Financing an adoption

greycan

Hi

Myself and my partner are heading down the route of adopting and the USA seems to be the country we're hoping to adopt from.

Obviously we know it is one of the most (if not THE most) expensive routes but ultimately we feel that it is the best fit for us for a number of reasons. We're saving money at the moment and should have enough in a few years to cover everything but I'm wondering what might happen if we get matched before we have enough money to cover the costs involved.

Can we borrow money to cover the costs or is this frowned upon/even possible? Do banks/credit unions even do this?

Thanks in advance!

Arbie

greycan wrote: »

Hi

Myself and my partner are heading down the route of adopting and the USA seems to be the country we're hoping to adopt from.

Obviously we know it is one of the most (if not THE most) expensive routes but ultimately we feel that it is the best fit for us for a number of reasons. We're saving money at the moment and should have enough in a few years to cover everything but I'm wondering what might happen if we get matched before we have enough money to cover the costs involved.

Can we borrow money to cover the costs or is this frowned upon/even possible? Do banks/credit unions even do this?

Thanks in advance!

We're beginning to look at adoption in the USA too. How much is it generally expected to cost?

greycan

Arbie wrote: »

We're beginning to look at adoption in the USA too. How much is it generally expected to cost?

Tis pricey, brace yourself... Approx €50,000 for the USA programme fees and then another €6,500 for the common programme fee. It's pretty hard to find any info online about it because ARC adoption has been shut down but I found a document which might give you an idea. I can't post the link as I'm new but if you google "Arc Adoption Limited, AARC USA Programme Fees" it should be the first link. Obviously bear in mind that it's two years out of date but it should give you an idea.

I'm getting really frustrated with finding any information online about the various country programmes - none of the websites I've found are recently updated and the AAI website is pretty crap too. They actually have too much information up there most of which should be archived.

How far along in the process are you?

Arbie

greycan wrote: »

Tis pricey, brace yourself... Approx €50,000 for the USA programme fees and then another €6,500 for the common programme fee. It's pretty hard to find any info online about it because ARC adoption has been shut down but I found a document which might give you an idea. I can't post the link as I'm new but if you google "Arc Adoption Limited, AARC USA Programme Fees" it should be the first link. Obviously bear in mind that it's two years out of date but it should give you an idea.

I'm getting really frustrated with finding any information online about the various country programmes - none of the websites I've found are recently updated and the AAI website is pretty crap too. They actually have too much information up there most of which should be archived.

How far along in the process are you?

We are just beginning to look into it now. It's very difficult to find clear information online.

ABC101

Some adoption agencies in USA are commanding fees up to 65K USD, and if there are any additional costs they can quickly be added on, for example traveling distance, babies born at 2 am etc

Some US agencies require you to travel and remain in the US whilst the child clears a certain minimum age, (specified in Irish constitution) which I think is 6 weeks.

So you will have to budget for traveling to USA, living there for up to 90 days. Arrange time off from your employer (possible loss of earnings/ pension contributions), continue to pay Irish living expenses i.e. mortgage on your home and pay cost of living expenses in USA.

Other US agencies don't require this, once you agree to the referral and all parties agree you can be matched, the child is placed in foster care (which has to be paid for etc) and then you fly over when the child is 6 weeks or 3 months old, complete paperwork and then return to Ireland with Article 17 certificate+ child.

Worst case scenario... you are looking at around 65K USD, + cost of living in USA for up to 3 months + continuing to pay down Irish expenses (i.e. mortgage, phone bills, gas meter + electricity meter etc) and if your Irish employer decides not to pay you (because you have not turned up to work) then you are also looking at loss of earnings.

If you are a Irish civil servant, then you require to follow a notification procedure with your employer, which is quiet precise. Otherwise penalties may be imposed.

The Euro has fallen in value against the dollar which has not helped, used to be 1.34 now down to 1.11, and of course you won't get 1.11 in a bank, they might give you 1.09 or so, and then a fee etc.

You can look up the adoption discussion forum on rollercoaster.ie for more info, contact Helping Hands mediation agency in Cork, talk to your social worker in Tusla who specialise in ICA.

I believe adopting from the far east is much easier, as there is normally no birth mother involved, but if I'm not sure. Best speak to the experts.

All above is a rough outline, not written in stone and some costs may not be particularly relevant to your circumstances.

Unless you are able to save the guts of 100,000 euro, you may require to take out a loan against your house. But for many ICA from USA is not an option, unless you are fairly well off.

Adoption is supposed to be a happy experience, becoming a parent etc, but it really is only an option for wealthy people, or people who have access to money etc

There is growing realization that the Hague Convention, whilst good on paper, has appeared to have a negative effect on ICA numbers, due to bureaucracy, over regulation and high costs. This has led to a drop in numbers going through the ICA process, and has led to mediation agencies closing down one being Arc Adoption in Rathfarnham. They closed when Dr James Reilly was advised to cut funding to these agencies. Which he did, and various applicants in the process lost some money.

kathy finn

Have you started the process with AAI to be passed as Adopters here first, that can take years and they do look into your finances etc.
Until you are passed here you can not adopt.

ABC101

kathy finn wrote: »

Have you started the process with AAI to be passed as Adopters here first, that can take years and they do look into your finances etc.
Until you are passed here you can not adopt.

Close family member in the process.

It can take about 3 years to obtain a Declaration of Eligibility from the Adoption Authority. However I believe some areas of Ireland it may take up to 5 years or more to obtain the certificate.

Certificate only lasts 2 +1 years, 3 years in total.

The process involves a forensic investigation into your entire life, relationships etc. A lot of paperwork has to be obtained every year, Garda clearance certs, tax certificates, foreign police clearance certs (if applicable), financial statements, medical certs, employer statements, witness statements from friends etc.

Be aware that the acceptable standard is very narrow. If you smoke you will be declared ineligible, heavy drinker ineligible, BMI index too high ineligible, age too high ineligible (50 would be a max limit), no fire blanket in the home ineligible, no fire extinguisher ineligible, not enough family support ineligible, if you admit you intend to use the facilities of a creche, ineligible, court convictions (depends) but you probably be declared ineligible, recreational drug user (roll of cannabis at weekend etc ) ineligible, corporal punishment (for discipline as distinct from abuse) ineligible.

You have to fit the ideal politically correct standard, because if you fall outside the goalposts of what is deemed "acceptable standard" then your chances of obtaining a DoE is most unlikely.

_Brian

ABC101 wrote: »

Close family member in the process.

It can take about 3 years to obtain a Declaration of Eligibility from the Adoption Authority. However I believe some areas of Ireland it may take up to 5 years or more to obtain the certificate.

Certificate only lasts 2 +1 years, 3 years in total.

The process involves a forensic investigation into your entire life, relationships etc. A lot of paperwork has to be obtained every year, Garda clearance certs, tax certificates, foreign police clearance certs (if applicable), financial statements, medical certs, employer statements, witness statements from friends etc.

Be aware that the acceptable standard is very narrow. If you smoke you will be declared ineligible, heavy drinker ineligible, BMI index too high ineligible, age too high ineligible (50 would be a max limit), no fire blanket in the home ineligible, no fire extinguisher ineligible, not enough family support ineligible, if you admit you intend to use the facilities of a creche, ineligible, court convictions (depends) but you probably be declared ineligible, recreational drug user (roll of cannabis at weekend etc ) ineligible, corporal punishment (for discipline as distinct from abuse) ineligible.

You have to fit the ideal politically correct standard, because if you fall outside the goalposts of what is deemed "acceptable standard" then your chances of obtaining a DoE is most unlikely.

We went through the assessment twice and no word of fire safety stuff and a crèche was no issue either.
I agree it's very rigorous but then if I were responsible for choosing parents for a child id set the bar very high too. Many of the children have already have had problems and some will need extra supports so it's only sensible to match them with what are likely to be successful parents.

Yes it's slow, but you don't get to know a couple in a single meeting, coupled with the lack of resources available.

It's not easy, it's not supposed to be easy but you don't need to be superhuman to pass either, just committed to the process and honest.

ABC101

A fire extinguisher + fire blanket can be obtain for less than 100 euro easily, so not such a big issue.

You are of course correct in stating that good quality adoptive parent(s) should be approved.

But it can also be said that over regulation of any area can and does lead to suffocation / reduced activity within that particular domain whether it be banking, mortgage approval or adoption.

Since Ireland implemented The Hague Convention adoption numbers have plummeted.

Adoption was not always this expensive / time consuming / highly regulated yet historically adoption in Ireland has been extremely successful with very positive results for the children.

Well done to you for giving two children a home, if I may say so.