Not-your-average noise complaint issue

LegacyUser

Am keeping this short initially - can develop the story with more info as needed but don't want to turn people off reading with a rant!


Hi all

Looking for a bit of advice on a not-your-average noise complaint issue.

There's us and the man next door.

Man next door owns his home. Lives alone and is elderly. I believe he is ex-priest. He's very nice but doesn't appear to have any family or friends. In the 5 years we have rented here he has never had a single person come or go (that I have seen, of course) He is very polite and friendly.

We are a professional couple. We are quiet – don’t play loud music, have never had any visitors to the house, never had a party. We are in our late 20s and have been renting this property for the past 5 years

The man approached me a few weeks ago to tell me about his health and that he has high blood pressure. The sound proofing between our houses isn't great and he said that sometimes he can hear me preparing dinner or putting my plates back into the press or closing the drawers. They do bang a bit in fairness. He asked if we could be mindful when closing the presses and we agreed, obviously.

After the conversation I placed our blender and food processor on top of cushioned towels to minimise noise. I placed the chopping board on a towel before using. I got material strips for the press doors to keep the noise down.

I called in to talk to him last night and ask how things were and he told me that he can still hear the noises. Noise is reduced but it's still a lot for him to cope with. Says doc is even talking about increasing his medication. He says he can hear the TV or radio when it’s on and can hear cutlery being taken out of the drawer.

There's no arguing between us - I think he kind of understands there isn't much we can do. He comments himself about the poor sound proofing. We do hear him hoovering from time to time in fairness and can hear the TV of the person on the other side of us, but again none of these noises are tremendous.
I don't want to go to the landlord about the issue as I suppose I'm paranoid that the landlord will think that we have to be making more noise than I'm claiming and our review is due in the coming months.

What's the best course of action here? I'm not willing to move out of a perfect place because of this.

Thanks

Merkin

I really think you have been incredibly reasonable and met him MORE than halfway. Any chance he lived in a silent order during his time in the clergy?! Because while the soundproofing doesn't sound adequate, the noise that is being generated is not at all unreasonable. If you've a good relationship with him I sincerely doubt he'll approach your landlord given that you're actually really quiet! I really wouldn't worry.

woodchuck

I agree that you've gone above and beyond to do what you can for him (more than most people would!).

To be blunt, it's his problem, not yours. If the noise is bothering him that much, he could look into sound proofing his house. What more could you possibly do yourselves?

Ryan Mac Sweeney

Hi there
I have read your post. My advice to you is to maybe sound proof your home. Also contact your landlord and see if there is anything he can do.

intheclouds

What about soundproofing the shared walls?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Ryan Mac Sweeney wrote: »

Hi there
I have read your post. My advice to you is to maybe sound proof your home. Also contact your landlord and see if there is anything he can do.

Why would they fork out to soundproof an apartment that isn't theirs to solve a problem they don't have? You've done your bit op, if he wants to soundprood let him off.

bee06

Maybe I'm completely wrong on this but I don't understand how some background noise could be affecting his health so much. It doesn't sound like you are making loud, sudden noises or keeping him up half the night. How does he cope when he has to go outside?

bonyn

I feel for the guy. I live alone because i cant stand noise of other people like doors closing, toilets flushing, footsteps.
Sounds like this guy has to endure such noises despite having his own place. Old people are often unable to block out background noise and can be frustrated by it

Might be worth mentioning it to your landlord. As for the old guy, suppose it's his own issue but I'd recommend counselling over medication.. possibly move somewhere quieter

blairbear

Hearing a couple of plates banging in an adjacent house is NOT going to affect his blood pressure. That is just ludicrous.

Things like being overweight, smoking, diabetes, alcohol consumption, a sedentary lifestyle, and genetic predisposition/hereditary factors will affect it. There's no proof that stress alone causes high blood pressure, in the long term.

It is emotional blackmail for him to be telling you about his health issues and attributing a very acceptable amount of the unavoidable noises of daily living to a possible increase in medication.

If at all feasible, don't engage with him any further.

Edited to add; I don't mean to sound harsh; he is probably a very nice elderly gentleman. But you can't be fearful of/feel guilty about even making your dinner in your home!

LegacyUser

Hi all

Thanks for the replies so far.

Just to point out - nobody has mentioned this but we don't drink alcohol at all either so it's not a case of us being louder than we think.

Merkin - there is a good chance that he was in a silent order. I don't know a huge amount about him to be honest. You are right - we are being very reasonable with him.

woodchuck, Ryan Mac Sweeney & intheclouds - We will think about mentioning it to the landlord. I don't think that he will care too much though, to be honest. Soundproofing a wall is expensive enough and he may think he is just looking for something to complain about for the sake of it because of a minor issue they had with each other last year when trying to carry out other repairs. He might be right too - I just don't know. (after all, he would know the neighbour longer than us)

Which brings me to bee06's point - I don't know how all of this could be affecting him so much either and I don't want to accuse him of being 'moany for the sake of it' but then on the other hand myself and my OH discussed the situation last night and agreed we are very routine in our daily life and over the past 5 yrs have been doing the same thing. Surely if there was an issue he would have called in before now? Could it be that he is lonely and just wants some attention? He's been to the doc and just wants to tell someone about it? Whether he's attention seeking or not is impossible for me to tell and even less so for anyone here to tell me I know.

re: the point about him going outdoors - he obviously must do, but we hardly ever see him and he is fairly nervy when we do to be fair. He said he doesn't open his windows because of the noise from outside. I've never seen his windows open now that I come to think of it.

I guess when we are meeting the landlord we can inform him of this and the fact that we too sometimes hear the neighbours although I fear we would end up paying for the soundproofing via a rent increase and we do have other things we need to ask for.

If we owned the house without doubt we would soundproof it for him. I don't want to make an elderly man uncomfortable - whether the issue is real or in his head.

bee06

This is going to sound facetious but could you get him some ear plugs if he's so sensitive? He also must be very lucky to still have perfect hearing in his old age.

Fakediamond

Why can't he soundproof from his side? Sounds like you have been more than reasonable.

There may be other things going on for him, probably nothing to do with you, more to do with his health maybe?

RoYoBo

Could you recommend a white noise machine for/to him? I am sensitive to noise and even take mine on holiday with me (Dohm is the one I have). It's very soothing and is even supposed to have health benefits in and of itself (relaxation etc). A mechanical machine (vs recorded white noise) is deemed to work better.

It won't totally mask noise but isn't as uncomfortable or intrusive as ear plugs. It just seems to have a distancing effect on unwanted noise. I imagine that being a loner and on his own, once he hears any sound, he probably focuses on it and cannot then ignore it - perhaps even building it up to be more than what it is. The white noise puts it back into the background where it belongs.

LynnGrace

OP, I would say that you have been more than reasonable. By all means, mention it in passing to the landlord, but I would leave it at that. I certainly wouldn't be getting into discussions about soundproofing. As you said, there are other things that you want sorted with the landlord, that are far more necessary.

He could have extremely noisy neighbours, but he doesn't. And I don't mean that in a harsh way towards him. I also think that your landlord realises he has very good tenants, so I wouldn't worry on that score.

I really don't think there is anything more that you can do.
All the best.

zoobizoo

Call into him again and while you are in there, have your partner blend, and open and close some drawers and see how it sounds to you.

There is a reasonable noise people living beside other people expect to hear. That is life.

ManOfMystery

Asides from soundproofing the wall or advising ear plugs, I don't see what else you can do.

I have actually had to deal with some tenants in a house I own this week due to complaints from their neighbour about noise levels. Having travelled there expecting to have to start giving out to them, I found that the neighbours were actually over-reacting and the noise levels were normal.

In a semi-detached house (which I assume is what you're in), habitants have to accept that there is going to be an increased noise level over a detached house, and that there is an acceptable noise level which will be noticeable in daily living - doors opening and closing, audible conversations, feet going up stairs, and so on.

As long as you're not slamming doors, shouting or going beyond that acceptable noise level, then I think you're doing enough as it is.

blacklilly

blairbear wrote: »

Hearing a couple of plates banging in an adjacent house is NOT going to affect his blood pressure. That is just ludicrous.

Things like being overweight, smoking, diabetes, alcohol consumption, a sedentary lifestyle, and genetic predisposition/hereditary factors will affect it. There's no proof that stress alone causes high blood pressure, in the long term.

It is emotional blackmail for him to be telling you about his health issues and attributing a very acceptable amount of the unavoidable noises of daily living to a possible increase in medication.

If at all feasible, don't engage with him any further.

Edited to add; I don't mean to sound harsh; he is probably a very nice elderly gentleman. But you can't be fearful of/feel guilty about even making your dinner in your home!

I think your post is quite harsh.

Elderly people can be very sensitive to normal noise and it can cause them a lot of trouble. OP I had a similar experience a few years ago, only the elderly man I was dealing with began to get very irritated towards the end. I do believe his complaint was bona fide in that the normal level of noise emanating from my place was troubling him but was but there was nothing more that I could do.
Whilst I don't think you should be going to any further lengths to minimise the noise from your place.
I just find it quite distasteful when others suggest to completely ignore his complaint and suggest it is emotional blackmail,

Del2005

Ryan Mac Sweeney wrote: »

Hi there
I have read your post. My advice to you is to maybe sound proof your home. Also contact your landlord and see if there is anything he can do.

It's very expensive to soundproof an existing building and never works in the end, noise will still pass to the other house. The only way to soundproof is during construction and that was never a priority.

Lollipops23

If he doesn't even open his windows due to the "noise" outside I think he may have a bigger problem tbh. It's no wonder his blood pressure is spiking if perfectly normal stuff gets him upset.

You've been terribly accomodating, more than he'd have any right to expect quite frankly. Continue as normal for now, and keep him onside as much as possible.

DoozerT6

OP I live in an apartment where the soundproofing is non-existent. I live next door to a family with young kids and I constantly hear them rattling cutlery - so much so that I genuinely thought at one stage that they were doing a nixer washing dishes for a restaurant or something. The sound of delph and cutlery being rattled around on their draining board is very audible and bothers me intensely too - think of it as Chinese water torture you think nothing of it when you hear someone drop a spoon into a bowl the first time, but then it happens over and over and over and over, and also the baby of the family seems to just bash his metal spoon against his ceramic bowl as a matter of course during mealtimes. Then you start to fixate on it, no matter how much you tell yourself not to, and it drives you nuts. BUT, the problem is with the soundproofing between my apartment and theirs, not with the noise level itself. I know that. Short of using plastic cutlery and paper plates, there's pretty much nothing they can do. I did think at one stage about soundproofing our adjoining wall, but my whole kitchen would have to come down, and it just seemed like a whole lot of effort for something, while very annoying to me, doesn't keep me awake at night or impinge on my quality of living. It just annoys me. Lol I can actually hear them now. I also live alone, so unless the tv is on, my apartment is fairly quiet.

Long anecdote short, some things bother people (like me, and your neighbour) more than they would bother others. Maybe he has misophonia? I really don't think you can do any more than you are doing if your noise level is genuinely at a normal level, and you sound like you have been very understanding and accommodating. BUT I can see where your neighbour is coming from too, being in the same situation - he lives alone, his home is probably pretty quiet, and it's amazing how easily 'sharp' sounds like that can travel very well through walls and become annoying if they are frequent. If he owns the house he's living in, I think the onus is on him to soundproof the adjoining wall himself, unless you have a very understanding landlord who would think it was a good investment in his own property to do it. I wonder if your neighbour would be eligible for a grant of some sort to help with costs if he was thinking about it?...

LegacyUser

Thanks again for replies.

Fakediamond - I don't know why he wouldn't sound proof his own side. Maybe he can't afford to or maybe he wanted to try saying it to us first to see if we could reduce the noise a bit, I really don't know. I suppose we will see where he goes from here.

RoYoBo your suggestion of a white noise machine sounds good. I do think suggesting earplugs might not be the right thing to do - he can't be expected to go around his home wearing ear plugs all the time because of noise.

Thanks LynnGrace I think you are right that there is nothing more we can do here.

zoobizoo - when I said I called into him that was maybe a little misleading. I called to his door and we spoke there. He is quite a nervous character - takes him a long time to open the door and when he does it opens a crack and he pokes his head out. I wouldn't ask if I could come in as I think that would make him very uncomfortable.

Man Of Mystery - we are in a terraced house actually. We do hear noise from both sides, but I was looking at the houses yesterday from across the street - the positioning of the electricity boxes, the door handles, the windows (I know - giving this a lot of time) and I think that I've worked out that 'our' kitchen would be against the wall where his stairs are. So he's even further away from the noise than I first thought. I don't want to sound rude - but unless he's sitting on the stairs, how could he hear our presses banging.

DoozerT6 - I take your point completely too but that was another thing I was thinking only yesterday. We are not a restaurant. We are only in the kitchen for a maximum of 2 hours (not all at once) a day. If we were in there all day or if we had kids banging or a dog barking I could see how that would be grating but it's very minimal noise.

I think you are right Lollipops23 - there might be a bigger issue at play here.

Thank you to everyone who gave their input. I wanted to get a cross-section of opinions becauase I wanted to make sure I was seeing the full picture and taking everything into consideration.

mmooney1983

Don't forget he may have a mental illness e.g. schizophrenia, most symptoms may be well controlled on medication but frequently people have residual auditory hallucinations often in the form of noises, hearing the neighbours, rustling in the attic etc
People with dementia often hear noises 'running in the hallways' etc that gets them really worked up

Rekop dog

Sounds like he's fortunate to have such a considerate neighbours. You've given him more than enough thought, almost to a point of threading on eggshells in your home in fear of upsetting him.

Imagine if he was living next to a couple with young children, the noise level would be infinitely louder so he should do whatever pious individuals do such as count his blessings or thank god that he has it this good. I'd imagine it's probably guilt from his unspeakable past actions that's eating away at him more than anything.

SB_Part2

mmooney1983 wrote: »

Don't forget he may have a mental illness e.g. schizophrenia, most symptoms may be well controlled on medication but frequently people have residual auditory hallucinations often in the form of noises, hearing the neighbours, rustling in the attic etc
People with dementia often hear noises 'running in the hallways' etc that gets them really worked up

Well that escalated quickly. :eek:

Ursus Horribilis

Rekop dog wrote: »

... I'd imagine it's probably guilt from his unspeakable past actions that's eating away at him more than anything.

Not to mention this :eek:

Some people are more sensitive to noise than others though. Having said that, it looks like this old man has other issues and has fixated on the noise coming from your house for some reason. Perhaps because his world has become so small. I think on balance you'd be better off not engaging too deeply with him because if he's irrational at all, you'll be asking for trouble.

jimmycrackcorm

Op. You could consider something else. Maybe he is very lonely and is trying to find an excuse to talk to you. You've already mentioned not seeing him not have any visitors and it's clear you're very considerate neighbours.

Noise or not, could you invite him in for an odd meal?

mmooney1983

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Well that escalated quickly. :eek:

I'm actually serious!
Just something to bear in mind. 1% of the population has a psychotic illness and auditory hallucinations are extremely common. Commonly socially withdrawal and isolation are part of the presentation.
In which case a white noise machine would NOT be advisable.
But if it's just a regular narky neighbour honestly I wouldn't go stressing about it.

RoYoBo

mmooney1983 wrote: »

I'm actually serious!
Just something to bear in mind. 1% of the population has a psychotic illness and auditory hallucinations are extremely common. Commonly socially withdrawal and isolation are part of the presentation.
In which case a white noise machine would NOT be advisable.
But if it's just a regular narky neighbour honestly I wouldn't go stressing about it.

From what the OP has reported, his/her neighbour is not experiencing auditory hallucinations that would indicate anything remotely psychotic. Instead, he has a heightened awareness of actual normal levels of noise - putting dishes away and opening/closing press doors.

The OP is doing his/her best to ameliorate the situation. As others have suggested, being friendly and kind is likely to offer the best all round solution without venturing into any kind of medical diagnosis. He is much more likely to simply be a lonely old man (perhaps a bit crotchety) than a person suffering from psychosis.

faceman

I stopped reading the posts have way through as I felt many miss the point here so apologies if this has been said since.

I hope that if I, or any of you fine people, become old and I'll devoid of any family to take care of you there won't be a thread on boards about it.

We know very little about this elderly gentleman. But we know a few things, he's elderly, he's unwell and he has no family that visit. From the look of it the only person he can talk to is his GP. What a sad and upsetting place to be during the final years of your life.

OP you have been very reasonable and friendly in this situation, I only wish there were more people like you. This gentleman isn't going to report you to any LL. He was reaching out to you from one human being to another. The fact you engage with him is some level of comfort to him.

The only advice I can offer is to keep an eye out for him. You are unfortunately the closest people to him as you live next door. If you don't see him for a couple of days don't be afraid to knock on his door to see if he's ok.

As for the rest of you, give your grandmothers and grandfathers a call, ask them how they are and tell them you love them! Ireland is not a great country to grow old in!

Rekop dog

faceman wrote: »

I stopped reading the posts have way through as I felt many miss the point here so apologies if this has been said since.

I hope that if I, or any of you fine people, become old and I'll devoid of any family to take care of you there won't be a thread on boards about it.

We know very little about this elderly gentleman. But we know a few things, he's elderly, he's unwell and he has no family that visit. From the look of it the only person he can talk to is his GP. What a sad and upsetting place to be during the final years of your life.

OP you have been very reasonable and friendly in this situation, I only wish there were more people like you. This gentleman isn't going to report you to any LL. He was reaching out to you from one human being to another. The fact you engage with him is some level of comfort to him.

The only advice I can offer is to keep an eye out for him. You are unfortunately the closest people to him as you live next door. If you don't see him for a couple of days don't be afraid to knock on his door to see if he's ok.

As for the rest of you, give your grandmothers and grandfathers a call, ask them how they are and tell them you love them! Ireland is not a great country to grow old in!

He chose a life of solitude to pursue and preach very delusional beliefs, so brought this plight upon himself. He's being absolutely unreasonable with regards to the sound issue. Calling him a gentleman is completely disingenuous, you know nothing to prove that, we know a lot more to prove the opposite.

faceman

Rekop dog wrote: »

He chose a life of solitude to pursue and preach very delusional beliefs, so brought this plight upon himself. He's being absolutely unreasonable with regards to the sound issue. Calling him a gentleman is completely disingenuous, you know nothing to prove that, we know a lot more to prove the opposite.

So because he chose a life that you disagree with that he should suffer as a member of the elderly?

Shame on you sir and your bigoted views.

Merkin

Rekop dog wrote: »

He chose a life of solitude to pursue and preach very delusional beliefs, so brought this plight upon himself. He's being absolutely unreasonable with regards to the sound issue. Calling him a gentleman is completely disingenuous, you know nothing to prove that, we know a lot more to prove the opposite.

Take your prejudices somewhere else. This post is of no use to the OP and has absolutely nothing to add to the thread. A number of your posts just teeter on the edge of being actioned so you can consider this a warning. Any more unhelpful posts and you'll earn yourself a card.

the_pen_turner

Rekop dog wrote: »

He chose a life of solitude to pursue and preach very delusional beliefs, so brought this plight upon himself. He's being absolutely unreasonable with regards to the sound issue. Calling him a gentleman is completely disingenuous, you know nothing to prove that, we know a lot more to prove the opposite.

i dot think his profession has anything to do with this, at least not directly. maybe if he had chosen a different path he might have a family and not be so reclusive.

there is a man down the road from me. in the last 25 years I have only met him twice. both funerals. a friend of mine says he meets him 3 times a week but it is always at night or ungodly hours of the morning.

just because you don't see him out doesn't mean he isn't out



op you can get little foam or gel pads that you put on the back of the doors and drawers to stop them making noise. they are very cheap (only a few euro for 100) . this might stop that part. I don't think I would go any farther to change your life. you seem to be only doing normal activities and normal times

rondog

Just a point about the soundproofing.
There are different noises ie noises like voices that sound proofing will be effective against.Noises that transmit through a medium such as a wall ie vibrations,banging wont be stopped by soundproofing.

Banging of a press will travel through the medium and will be heard next door.

We had very noisy neighbours,5 kids that live next door to us and the noise was shocking.We got sound proofing and its great for stopping their screams and talking but useless against footfall,doors being closed and that kind of thing.
Typical,just as the kids quieten down over the years the clowns go out and get a dog and that's a whole different story.They are a nightmare!!

Parchment

he needs to realise there will be an amount of "normal" noise when living next to someone.

you need to live your lives.

you have done more than enough.