. What you get is long periods of low volatility followed by short burst of huge volatility. This is a major negative for IB's who make their money from transaction flows. It is also lethal in terms of holding long positions as you have very little upside with large downside potential.

Central Banks have a lot to answer for in terms of their messing around with currency devaluations and bond yield suppression. It will end badly. Hence Gross saying own real assets.

In terms of becoming a successful Trader, it is extremely difficult. It's also very difficult to become a successful Pro Golfer. Many have tried and failed. Your lecturer's view doesn't reflect this. I'd love to know who he/she is.

Finally, on the IB front, you may note in my initial posting I mentioned few IB's. Most were companies that worked in various forms of Finance. as I said, IB employment is cyclical. I don't work in an IB. I have been a Trader, managing my own account for 7 years. Good & Bad. I know many guys who have tried and failed. I know guys who've performed well over an extended period of time and retired. I work with Traders who have been in the game longer than me and still perform well despite fluctuations in the market. What/who do you know apart from what your lecturer says?

For ever odd

The rhesus macaque monkey would be my choice too make it... Metacognition.