Family Car - €4,000 Budget

glic83

Hi all, We are selling our 08 Vectra (1.9 cdti, 120bhp) on Wednesday it's being collected by the buyer. I have moved job recently so don't drive 3+ hours every day, I now cycle to work. The wife doesn't have far to go each day so was pointless having a diesel, so we are getting a petrol car.

There is 2 adults and 2 children (ages 5 & 2). The daily drive for the wife would be school drop and then onto work probably 15km - 20km a day all in.

We are looking to stay with a 1.4 (or maybe a 1.6 petrol). Want a bit of space and nothing too dead in the water. Trying to stay 07/08 because of our budget and the tax. From reading on here the likes of a 1.4 Focus are very sluggish, same with the Leon. 1.4's that are being recommended with a bit of poke seem to be Corolla, i30 and Ceed. The wife doesn't like the look of the older model ceed and cant seem to find an i30 in our budget.

Cars I've been checking out are mostly the Toyota Corolla Saloon. They seem to be decent and reliable. But the wife isn't overly gone on them and she is the person who will be driving the car everyday.

Idealy I'd go for a 1.4 car but I wouldn't rule out 1.6. Just don't want to end up with a car that is too heavy for the engine and takes a month to get to 60mph . Just want a decent family car

Any recommendations would gladly be appreciated. At a big push I could stretch to 4,500 on the budget.

bazz26

I think you are focusing too much on cheap 08 tax and forgetting a bit about what you're buying. A 1.4 litre car on the old tax system is €385 whereas a 1.4 litre which is lower on the co2 is around €280. That's only a saving of around €100 a year in motor tax. Some 1.4 litre engines also cost more on the new tax system than the old system too.

So your choices are either risk buying a less tidy car on your existing budget for the sake of slightly cheaper tax, up your budget to buy a decent cheap tax car or just drop back a year and suck up the extra €100 or so in annual tax with a better chance of buying a cleaner car.

glic83

bazz26 wrote: »

I think you are focusing too much on cheap 08 tax and forgetting a bit about what you're buying. A 1.4 litre car on the old tax system is €385 whereas a 1.4 litre which is lower on the co2 is around €280. That's only a saving of around €100 a year in motor tax. Some 1.4 litre engines also cost more on the new tax system than the old system too.

So your choices are either risk buying a less tidy car on your existing budget for the sake of slightly cheaper tax, up your budget to buy a decent cheap tax car or just drop back a year and suck up the extra €100 or so in annual tax with a better chance of buying a cleaner car.

Not really thinking about the 08 tax tbh, and generally 08 tax for petrol cars was dearer for the 1.4 cars, the diesel cars got cheaper alright.I'm just looking to try get the best car for our needs, based on our budget the cars would generally be taxed on engine size and pre 2nd half 2008. Also some insurance companies aren't helping as they are putting up the cost of insuring a car 10 years or older.

pablo128

There's a few normal civics in your budget but how about this hybrid automatic?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/car-for-sale/12826780

glic83

thanks but they wouldn't be my favourite looking cars. Just on the 1.6's. How are the Nissan Primera's ? I've spotted an 08 T spec any known issues? how are they for fuel? Also looking at 1.6L Avensis hows the fuel economy?

_Brian

Test drove a 1.4 focus recently and it wasn't as dead as expected at all. Decent motor to deliver really, 1.6 would be an option too.

Dardania

Just on the 1.4 petrol ark 2, drove one for a few years. Grand car, performance wise - I didn't feel it was slow to accelerate or anyhting of that nature, and great handling. I felt safe too (5 star NCAP for its era was very reassuring)

Does like fuel however...over the ~60,000km we had it, it averaged 8l/100km (so 35mpg in old money)
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/568705.html

Dardania

duplicate post delete

Audioslaven

Prius all the way. Super car and loads for room for your family. It could be hard to pick one up though at that money

bazz26

Dardania wrote: »

Just on the 1.4 petrol ark 2, drove one for a few years. Grand car, performance wise - I didn't feel it was slow to accelerate or anyhting of that nature, and great handling. I felt safe too (5 star NCAP for its era was very reassuring)

Does like fuel however...over the ~60,000km we had it, it averaged 8l/100km (so 35mpg in old money)
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/568705.html

What are you comparing it to though? It feels similar to a 1.4 litre Golf which is just as sluggish as both have about 75bhp but compared to a 1.4 litre Corolla/i30 or Ceed with 97bhp to 115bhp these are a lot nipper especially for overtaking.

Dardania

bazz26 wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Just on the 1.4 petrol ark 2, drove one for a few years. Grand car, performance wise - I didn't feel it was slow to accelerate or anyhting of that nature, and great handling. I felt safe too (5 star NCAP for its era was very reassuring)

Does like fuel however...over the ~60,000km we had it, it averaged 8l/100km (so 35mpg in old money)
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/568705.html

What are you comparing it to though? It feels similar to a 1.4 litre Golf which is just as sluggish as both have about 75bhp but compared to a 1.4 litre Corolla/i30 or Ceed with 97bhp to 115bhp these are a lot nipper especially for overtaking.

I compared with the general feel of driving on the road (around Dublin principally, some country runs at times) in traffic, and how I felt in comparison with the rest of traffic.

If other cars were turbodiesels, I would frequently see them pull ahead of me when the lights change, but really didn't have any concerns with it's ability to maintain pace with typical traffic / merge onto motorways etc.

You mention overtaking, with presumably lighter cars? I did find low in the rev range the focus didn't have a lot of spare torque - you did have to wind it up a bit to higher rev ranges before the torque would be there to overtake. Again, not an issue if you adopt a more VVT driving approach (more revs) versus reliance on turbos.

It's a trade off for OP - the heft of the vehicle appealed to me for safety, at the cost of greater fuel consumption

bazz26

Dardania wrote: »

I compared with the general feel of driving on the road (around Dublin principally, some country runs at times) in traffic, and how I felt in comparison with the rest of traffic.

If other cars were turbodiesels, I would frequently see them pull ahead of me when the lights change, but really didn't have any concerns with it's ability to maintain pace with typical traffic / merge onto motorways etc.

You mention overtaking, with presumably lighter cars? I did find low in the rev range the focus didn't have a lot of spare torque - you did have to wind it up a bit to higher rev ranges before the torque would be there to overtake. Again, not an issue if you adopt a more VVT driving approach (more revs) versus reliance on turbos.

It's a trade off for OP - the heft of the vehicle appealed to me for safety, at the cost of greater fuel consumption

Driving around in slow moving traffic is not a fair or accurate indication of how a car performs. The other cars have more advanced/modern designed engines than the Focus so offer more power from the same size capacity, something which would be noticeable when you need to overtake smartly. Most if not all the cars I mentioned have similar safety ratings as the Focus also. There is a perception out there that a heavier clunk from a door makes a car safer which is not necessarily true. I owned a MkII Focus and while it was a good car it certainly never felt any safer than other cars in it's class.

Dardania

bazz26 wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

I compared with the general feel of driving on the road (around Dublin principally, some country runs at times) in traffic, and how I felt in comparison with the rest of traffic.

If other cars were turbodiesels, I would frequently see them pull ahead of me when the lights change, but really didn't have any concerns with it's ability to maintain pace with typical traffic / merge onto motorways etc.

You mention overtaking, with presumably lighter cars? I did find low in the rev range the focus didn't have a lot of spare torque - you did have to wind it up a bit to higher rev ranges before the torque would be there to overtake. Again, not an issue if you adopt a more VVT driving approach (more revs) versus reliance on turbos.

It's a trade off for OP - the heft of the vehicle appealed to me for safety, at the cost of greater fuel consumption

Driving around in slow moving traffic is not a fair or accurate indication of how a car performs. The other cars have more advanced/modern designed engines than the Focus so offer more power from the same size capacity, something which would be noticeable when you need to overtake smartly. Most if not all the cars I mentioned have similar safety ratings as the Focus also. There is a perception out there that a heavier clunk from a door makes a car safer which is not necessarily true. I owned a MkII Focus and while it was a good car it certainly never felt any safer than other cars in it's class.

I think we are both making subjective observations about our experiences. In general I agree with the spirit of your post.

OP: Recommend you & your wife take a few test drives to get a feel for what you want.

glic83

Cheers for the replies so far its nice to get feedback from people who have driven the cars.

A few that have caught the wifes eye so far

Seems a bit cheap for the year.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2009-toyota-avensis-1-6-vvti-strada-1-owner/10522117#xtor=EPR-94-%5BemailFriend%5D-Mon%20Aug%2001%2023:49:44%20IST%202016-%5BviewAd%5D-10522117@2


Have no experience of Nissan so don't know how good or bad they are.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2008-nissan-primera-1-6-t-spec-full-leather-nct-18/12824215#xtor=EPR-94-%5BemailFriend%5D-Mon%20Aug%2001%2023:46:13%20IST%202016-%5BviewAd%5D-12824215@2

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-corolla-1-4-low-miles-nct-5-17/12972458#xtor=EPR-94-%5BemailFriend%5D-Mon%20Aug%2001%2023:31:10%20IST%202016-%5BviewAd%5D-12972458@2

I had a look for Hybrids, there is already a Civic (IMA) mentioned earlier in the thread.
The Pirus is had to come by at my budget but I spotted a 06 one thats still over budget but seems to be well looked after

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-prius-t-spirit-low-milage-nct-june-2017/12222416

bazz26

That 2009 Avensis 1.6 petrol costs circa €700 to tax because it's emissions based tax, the seller is lying by claiming it's €516. It also changed ownership only last month and the advert is only 3 days old. The price is still cheap for the year which would suggest something else ain't right. Look for a 08 similar model on the old tax system but be careful as a lot of them were used as taxis over the years.

The Primera wasn't a great car when it was launched back in 2002 though they are well equipped towards the end of their life. Gearboxes can give trouble on them as do the window regulators.

Corolla is a bit more modern than both the Avensis and Primera but they are rather small and cramped on the inside. Not as comfortable as the Avensis either but that might not be a high priority for you.

Prius would probably be most reliable of that list but make sure the boot space is sufficient for your needs as the batteries do eat into the boot space. That particular car is a UK import so make sure to verify that very low mileage.

glic83

bazz26 wrote: »

That 2009 Avensis 1.6 petrol costs circa €700 to tax because it's emissions based tax, the seller is lying by claiming it's €516. It also changed ownership only last month and the advert is only 3 days old. The price is still cheap for the year which would suggest something else ain't right. Look for a 08 similar model on the old tax system but be careful as a lot of them were used as taxis over the years.

The Primera wasn't a great car when it was launched back in 2002 though they are well equipped towards the end of their life. Gearboxes can give trouble on them as do the window regulators.

Corolla is a bit more modern than both the Avensis and Primera but they are rather small and cramped on the inside. Not as comfortable as the Avensis either but that might not be a high priority for you.

Prius would probably be most reliable of that list but make sure the boot space is sufficient for your needs as the batteries do eat into the boot space. That particular car is a UK import so make sure to verify that very low mileage.

Cheers for that info Bazz26, tbh the wife hates the look of the Prius, I look at more the functionality of the car. Never owned a Nissan so wasn't too sure how good the Primera was. How were the Renault petrols of the 08/09 the 1.4 and 1.6 models?

bazz26

You're still looking at the Megane II model sold upto late 2009 which while improved when they facelifted it in late 2007, I'd still have my doubts around electrical issues with them. The Megane III was way more reliable but they are well outside your budget and mostly diesel models.

What about a Mondeo or Focus:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford-mondeo-2007/12831266
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ford-focus-ghia-1-6-115ps-full-service-history/12717489

glic83

Yeah i rember there was issue with the electrics but wasn't sure when that was all sorted out. How does the 1.6 engine fair out in the Mondeo? Is it ok on Fuel? Is it SMF on the petrol car?

grogi

glic83 wrote: »

Cheers for that info Bazz26, tbh the wife hates the look of the Prius, I look at more the functionality of the car. Never owned a Nissan so wasn't too sure how good the Primera was. How were the Renault petrols of the 08/09 the 1.4 and 1.6 models?

Prius does look weird, but it is the most beautiful example of practical motoring.

They are surprisingly roomy inside, and the boot, although look shallow, is very practical. You can always remove the artificial floor and plastic inserts if you need more room there.

They are cheap to run and service, consume just a drop of petrol and are very reliable.

Mine is gone now, but it was three years of trouble free driving.

missvicky

I have an 07 Primera T spec and it is very small I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old and there is no give for any extra once the car seats are fitted. I find the boot tiny also. It's heavy enough on fuel I find myself constantly filling up and wouldn't be doing a massive amount of driving.

glic83

Ok from searching around some more on boards the 1.6 mondeo is underpowered. The wife doesn't like the focus saloon.

So far the options are
1.4 Corolla Saloons
1.6 Focus Hatchback
1.6 Avensis ? Is this under powered as well?

Spotted this i30, seems cheap for the year ?
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-i30/12920732

bazz26

Looks clean, ownership hasn't changed in at least 3 months which is a good thing. Worth a look anyways.

wiz569

glic83 wrote: »

1.6 Avensis ? Is this under powered as well?

I have a 2005 avensis 1.6 m8, bit under powered alright but I wouldn't be pushing it anyway, it does 30mpg on local stop-start runs and up-to 50mpg on longer N road runs, but it bores me stupid lol, there is nothing exciting about them at all

Mind you it has been very reliable though.

Estrellita

Seat Altea 1.6, petrol, '07, Roomy enough for two little ones - http://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/SEAT/Altea-1.6-5DR-5P12D2-S-mint-condition-fully-serviced-low-mileage/7258136006163207792

adox

I've a 2006 1.6 Avensis and it does feel a little underpowered. Also feels like it could do with a six speed gear box instead of five. The amount of times I've gone onto a motorway and looked for another gear that wasn't there.

Bullet proof reliability wise(mine at least) and surprisingly economical.

Audioslaven

grogi wrote: »

Prius does look weird, but it is the most beautiful example of practical motoring.

They are surprisingly roomy inside, and the boot, although look shallow, is very practical. You can always remove the artificial floor and plastic inserts if you need more room there.

They are cheap to run and service, consume just a drop of petrol and are very reliable.

Mine is gone now, but it was three years of trouble free driving.

I agree with you. We have had a couple of prius over the years and not one of them gave any trouble. Granted they were looked after.They are just a super car and top marks to Toyota.

theteal

I've a 07 Mazda 3 saloon. Looks much better than the hatch imo. Not quick but definitely not slow - former owner of a 1.4 focus so I know slow. Dash and centre unit looks good. Not been a bother with it in the 2+ years I've owned it. Only cost ~£3k too as apparently nobody likes small saloons!

ahsan225

glic83 wrote: »

thanks but they wouldn't be my favourite looking cars. Just on the 1.6's. How are the Nissan Primera's ? I've spotted an 08 T spec any known issues? how are they for fuel? Also looking at 1.6L Avensis hows the fuel economy?

The T-Spec will be well speced. I think they would be good value for money. The 118bhp out of the engine would make the car reasonably powerful too. However, past 80k Miles, nissan QG16DE engines are notorious for timing chain rattle. the tensioners go on these and the chain stretches (Thanks Renault).

However, that said, if you find a well kept car, go for it, as it will serve you well. I am driving an almera with technically the same engine (1.8L) for the last 3 years...i have done 40,000 miles and no mechanical trouble at all.

slave1

glic83 wrote: »

thanks but they wouldn't be my favourite looking cars. Just on the 1.6's. How are the Nissan Primera's ? I've spotted an 08 T spec any known issues? how are they for fuel? Also looking at 1.6L Avensis hows the fuel economy?

We have a 1.6l Avensis, only serviced it in 7 years of ownership, bulletproof, always get just under the 800km on a fill, around 6.2l/100km from memory.
I'm just after sourcing a Honda from the North so could be selling the Avensis (104,000kms) next week too...