The Sprint Division in Ireland

Lt Dan

This might have been discussed in other threads, but when we look at the programme for horses that go from 5-6 f there really is not much Group 1 action for these horses.

Irish guys like Lynam and Hogan have to travel over to Honk Kong , Meydan and even Signapore to get some action at the beginning and end of the year. Many of the UK and Irish lads don't send their sprinters to the US or Canada? (does the Breeders Cup allow geldings to run - sounds like a stupid question considering the name of the meeting)

Some will rightly point out that Europe focuses on breeding milers and middle distance horses with the token nod to the long distance (que discussions on how the St Leger is treated - at least the Group 2 Goodwood/Lonsdale/Doncaster Cups are decent)

It is not much help for Group 1 winners who have to lump on a lot of weight for the early and prestigious enough Group 2 and 3 races. (Look at Sole Power in the UK or Slade Power 2013 running in Ireland). Sole Power has won Group 1s in the UK and Meydan and came very close to win a major Hong Kong Race, yet, since about 2010, we only saw him run in Ireland roughly 3 times in 6 years

The Group 1-3 Programme, for 3 years and up in the UK is varied, and at least have made a championship out of it, so long as you have a horse that can do both 5 and 6 Furlongs and is okay with being penalized for winning a group 1 the year before or went to Meydan in March

Group 1s in UK are :

June: King's Stand (5f) & Jubilee (6F)& for 3 year old the Commonwealth Cup

July : July Cup 6F

August Nunthrope 5F

September : Haydock Sprint (6F)

October : British Champions Sprints (6F)

After that you have to contend with 3 Group 2's in May (which is fine) a 5 and 7F Group 2 race in August. Group 3 you got two Group 3 in Mayish, one in July and one in October and contend with 7F for the rest

France, you pretty much are okay if you are a 3 year old and can go 7F, but for sprinters you have 5F at that ridiculous track at Longchamp for the L'Abbaye, after that you spend a load of money to go to Hong Kong where chances are not great and then wait for Meydan in March

Ireland, seems good for 7F races for Group 3's. There is one Group 2 for 5f in September (decent timing for L'Abbaye) and none for 6F. Group 3 races then is one good Group 3 in May (6f) July you got Sapphire (5F) and the Phoenix (6 I think) in August

There are shed loads of big handicaps , but not much for decent Irish Sprinters at Group 1 level. Surely, a good Group 1 in say September during Irish Champions Week could attract good horses who might not fancy Haydock? After the Nunthrope in August, there really isn't much till the L'Abbaye. Getting a 6F race might be a bit trickier in September.

But what about putting a Group 1 for 5 and/or 6 F horses in May during Guineas week? The UK programme allows Group 1 caliber older mile horses to go straight to a Group 1 in May without the nonsense of going for a run in a Group 2/3 (if they did not wish to) Even in Ireland there is the Gold Cup for 10f and there are two or three in France in April / May.

Would a Group 1 in Ireland for 5f and /or 6F work in Ireland, or is it a case that the talent is not really there?

Wicklow Brave

Right now I don't think the talent is there for a Group 1 over 5/6f tbh. What I could see happening in a few years, with the way the breeding industry is going, is a 6f Group 1 in Ireland. The Phoenix Sprint Stakes could be the one. It falls at a good time, get the 3 year olds who didn't stay in the Guineas, get UK horses as it falls between the July Cup and Haydock. I think we'll see more and more decent horses that try and fail to stay a mile and will drop back to 6f later in the season.

Perhaps open the race to 2 year olds and let them carry a feather weight like in the Nunthorpe and get rid of the 2yo only Phoenix Stakes.

Lt Dan

Wicklow Brave wrote: »

Right now I don't think the talent is there for a Group 1 over 5/6f tbh. What I could see happening in a few years, with the way the breeding industry is going, is a 6f Group 1 in Ireland. The Phoenix Sprint Stakes could be the one. It falls at a good time, get the 3 year olds who didn't stay in the Guineas, get UK horses as it falls between the July Cup and Haydock. I think we'll see more and more decent horses that try and fail to stay a mile and will drop back to 6f later in the season.

Perhaps open the race to 2 year olds and let them carry a feather weight like in the Nunthorpe and get rid of the 2yo only Phoenix Stakes.

August sounds good.

While one could offer 2 year olds to run against 3 years and older like the Nuntrophe, personally I am not mad about it, would prefer to allow 2 year olds develop on their own with their own, but, 2 year olds have won the Nunthrope (but look what happened to them later)

Harry Angstrom

There isn't a sprint race in Ireland that's consistently attracted top quality fields to warrant it being upgraded to Group One status. Unless a sponsor comes along with enough money to attract the top sprinters from abroad, the situation won't change.
It wouldn't surprise me if the King George Stakes at Goodwood is given Group One status before too long. The Qataris have put a huge amount of cash into that meeting, and the quality of runners in that sprint has improved in the past couple of years.

Wicklow Brave

Actually reading on the ATR site earlier and they mentioned that the aim for the Flying Five on ICW is for it to be upgraded to a Group I in the near future. Would personally prefer to see a Group I over 6f before 5f here but any Group I sprint in Ireland is great. I mentioned the Phoenix Sprint Stakes but that clashes with the Prix Maurice De Gheest in Deauville. The Flying Five would be the best option for a Group I sprint in Ireland and looks like it will be in a few years.