Maxammon treated grain

pedigree 6

I was at a demonstration today of treating grain with maxammon and then they were showing a samco bagpress for storing the grain outside.
Have to say was impressed.

Some of the take home messages were treating the grain with maxammon were-

1) an increase of protein % e.g barley 12% untreated to 17% treated.
2) an increase of ph levels e.g wheat 8.8 barley 8.6 maize 8.7 oats 8.7
So no need for rumen buffer associated with feeding grains.
3) easier storage just treat the grain and seal with a plastic sheet for 2 weeks and take sheet off to let air in and it's preserved.

Interested to know of anyone here feeding maxammon treated grain and how they are getting on.
With cereals at good value. It could take a good wedge off meal costs and still have the benefits.

Dawggone

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I was at a demonstration today of treating grain with maxammon and then they were showing a samco bagpress for storing the grain outside.
Have to say was impressed.

Some of the take home messages were treating the grain with maxammon were-

1) an increase of protein % e.g barley 12% untreated to 17% treated.
2) an increase of ph levels e.g wheat 8.8 barley 8.6 maize 8.7 oats 8.7
So no need for rumen buffer associated with feeding grains.
3) easier storage just treat the grain and seal with a plastic sheet for 2 weeks and take sheet off to let air in and it's preserved.

Interested to know of anyone here feeding maxammon treated grain and how they are getting on.
With cereals at good value. It could take a good wedge off meal costs and still have the benefits.

I'm being canvassed to use Maxammon treatment here. I'm told it's €27/t and grains need to be under 18% moisture...

I can get grains treated with a similar urea based treatment *and* crimped for same money...

Explain the advantage. Nobody here can, they just quote how Irish grains jump in protein analysis...hmmm

pedigree 6

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm being canvassed to use Maxammon treatment here. I'm told it's €27/t and grains need to be under 18% moisture...

I can get grains treated with a similar urea based treatment *and* crimped for same money...

Explain the advantage. Nobody here can, they just quote how Irish grains jump in protein analysis...hmmm

I think it was developed out in Scotland.
Was told it would work to 20% moisture?
There was a former farm manager of LG's farm in Louth explaining the whole thing.
Basically saying used to recommend crimping and now this is way better.
The process afaik is urea plus added microbes.
Then you can feed away adlib and no problems.
I think the cost is e20? here.

I'd like to see more hard facts of people feeding cows or cattle here.
The farm today were feeding their cattle a wheat,barley, straw, maize mix and a bit of soya.
I think the cattle were wagyu's.

There is a few farmers at the back of the mountain feeding it. So might talk to them. There bringing out a balanced nut as well for parlour feeders.

Dawggone

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I think it was developed out in Scotland.
Was told it would work to 20% moisture?
There was a former farm manager of LG's farm in Louth explaining the whole thing.
Basically saying used to recommend crimping and now this is way better.
The process afaik is urea plus added microbes.
Then you can feed away adlib and no problems.
I think the cost is e20? here.

I'd like to see more hard facts of people feeding cows or cattle here.
The farm today were feeding their cattle a wheat,barley, straw, maize mix.
I think the cattle were wagyu's.

There is a few farmers at the back of the mountain feeding it. So might talk to them. There bringing out a balanced nut as well for parlour feeders.

Urea + enzymes + soya oil.

At the back of what mountain? I like to keep my back to the mountain!

Seriously though, I gave up on alchemy a few years back, and I don't believe in anything only science...that makes me a skeptic not a scientoligist...or an agnostic....or just a langer (as they say in Cork, boy!). .

ganmo

It's very easy to increase protein analysis when adding urea.

Bass Reeves

Most of these treatments that increase protein us ammonia. This is a strong alklai and it preserves the grain and it seems that it is unpalatable to vermin and when it is preserved you can just pull back the sheet over it and feed away. However 17% seems high to be getting the grain protein to. This has advantages over crimp in storage and extra P

However I take as a grain of salt feeding advantages, you are feeding an alkali which may have different rumen issues. 12%P for barley sounds a bit high I expect taht it would be back to 11%. There are a few of these ammonia treatments around there is one with gold in it name as well.

Another disadvantage is you are paying up front for a product that you may not need/use for 4-10 months. Remember as well you need low moisture grain so buying off the combine will not be possible. What will you pay for grain dried to 18% moisture. Will it cost 170/ton delivered. So 200+/ton treated including bag.

I expect that barley will cost less than 200/ton next winter jus add a bit of urea when feeding.

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

Bass Reeves wrote: »

However 17% seems high to be getting the grain protein to.

Remember as well you need low moisture grain so buying off the combine will not be possible. What will you pay for grain dried to 18% moisture.

I agree that 17% sounds on the high side, would be expecting a max of 14% myself.

The grain is coming off the combine at less than 18% from results I saw. No need for drying. The point of this treatment is you buy off the combine from a financial point of view.

Bass Reeves

ZETOR_IS_BETTER wrote: »

I agree that 17% sounds on the high side, would be expecting a max of 14% myself.

The grain is coming off the combine at less than 18% from results I saw. No need for drying. The point of this treatment is you buy off the combine from a financial point of view.

Can be hard to get grain off combine at 18% a lot (especially the way the weather this year is) comes off at 20ish% and maybe above.

blue5000

I did some 2 years ago, the enzyme converts the urea to ammonia, if grain is too dry it won't work either, all the urea will not be converted. If it's too damp, >20% it will heat.
I fed it to bulls before going on purchased bull ration to finish them. Protein I'd say is being exaggerated at 17%, nothing new from yer man there. 15% would be more like it. But 15% would be lots for finishing cattle anyway.
I kept mine outside under plastic, only vermin I saw in it were dead mice.
I think it cost €47 to treat it that year including rolling, urea could be a bit cheaper this year? I can't see why fertiliser urea wouldn't work, it's all supposed to be feed grade urea in EU.

trixi2011

Used it last year as part of a tmr for maiden heifers last winter as our silage quality was average enough. Got good growth rates and was very easy to keep. Very popular over here in scotland. Used caustic wheat for milking cows in the spring as it could be bought cheaply, serious feed cows milked really well off it

Midfield9

Its supposed to increase protein by 4.5% so it depends on the starting P of the grain. I suspect proteins could be lower than average in barley this year. I thought you could use higher moisture grain but it would have to be used alot quicker.

freedominacup

Very hard to beat crimped grain for convenience. Clean yard, tip loads, run through crimped into pit. Roll and cover. Open pit cut out what's needed for the day with shear grab and feed out. Minimum handling and no special equipment needed to store or feed. Soda grain is a grand feed but an awful lot of handling and work by comparison.

Dawggone

I crimp a few tons for cows...it's a good feed IF it begins as a good feed.

I'd find it hard to believe in a product that can 'magically' improve %pr...

DMAXMAN

i know someone who used it on rejected malting barley that they knew was 12% protein. they tested it a few times during the winter and only got a 14% protein feed

Bass Reeves

As far as I know you adjust the amount of ammonia to increase the protein. However this adds to the cost. You do not require as much to just preserve it.

blackdog1

Dawggone wrote:

I crimp a few tons for cows...it's a good feed IF it begins as a good feed.

Do likewise won't go away from it puts serious condition and shine cattle. I use a 25% maize mix with mine. cheap way to feed cattle during winter and highly digestible

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

I'd find it hard to believe in a product that can 'magically' improve %pr...

Isn't urea technically something in the order of 270% protein. Amazing what it can do to a feed analysis on a cp basis.

A neighbour who has been drying and storing grain for a long time always says he can take 20 tonnes of wet, ****e grain screen it thoroughly while drying it ( I have no knowledge of the process) and give you back 16-18 tonnes of lovely looking stuff with good bushel etc. It'll test fine but it will still be ****e. Won't feed well and performance will not be as expected. As dawg said quality needs to be right at the start.

We got a cheap enough lesson in this when we first bought a feeder. Got nicely turned over by a creamery manager. Luckily only on a smallish load. Grain is not just grain and protein crops can be very variable as well. Just ask any pig/poultry farmer.

yosemitesam1

They treat straw with urea the same way as this in africa and asia without the need for buying anything more than normal urea, dont see why the same couldn't be done here, the fao should have something on it.

Edit, http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w4988e/W4988E04.htm

Dawggone

blackdog1 wrote: »

Do likewise won't go away from it puts serious condition and shine cattle. I use a 25% maize mix with mine. cheap way to feed cattle during winter and highly digestible

We crimp maize and soya every year. Maize needs to be between 35 and 38% moisture. Soya usually around 20 to 24%.
Maize crimp is used to fortify forage maize when on grass. To fatten any sort of a yoke ad lib maize crimp and hay...


I also feed 60g/hd/day urea when not grazing. I use ordinary urea which is not food grade. Food grade urea is a brownish dusty product and is €880/ton.

ganmo

Dawggone wrote: »

I also feed 60g/hd/day urea when not grazing. I use ordinary urea which is not food grade. Food grade urea is a brownish dusty product and is €880/ton.

the feed grade urea I've seen was pure white in small bags

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

A neighbour who has been drying and storing grain for a long time always says he can take 20 tonnes of wet, ****e grain screen it thoroughly while drying it ( I have no knowledge of the process) and give you back 16-18 tonnes of lovely looking stuff with good bushel etc. It'll test fine but it will still be ****e. Won't feed well and performance will not be as expected. As dawg said quality needs to be right at the start.

We got a cheap enough lesson in this when we first bought a feeder. Got nicely turned over by a creamery manager. Luckily only on a smallish load. Grain is not just grain and protein crops can be very variable as well. Just ask any pig/poultry farmer.

On this, we store quite an amount of combinables and of a wet day etc will put screenings back through the cleaner as normally take stuff off combines so clean and dry. Will end up with about 100-120 tons of various crops that will make feed grade and sell it unassured to merchants which will make feed grade but be absolute chaff and husk. Will end up in ration just the same, I imagine most winter barley over there is the same this year. A better bet would be to get a list of ingredient with bushel and grain quality analysis rather than your given digits in a book.
No wonder dawg laughs about never meeting a poor ration sales man

freedominacup

Waffletraktor wrote: »

On this, we store quite an amount of combinables and of a wet day etc will put screenings back through the cleaner as normally take stuff off combines so clean and dry. Will end up with about 100-120 tons of various crops that will make feed grade and sell it unassured to merchants which will make feed grade but be absolute chaff and husk. Will end up in ration just the same, I imagine most winter barley over there is the same this year. A better bet would be to get a list of ingredient with bushel and grain quality analysis rather than your given digits in a book.
No wonder dawg laughs about never meeting a poor ration sales man

This is probably that wonder feed they list as wheatfeed.

mf240

freedominacup wrote: »

This is probably that wonder feed they list as wheatfeed.

Wheatfeed is the new name for pollard. Its whats left after they make flour ect.

You should read a few labels on some of the of the shelf dairy nuts that are being sold.

Malt sprouts oatfeed malt screenings ect. All could be listed collectively as dung.

grass

Just doing our costs on treating barley with maxammon.

We use a 23% ration as we are feeding beet and maize.
We have our own barley the moisture is between 19-23% so will need to dry it. Between transport to a drier and drying it cost is 15/ ton

Value of our own grain 120
Drying 15
Maxammon and crimper 40
minerals 18
Soya 68
Total 261

Anyone bought a 23% ration lately ??

Waffletraktor

grass wrote: »

Just doing our costs on treating barley with maxammon.

We use a 23% ration as we are feeding beet and maize.
We have our own barley the moisture is between 19-23% so will need to dry it. Between transport to a drier and drying it cost is 15/ ton

Value of our own grain 120
Drying 15
Maxammon and crimper 40
minerals 18
Soya 68
Total 261

Anyone bought a 23% ration lately ??

You don't necessarily need to dry grain just keep the tempature in mid-low single digits degree.

grass

I am told max is 21% moisture wont anything above this spoil the the grain all the grain is tipped in one shed there is plenty of it around the 20% but I know there is grain from lodged areas of our ground with higher moisture grain.

Waffletraktor

grass wrote: »

I am told max is 21% moisture wont anything above this spoil the the grain all the grain is tipped in one shed there is plenty of it around the 20% but I know there is grain from lodged areas of our ground with higher moisture grain.

You can keep grain up to mid twenties so long as you can get air blowing through it to keep it cool and humidity down, it's this more so than cool air that might do you in fear air with a higher humidity than the heap will raise moisture. Stores dry grain as it's hard to keep a pile of grain of it varies a lot in moisture but a drying floor and checking it with a probe every 4-5 days it's not an issue.
A pedestal or 3, tempature probe and a single phase fan would be needed, not helpful for this year now I guess but for future reference. You will loose what's called the angles share as you take moisture out as regards tonnage put in also.

Bass Reeves

grass wrote: »

Just doing our costs on treating barley with maxammon.

We use a 23% ration as we are feeding beet and maize.
We have our own barley the moisture is between 19-23% so will need to dry it. Between transport to a drier and drying it cost is 15/ ton

Value of our own grain 120
Drying 15
Maxammon and crimper 40
minerals 18
Soya 68
Total 261

Anyone bought a 23% ration lately ??

Not sure if there is much ssavings. It would depend on how good your barley is. If your barley is top notch then it may well be worth your while as lots of crap barley coming out of millers at present. Remember also you are funding up front. If you kept 40T of this you would have over 10k tied up. You also made no allowance for spoilage. Say 10K tied up for an average of 6 months and 60 day miller credit on top leaves you with 480 in interest if money is borrowed or 12 euro/ton. 5% spoilage would add 13/ton on to the cost. 20/ton would be a consevative figure for both combined.

blue5000

grass wrote: »

Just doing our costs on treating barley with maxammon.

We use a 23% ration as we are feeding beet and maize.
We have our own barley the moisture is between 19-23% so will need to dry it. Between transport to a drier and drying it cost is 15/ ton

Value of our own grain 120
Drying 15
Maxammon and crimper 40
minerals 18
Soya 68
Total 261

Anyone bought a 23% ration lately ??

Haven't bought any 23% just using straight rolled barley at €180 collected in half ton bag.

How many kgs of soya is in that? You have maybe 1200? kg there for €261. Between soya, minerals barley and maxammon and shrinkage. (261/1200)x1000=€217.50 a ton. That's not bad.

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

Haven't bought any 23% just using straight rolled barley at €180 collected in half ton bag.

How many kgs of soya is in that? You have maybe 1200? kg there for €261. Between soya, minerals barley and maxammon and shrinkage. (261/1200)x1000=€217.50 a ton. That's not bad.

I taught that Maxammon will only take Barley to about 14% . To reach 23%P using soya you would need about 30% soya in the ration. Not sure of the cost of soya at present but at 390/ton it equates to 117/ton that is assuming that Maxammon is bring barley to 14%P.

Assuming my figures are correct the cost would be

Barley at 120/ton costing 128 after drying after moisture weight reduction
Drying 15
Maxammon 40

So ton of treated barley @16% moisture 183/ton

Cost of ration

Barley 670 kgs= 122.6
Minerals 30 kgs=18
Soya 300kgs =117 euro

Total cost = 257/ton


I am not sure of the cost of soya at present

larthehar

Huge variations in the protein this year from talking to different lads.. the fella rolling mine had just come out of a yard that test 13% protein pretreatment.. the treatment adds 4% so knowing where you are starting is important.. sent mine off for the 1st time to test protein.. had always assumed a figure of 10% but will find out soon enough if i can save a fortune!

Bass Reeves

larthehar wrote: »

Huge variations in the protein this year from talking to different lads.. the fella rolling mine had just come out of a yard that test 13% protein pretreatment.. the treatment adds 4% so knowing where you are starting is important.. sent mine off for the 1st time to test protein.. had always assumed a figure of 10% but will find out soon enough if i can save a fortune!

AFAIK hi protein means low starch:eek:

grass

thanks for the replies, sent the grain to the coop it was cooking. pricing a 11me ration at the moment varying from 240-260/ ton

freedominacup

grass wrote: »

thanks for the replies, sent the grain to the coop it was cooking. pricing a 11me ration at the moment varying from 240-260/ ton

What ingredients? 11me isn't very high.

Mooooo

freedominacup wrote: »

What ingredients? 11me isn't very high.

Did someone here put up a ration calculator, where you could put in whatever ingredients and all the figures would come up, wasn't you by any chance freedom?

mf240

www.gpfeeds.co.uk/ration.htm

There ya go. Be warned its addictive you'll be going around like "rain man" reading feed labels

larthehar

Got the results back, 10.1% protein. For a calculator i use the pearson square. So using maxammon grain at 14.1% protein and soya bean meal at 49% protein.. that gives me a 17:1 ratio for a 16% meal with 1% minerals. All in €153/ton cost.
A huge amount to be said for the quality of your own grain.. hard to know what is in rations and nuts..

Bass Reeves

larthehar wrote: »

Got the results back, 10.1% protein. For a calculator i use the pearson square. So using maxammon grain at 14.1% protein and soya bean meal at 49% protein.. that gives me a 17:1 ratio for a 16% meal with 1% minerals. All in €153/ton cost.
A huge amount to be said for the quality of your own grain.. hard to know what is in rations and nuts..

Not sure if your sums are right. I presume that you are buying soya in small quanties ( less than 1/2 ton at the time) it will cost you 400-420/ton. to make a ton of ration you are putting 60kgs in the ration. That will cost you 24 euro/ton. From this your Maxammon treated grain is coming in at 137/ton. It would seem no cost for Maxammon and no drying cost. If the grain was 16% moisture at combine it is more than likely worth in excess of 140/ton anyway.

larthehar

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not sure if your sums are right. I presume that you are buying soya in small quanties ( less than 1/2 ton at the time) it will cost you 400-420/ton. to make a ton of ration you are putting 60kgs in the ration. That will cost you 24 euro/ton. From this your Maxammon treated grain is coming in at 137/ton. It would seem no cost for Maxammon and no drying cost. If the grain was 16% moisture at combine it is more than likely worth in excess of 140/ton anyway.

Soya; 48% protein; 370/ton bulk collected 1/2 mile away
Maxammon treated barley; 14.1% protein; COST 140/ton
No drying needed as was 16%cut, i do most of the cultivation myself and costed each step of the way including land opportunity cost. Value is a cost in my eyes as i have to replace that feed.
Minerals: €16/25kg bag or 640/ton

Feed ratio; 5.55% soya: 93.45% barley: 1% minerals
Cost ratio/ton; soya €20.53; barley €130.83; minerals €6.40
Total €157.76/ton @ 16% protein

They are my costs and will not be everyones costs.

Bass Reeves

larthehar wrote: »

Soya; 48% protein; 370/ton bulk collected 1/2 mile away
Maxammon treated barley; 14.1% protein; COST 140/ton
No drying needed as was 16%cut, i do most of the cultivation myself and costed each step of the way including land opportunity cost. Value is a cost in my eyes as i have to replace that feed.
Minerals: €16/25kg bag or 640/ton

Feed ratio; 5.55% soya: 93.45% barley: 1% minerals
Cost ratio/ton; soya €20.53; barley €130.83; minerals €6.40
Total €157.76/ton @ 16% protein

They are my costs and will not be everyones costs.

That is fair enough. For me to buy your barley off the combine(if we could get it this year as this quality barley is very scarce) would cost 140/ton and maybe a little with it. Barley at 20% moisture is around 130/ton.

AFAIK Maxammon costs about 40/ton so a tone of treated barey costs 180/ton. It would cost in the region of 200/ton. At that it would still be a cheap ration. However your costs are upfront and spoilage may be an issue. At the moment I can but a 13Me ration 14%P for 215/ton with 70 days credit, in a nut it will cost me 15/ton extra. There is no barley in it as any barley I see out of millers this year is rubbish

Your feed is excellant value at that price

larthehar

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That is fair enough. For me to buy your barley off the combine(if we could get it this year as this quality barley is very scarce) would cost 140/ton and maybe a little with it. Barley at 20% moisture is around 130/ton.

AFAIK Maxammon costs about 40/ton so a tone of treated barey costs 180/ton. It would cost in the region of 200/ton. At that it would still be a cheap ration. However your costs are upfront and spoilage may be an issue. At the moment I can but a 13Me ration 14%P for 215/ton with 70 days credit, in a nut it will cost me 15/ton extra. There is no barley in it as any barley I see out of millers this year is rubbish

Your feed is excellant value at that price

Your bang on.. 41/ton if you include your time loading etc.. i did sell a surplus 5 ton @ 135/ton off the combine..
You are also right on the quality of barley around.. an awful lot of dung being but through dryers and sold to the unsuspecting farmer..

I.l keep ya posted on the spoilage!

Is that ration Maize Meal based?

Bass Reeves

larthehar wrote: »

Your bang on.. 41/ton if you include your time loading etc.. i did sell a surplus 5 ton @ 135/ton off the combine..
You are also right on the quality of barley around.. an awful lot of dung being but through dryers and sold to the unsuspecting farmer..

I.l keep ya posted on the spoilage!

Is that ration Maize Meal based?

yes nearly 50% maize with about 15% wheat

MFdaveIreland

Hello folks, has anyone any experience of using this treatment on beans? And are you aware of any other similar products for treatments of beans? cheers

Bass Reeves

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

Hello folks, has anyone any experience of using this treatment on beans? And are you aware of any other similar products for treatments of beans? cheers

AFAIK you can crimp beans and peas when mixed with barley. You use an additive the one I saw was used on whole crop peas and barley it was supplied by agriking it is the same product You can ring email them and they should be able to let you know if it can be used on Beans.

http://www.agriking.com/about-us/contact-us

I imagine if you mix it with barley wheat or maize it would be ok as you will have the starch to preserve it.

MFdaveIreland

beans coming in at 40% starch 29% protein? what exactly does this treatment do to the chemical composition?

yosemitesam1

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

beans coming in at 40% starch 29% protein? what exactly does this treatment do to the chemical composition?

Would you be as well to cut them a bit on the wet side and crimp with propionic acid. The wetter grain would be more digestible

Dawggone

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Would you be as well to cut them a bit on the wet side and crimp with propionic acid. The wetter grain would be more digestible

18 to 20% moisture for crimping beans afaik.
Good feed but there's a max inclusion rate due to tannin levels, again afaik!

Someone here probably knows better than me.

Bass Reeves

Dawggone wrote: »

18 to 20% moisture for crimping beans afaik.
Good feed but there's a max inclusion rate due to tannin levels, again afaik!

Someone here probably knows better than me.

Doubt it said Croker