EIR - Telegraph Poles

ciaran012

Hello,

I am currently in the process of a new build and we took the initiative to ring Eir to get the house line connected. I went and created an account etc and the operator who set this up said KN would be in contact within 5 Working day to do an assessment on the site.

The KN Technician came to the site and said that the local station had the capacity for a new phone line and broadband and only is within a mile! He then recommended two telegraph poles due to the geometry of the site. He then said that EIR should be out within 3 weeks to put the poles in.

I receipt of this information got Cat6 cables ran by the electrician around the house to future proof it as it is also in an area to be upgraded to fiber.

Now, 3 weeks later I get a registered post letter saying that no services are available in my area for a phoneline or broadband! Note: I am literally surround by telegraph poles! One person just over has nearly a .5km of a driveway with telegraph poles going to full length!

The woman from Eir who sent me the letter then rang me the next day and outlined that they are only willing to offer me Fixed cellular Data which was the min they had to offer. I explained that the KN technician said that there was no issues with getting a line and she said that he had no authority to say that and it was solely their decision @ Eir.

After further arguing with her she said that it went before a panel of engineers and management etc and they decided the value of the telegraph poles & work involved vs what my new contract would be was not worth there time and they had a right to do this as they offered me the basic package which is required by law.

I offered to pay for the telegraph poles and she refused saying that the decision had been made, there was no appeal option.

I rang comreg and they said they had a right to do this.....by offering the FCD they had basically refused me but met there min requirements by law....

I am just looking to see if anyone has had the same issues? And was there a work around?
I couldn't find anything like this on the forums.

Thanks for reading

Ciaran.

ED E

The threshold for "reasonable effort" to supply fixed line services is €7000. If they estimate the works all in will cost them more than this they don't have to provide. Radio based links are a fallback option that they sometimes offer.

While you may be surrounded by poles it doesn't mean there's a spare pair available in the bundle so they may need a full cabling team out to run out to you which is where the expense may be.

The OpenEir Options:
Wait until the NBP covers you for FTTH (2022)
Try and get a local TD to push it (dunno how well that'll work today)
Find the local crew manager(Not KNN, OpenEir) and buy him a few pints

Alternatives:
Fixed wireless (Imagine, Nova etc etc)
4G (3 AYCE 20€/mo, fast in some areas)

ItHurtsWhenIP

I wonder has this change taken effect and are we going to start seeing a lot more of this carry on from open eir.

lucernarian

FYI - we haven't used telegraphs in a long number of years and any normal poles have only been for telephones since I think the 80s.

As for the above ComReg change - it's irrelevant. The application took place under the previous USO rules with a limit of €7000. The customer also has the option of funding the costs if the price goes above this.

OP - pursue this with ComReg further! Also CC the dept of communications to remind them of ComReg's statutory obligations as the regulator.

skywanderer

You need to contact local Eir technicians and the AEH manager and see what happens. There is no point talking to faceless people in call centres where it is a case of Computer says No.

BuzzG

Like skywanderer said contact the local eir engineer and find out the name of the Eir Area Engineering Manager then call or write to them and explain the situation. My preference would be to write by registered post so you have a tracable paper trail. A call is easily fobbed off but it is harder to fob off someone who makes contact by registered post. It also shows you mean business. Most of the time the eir people on the ground are sound and want to help existing and potential customers. Let us know how you get on. Good luck, hope it works out for you Ciaran! Sounds like you will have a great set-up inhouse once you get connected.

mass_debater

That €7000 USO has now been reduced to €1000
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057629135

ED E

mass_debater wrote: »

That €7000 USO has now been reduced to €1000
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057629135

Ahh jaysus, how'd I miss that one.

In that case NLP orders outside towns just won't happen anymore.

ItHurtsWhenIP

mass_debater wrote: »

That €7000 USO has now been reduced to €1000
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057629135

ED E wrote: »

Ahh jaysus, how'd I miss that one.

In that case NLP orders outside towns just won't happen anymore.

That's what I said above ... when I linked to that same thread!!!

<sniff> nobody reads my posts </sniff> :rolleyes:

mass_debater

ED E wrote: »

Ahh jaysus, how'd I miss that one.

In that case NLP orders outside towns just won't happen anymore.

They started pushing the limits of the USO a long time ago. Last year they started refusing to put poles on private land insisting the customer duct to the nearest roadside pole

ciaran012

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies,

lucernarian with regard to the telegraph poles, this is what the KN Technician recommended. The new build is in the country side down a very quite lane, there is no infrastructure for underground fiber on my road yet but they are on the main road about 1km away.

I spoke to Comreg regarding the 7000E USO and he said that did not apply because they had actually offered me a service through the Fixed Cellular Data phone with a dial up internet connection. They had met the min required by law and they are not required to do anything more than that seemly, basically he explained that they had the right to refuse me as a costumer but still offered me the most basic service...

I had applied a full month before this new decision for the USO so that didn't apply I don't think.

I applied thru Vodafone yesterday evening to see what happens if they will put the telegraph poles in I have another site visit on Tuesday with KN Technician! I presume this will still go thru Eir but I hope it will progress!

The other options with Imagine etc, They require Power line to the roof and a Cat5 cable I think which I presumed I didn't need after talking to the previous technician! The house is completely airtight now and sealed with a air tightness membrane to no more options for running cables etc.

I think my only option is with Carnsore after this if I cant get it hardwired in, I think their system is using coaxial cables to the dish which I have on the roof.

So much for the NBP Plan with these new rules!

Ciaran

ED E

ciaran012 wrote: »

I applied thru Vodafone yesterday evening to see what happens if they will put the telegraph poles in I have another site visit on Tuesday with KN Technician! I presume this will still go thru Eir but I hope it will progress!

Wasting everyones time with that.

mass_debater

KN work for Eir, you'll get the same answer and most likely the same engineer who will kick this one to touch without even visiting you. Sorry but you are SOL

ItHurtsWhenIP

ciaran012 wrote: »

...
The other options with Imagine etc, They require Power line to the roof and a Cat5 cable I think which I presumed I didn't need after talking to the previous technician! The house is completely airtight now and sealed with a air tightness membrane to no more options for running cables etc.

I think my only option is with Carnsore after this if I cant get it hardwired in, I think their system is using coaxial cables to the dish which I have on the roof.
...

Imagine only run a Cat5 cable to their antenna, it will also power the unit from a POE injector inside the house.

I don't think Carnsore do satellite broadband, so they would likely be the same as Imagine and run a Cat5 to their Antenna.

Have you ducting into your house from outside? If so could they run the cable out via that and up the side to the roof?

ciaran012

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

ciaran012 wrote: »

...
The other options with Imagine etc, They require Power line to the roof and a Cat5 cable I think which I presumed I didn't need after talking to the previous technician! The house is completely airtight now and sealed with a air tightness membrane to no more options for running cables etc.

I think my only option is with Carnsore after this if I cant get it hardwired in, I think their system is using coaxial cables to the dish which I have on the roof.
...

Imagine only run a Cat5 cable to their antenna, it will also power the unit from a POE injector inside the house.

I don't think Carnsore do satellite broadband, so they would likely be the same as Imagine and run a Cat5 to their Antenna.

Have you ducting into your house from outside? If so could they run the cable out via that and up the side to the roof?

Yes, I have supplied a Cat6 cable to the UPC box which is on the complete wrong side of the house it seems for the Carnsore antenna which requires it to be facing the mountain on the opposite side of the house. And yes you are correct it needs a Cat5 cable to run its antenna.

looks like I may get the drill out after all!

I am going to contact my local TD and I have sent a email off to the department of Communications to see what there response is.

Cheers for the help

Ciaran

ItHurtsWhenIP

ciaran012 wrote: »

Yes, I have supplied a Cat6 cable to the UPC box which is on the complete wrong side of the house it seems for the Carnsore antenna which requires it to be facing the mountain on the opposite side of the house. And yes you are correct it needs a Cat5 cable to run its antenna.

looks like I may get the drill out after all!

I am going to contact my local TD and I have sent a email off to the department of Communications to see what there response is.

Cheers for the help

Ciaran

How were you planning to get the telephone line into the house, if eir actually do end up providing you with one? Is it through where you have the UPC connection?

ciaran012

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

How were you planning to get the telephone line into the house, if eir actually do end up providing you with one? Is it through where you have the UPC connection?

Exactly, the Electrician said it's fine to use this method of cat5/6 etc, once the poles are supplied and fitted we would have ran ducting to them from the UPC box about 40ft away and pulled the line from there and the technican would call bk out and set up the phone-line etc.

lucernarian

ciaran012 wrote: »

Exactly, the Electrician said it's fine to use this method of cat5/6 etc, once the poles are supplied and fitted we would have ran ducting to them from the UPC box about 40ft away and pulled the line from there and the technican would call bk out and set up the phone-line etc.

Another update: the statutory instruments which gave effect to the reasonable requests for access regulation (decision d05/09 from ComReg) makes specific reference to using the prevailing technology and services that is offered as part of the PSTN. I think ComReg's opinion here should be scrutinised by legal opinion.

Aside from that, nothing should stop eircom from offering a phone line at the full cost of installation?

But the change of the USO regulation to a limit of 1000 for installs should be for another thread. It's not relevant here IMO

ED E

Unless he wants to spend a couple years on a legal action I dont think its of much benefit to the OP.

skywanderer

How about ordering ISDN and Fax surely this can't be delivered via Fixed Mobile? This would give him a copper pair then which would deliver broadband although from everything I've heard so far I'd say you'll be on ADSL2+ (if available and not vDSL).

ItHurtsWhenIP

skywanderer wrote: »

How about ordering ISDN and Fax surely this can't be delivered via Fixed Mobile? This would give him a copper pair then which would deliver broadband although from everything I've heard so far I'd say you'll be on ADSL2+ (if available and not vDSL).

That would be an eir business type order and likely incur the full cost of installation.

lucernarian

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

That would be an eir business type order and likely incur the full cost of installation.

On a related note: if this kind of situation can happen, what's to stop eircom providing *all* new line applications with fixed cellular technology if they are allowed to provide technology-neutral solutions and that they would always be cheaper than fixed lines if even one pole had to be erected? For businesses or for homes?

ItHurtsWhenIP

lucernarian wrote: »

On a related note: if this kind of situation can happen, what's to stop eircom providing *all* new line applications with fixed cellular technology if they are allowed to provide technology-neutral solutions and that they would always be cheaper than fixed lines if even one pole had to be erected? For businesses or for homes?

With the reduction of the maximum cost under the new PSO from €7,000 to €1,000 - I think we will start seeing more of this.

ED E

lucernarian wrote: »

On a related note: if this kind of situation can happen, what's to stop eircom providing *all* new line applications with fixed cellular technology if they are allowed to provide technology-neutral solutions and that they would always be cheaper than fixed lines if even one pole had to be erected? For businesses or for homes?

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

With the reduction of the maximum cost under the new PSO from €7,000 to €1,000 - I think we will start seeing more of this.

We'll only see NLPs going through where an existing DP is in place from now on. Otherwise coppers out and itll be a case of waiting for FTTH.

Thinking on a macro scale this make sense to push all the USO operators efforts into running FTTH and not waste time and money on obsolete plant but you can feel for those impacted by the change.

lucernarian

It seems like a dodgy reinterpretation of the law. All that changed was the price limit that eircom would pay, there weren't stories of eircom flat out refusing to provide phone lines if in theory customers could pay the difference over 7000 (or now 1000). But ComReg themselves said no one paid the difference over 7000 in at least 2011 and 2012 I think. It is true that new lines would have been historically low in that period however.

ciaran012

General update - another KN Technician for Vodafone came out yesterday afternoon and recommend 3 telegraph poles and said it will be up to Vodafone to agree to install them and eir will have to carry out the service. He said will be a couple weeks before I hear anything it will be interesting to see how this progresses from here.

ED E

If that were the case it would be Vodafone fronting the install costs and then recouping them from you, don't see that happening TBH.

ciaran012

Hi ED E, well something seems to be happening on the Vodafone side, they informed me that there was an issue with the main line coming up to the site with damage which is under the ground, they informed me that the installation had been pushed out till the 20 sept until Eir had fixed the problem and that the installation was still progressing from there side at least.