Coach vs Program Writer

LCD

Never confuse a coach with a program writer, also never pay for the former when you are receiving the latter.

Peterx

Not quite the 6 words but Hemingway might still have approved

mloc123

Short and to the point..

What should a coach offer above a weekly program writer?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

mloc123 wrote: »

What should a coach offer above a weekly program writer?

For me a coach IMO should be but not restricted to,

Know the athlete better than they know themselves
Know when to push and when to pull back
Tailor plan around the athletes life, work/kids can have a massive impact on training and not everyone can handle the same training load.
Understand strengths and weaknesses of the athlete and tailor approach to work on those weaknesses
Offer a voice and give an ear to listen when needed
Guide season plans, goal races and give structure to achieve those goals
Regular feedback, its a two way street
Provide accountability to the athlete

Of course all that is only possible if the athlete buys into the approach and gives regular feedback. Without regular and honest athlete feedback none of the above is really achievable.

Interested to hear views of other coaches or athletes being coached on what their expectations are.

peter kern

most people should talk about their prescriber and not their coach.


for a start if you never see your coach its not coaching. iam not saying one has to see a coach but if one dosnt see a coach the very least every 6 weeks its not coaching.( it could be video files too, not perfect but i would let it pass once you know the athelte a bit )

if one hasnt seen an athlete at a race than its not coaching either.



qoute
"Know when to push and when to pull back"
this is one way
at the same time in my mind coaching means more
make the athlete know more about themselves. they need to know why they are doing it. where their limits are ( most people have no idea)
and often its not aobut pushing and pulling back its about managing
fears , worries, stress lazyness overmotivation etc
its not easy to be consistent.

there is a guy here on this forum that talks constantly about swimming being worried the swim donst happen, good coaching would be to help this guy not to waste his energy on stuff he cant controll and make him focus on what really matters, teaching him to be less obsesive, than you would see a good improvement. this is way more important than a program.


I dodnt think providng accountabilty is really coaching for an adult
that goes more into the direction "babysitting " or weight watchers meetings.
and of course it can be important from time to time. but if a coach athlete relationship is built on accountability thats not great in my mind .
i undestand this is what a lot of "coaching" is those days ,but its not desirable in my mind and the goal should be to negate that aspect as much as possibe during a coaching relationship.


btw I wish I would wake up one day and come up with a sentence as smart as Lcd's ( and Peterx's spot on too )

Kurt_Godel

peter kern wrote: »

there is a guy here on this forum that talks constantly about swimming being worried the swim donst happen, good coaching would be to help this guy not to waste his energy on stuff he cant controll and make him focus on what really matters, teaching him to be less obsesive, than you would see a good improvement. this is way more important than a program.

"For sale, Kerns subtlety, Never used"

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

there is a guy here on this forum that talks constantly about swimming being worried the swim donst happen, good coaching would be to help this guy not to waste his energy on stuff he cant controll and make him focus on what really matters, teaching him to be less obsesive, than you would see a good improvement. this is way more important than a program.

You've never met Kurt...........

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

"For sale, Kerns subtlety, Never used"

He was talking about a different Kurt Godel

peter kern

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

"For sale, Kerns subtlety, Never used"

The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places.

shotgunmcos

It's simple

A writer tells
A coach asks

peter kern

shotgunmcos wrote: »

It's simple

A writer tells
A coach asks

I would not make it that simple as many very good coaches would tell a lot and have quite often very definte ideas what they want from many years of expericne ,but agreed observing ( asking ) is important.

the problem with asking can be a lot of people belive a lot and are biased by their answers ( and a lot of people those days read a lot of rubbish on the net and form beleives form that )

shotgunmcos

peter kern wrote: »

I would not make it that simple as many very good coaches would tell a lot and have quite often very definte ideas what they want from many years of expericne ,but agreed observing ( asking ) is important.

the problem with asking can be a lot of people belive a lot and are biased by their answers ( and a lot of people those days read a lot of rubbish on the net and form beleives form that )

The building blocks of any coaching relationship is trust and self awareness. You can tell someone something if they are willing to listen. To find out you must ask. Asking shows you are focused on the client agenda only. That's how trust is formed. When you have trust you can ask for commitment. When you have commitment to the goals then agree the rules of accountabilit. If you get that far you will achieve the progress that sticks.

Even the writer cannot create areal program for an individual with first asking questions.

So simply start with the questions
Establish trust
Ideally establish self awareness
More questions
Establish the goal
Identify the real blockers/limiters
Agree the plan
Establish commitment
Agree rules of accountabiking

Too many 'coaches' I've met churn out a script and follow up with script programs.

While I don't agree with Fran that a coach should know more about the client than the client (there always needs to be curiosity), I do agree that a program needs to be holistic enough to grab the context of environmental factors.

Just my 2c
I accept that Expert knowledge is a significant factor too. It's the communication method of delivering/absorbing it. The best coaches are more than just sports coaches

Kurt_Godel

Richard Quiet Tongue-lashing wrote: »

Interested to hear views of other coaches or athletes being coached on what their expectations are.

For me a coach should provide direction that gets you faster, and helps balance the training load. Results will determine if direction is working or not, and if any relationship should continue and prosper.

Regular dialog is necessary. There needs to be give and take on both sides, (obviously more "take" by the athlete), and program needs to evolve with the aim of getting better results. I was exhausted a month ago and so took myself out of the program to train instead unstructured for a while. You're ultimately responsible for your own actions, and know your own body better than any coach can (he might have a better understanding of your capabilities though).

My expectations when getting a coach were to put some structure on my disorganised training. I've received that over the past couple of years to the point where training is second nature and has become a regular structured part of the week. The "secondary" advice (such as warm-up tips, injury advice, triathlon science) has been a bonus and not something I'd initially have expected to be so useful.

I pay a very small stipend and get very good value for money (probably the limit of what I'd spend though as its a selfish payment that could be better spent on the kids rather than my hobby), and I'd imagine one could spend as much money as they wanted on a coach (or prescriber) if they felt their results deserved it.

Personally I'm glad I took the step to get a coach- I'd been relying on internet advice for training (on this forum and elsewhere) and it can often be contradictory. Can't really respond regarding the OP's statement, which seems intuitively correct, but very vague to my reading. You'd know pretty quickly if your relationship with any coach/prescriber was working or not. If you are happy with progress/results, and happy your progress/results will get faster, then its a good relationship.

peter kern

"Too many 'coaches' I've met churn out a script and follow up with script programs."

Generally i dodnt disagree with that comment but again there is not only one way to do something
ie if you start with a script programe you see how the athlete reacts to the script program in comparasion to other atheltes that did the same plan ,and coaches that do so can get many answers from that already ,so i would not say this has to be wrong for 2-4 weeks especially if you ask the athlete to take 2 weeks rest before starting with you )

I think it also depends what level of athlete and coach you are working with , for instance the coach i would seek would have many years of expereince and would not have to built trust with me. I would go to this coach because i trust in that coach.
or i find a coach because he is really keen thanit would be more and excahnge

if you deal with beginner you have to establish commitment
at the same time if oyuhave an expereinecd athelte and you have to establish commitment often you wont go far it should be more that you have to hold them back.

so i really dont think you can establish a roadmap for coaching that fits beginner athletes and coaches to expereinced atheltes and coaches

So simply start with the questions
Establish trust
Ideally establish self awareness
More questions
Establish the goal
Identify the real blockers/limiters
Agree the plan
Establish commitment
Agree rules of accountabiking

this is how i would expect a weight watcher coach to operate or for coaching somebody from 0 to 5 k
but certainly not with an more advanced athete who would have send me their training log from the last year , shown me race results form last few years , and usualy given me a good outline what they want to achieve
and usualy you have to hold them back rather than establish commitment .
asking is important but at the same time its not a talking shop the better a coach is the more answers they get without asking as they will see very qucikly whats going on by observing somebody swim bike run . getting answers as quickly is possible should be the goal not that better coaching is who asks the most questions.
the good coaches see many answers and ask the right questions andin a way a good coach should be able to coach people that cant speak
you have the analyser the dictator the motivator the crazy professor etc etc all this coaches can be good coaches in their way .

I agree in a way we are all snowflakes , but at the same time there is principles that apply to pretty much all of us.


btw it may sound i disagree with you but more than 90% i agree ;-0