Seating rules for small coffee shop...

martco

apols if this not correct forum in advance

I'm opening a small bakery shortly...on a shoestring/loan free. It's just about bigger than a market stall

Located on busy road with it's own little patio area at front walled off, the retail/shop floor area is small....the original plan was simply takeaway service but its a lovely little area with nice community spirit and I'd really like to put some seating into play if possible. Physically I was thinking of putting a couple of benches outside no tables and inside I think I can I can get 2 small tables in there maybe 6 chairs.

Now I've asked around extensively and I'm getting all sorts of answers as to if I am allowed to have seating or not.

I have a bathroom for staff and visitors but it's out in the rear as part of the bakery and I don't want to bring customers thru my bakery area by default

I did go googling and I read this legislation published in 1988 (although can't find any updates to this)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1988/si/147/made/en/print
section 9 seems to say to me that even if I placed one seat in the place I have to provide bathroom facilities


BUT

if this is the case how come I see tiny places like mine everyday of the week in Dublin (some having won notable awards) with a couple of tables and chairs/stools and defo no bathroom access for customers?

I'm wondering if this is a grey area? A fairly knowledgeable chap who operates a sandwich place in Dundrum says the min number is 8 to his knowledge...as in up to 8 seats I'll get away with it

Does anyone know where i can get a list of legal rules or requirements with regard to this?

thanks

Gumbo

Planning, Fire cert and DAC required.
Depending on building etc there are some relaxations available.

Where is the site?
What is its current planning /use of the building?

martco

-snip-
It was formerly a Cake shop & already commercial. I took it on (the building not their business, they retired) was a bit run down so refurbed it throughout although the layout and fundamentals are per how it was when it came to me...shop at front, kitchen in behind it.
We're registered with the EHO and she's due to visit soon afaik but I'm not even sure this question is her domain.
Not sure on the fire cert..though I have all the items they'd want I believe (lit exit signs etc.)
I really don't want to delay running the business for too long, I need to start getting money in the till.
DAC? thats a new one on me, I had to google it...I'm not sure how it affects me, I'm already an LTD but I'll ask my accountant next week
thanks for your help

BryanF

please refrain from discussing specific businesses, I've removed one or two such posts

BryanF

Martco

DAC : disabled access certificate
FSC : fire safety cert

chippers

DCC have a license system for tables and chairs. Look on their website for 'table and chairs license'. My understanding is the license is for council owned lands.

On another note if i was you i would review whether you are undertaking a material change of use with the unit ie retail to cafe.

Calahonda52

Can we assume

• you have planning/fire regs:certs for the bakery.
• you have satisfied all the regs re keeping toilet access properly segregated from the bakery.
• you are meeting all the regs for running a bakery: e.g. EHO etc.

The others can point the way re the seating etc
You may already know all what follows:

My question is have you got the necessary software on the till to make sure you account for VAT properly with the coffee shop and ideally links back to stock.
If you are selling bars and stuff you need stock control.

Also decide on policy for staff feeding themselves on your time and at your expense.

Been there, done that... nightmare.

Also throw a CCTV camera over the till, will cut back big time on staff fraud. Its not a problem as long as its up front with staff and signs are up.
If you have broad band you can store the images off site and just make sure the till time matches the CCTV time.
The rule of thumb in cash retail,business is that security aimed at cutting down staff fraud pays for itself in a very short time.
Even with all the software on the till, have a daily cash sheet for the opening cash in the till, down to the euro coins should be enough, and then at end of day.
Be rigorous with any cash float outside the till and don't allow deliveries to be paid for from till.

Also be rigorous about the use of the manager/supervisors keys on the till: it should be very much the exception rather than the rule.

I wish you well.

martco

thanks everyone for your input

I'll talk to the county council Tuesday as I'm interested to know for the future anyhow....
it looks like what I need to do on this project is start the ball rolling by opening up per plan retail/takeaway only per how the place got it's PP for originally...I'm not sure this building is worth all the hassle for this venture for the sake of 2 tables and 6 chairs to call it a cafe. It's a pity there isn't a bit more "scalability" so to speak, I saw the same thing with the EHO side of things...its like a one size fits all which is ok if you're Kerry Group but for someone like us barely bigger than a market stall it is a bit onerous but on that side we've covered all bases even to the point where one of us has done the level 6 HACCP and anyone working is trained etc.

The fire cert is something I'm thinking about.....I don't recall seeing any formal paperwork around that although the place did go thru a full proper change of use with other items on a PP exercise about 12 years ago by prev owners.
I did a lookup on the council db but cant find much of anything relating generally or otherwise, the building has been paying its rates and solicitor had no probs with any of the paperwork as I asked him to have a look a while back to verify nothing major....maybe the local fire station would have these records, anyone know that angle (howto lookup for an existing certification?)

I'll write an update when I've got all my facts together, tara for now!

Gumbo

Where is the building located?