The Fall, Decker Vs Budd

On Sky Atlantic, good bit gone, just starting on Sky Atlantic + 1 (170 on Sky).

Apparently it's the first time they met since THAT moment...

Edit - acc to Google they met in 1985. So much for the advertising blurb...

walshb

You never think of either as great or greatest, but when you read up on both and analyse their careers and times you have to see them as awesome athletes. Their ranges are unreal.

UM1

Decent enuf programme about the two ladies,

walshb

walshb wrote: »

You never think of either as great or greatest, but when you read up on both and analyse their careers and times you have to see them as awesome athletes. Their ranges are unreal.

I remember much more about Budd, the furore over her running for Britain, how tiny she was, how she was regarded as the victim torn apart by those Yanks and the beautiful blonde who turned out to be a nasty loser. I guess that was the British influence, and the fact that she was just so fragile looking. And my Dad did roll his eyes at the whole husband carrying her around thing!

I never realised Decker was so good. And how the depiction of her as graceless was harsh, she should have been shielded better at a time when her emotions were very raw. Clearly a driven athlete, but perhaps not the unpleasant type that she was thought of outside the States.

Amazing just how tough both had it, frustrated by an inability to compete at various levels, Budd for her own country, Decker by politics, the father issues, how both were perhaps manipulated for media purposes, and how a split second clash of legs has placed both in sports history and overshadowed their remarkable ability.

walshb

Most important point to made on the thread is that Decker was completely at fault for the fall.

TRR_the_turd

walshb wrote: »

Most important point to made on the thread is that Decker was completely at fault for the fall.

Most important to point out, that this is entirely your opinion! In my opinion no one was to blame and that is why budd wasn't disqualified from the final standings. Other people are actually of the opinion that Decker was to blame.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Most important point to made on the thread is that Decker was completely at fault for the fall.

It certainly wasn't caused by Budd. It was caused by Decker, and she did concede that she simply was not experienced running in the pack - I guess she was just so dominant in the USA. But still, ultimately an unfortunate accident, pity they didn't get to complete what could have been one of the great duels, the way we remember Coe and Ovett etc.

walshb

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Most important to point out, that this is entirely your opinion! In my opinion no one was to blame and that is why budd wasn't disqualified from the final standings. Other people are actually of the opinion that Decker was to blame.

Blame, fault. Call it as you like. The fall happened because Decker made an error. Anyway, both super athletes, and even though Carl Lewis was the big name and winner in LA, it was these two that garnered the real attention.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

It certainly wasn't caused by Budd. It was caused by Decker, and she did concede that she simply was not experienced running in the pack - I guess she was just so dominant in the USA. But still, ultimately an unfortunate accident, pity they didn't get to complete what could have been one of the great duels, the way we remember Coe and Ovett etc.

Even D most experienced athletes can trip and fall in a pack race. It was just s very unfortunate incident.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

You never think of either as great or greatest, but when you read up on both and analyse their careers and times you have to see them as awesome athletes. Their ranges are unreal.

Decker got done for doping.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

Decker got done for doping.

So?

jamule

walshb wrote: »

So?

What was the lads name who was coaching her then. Never heard of him again

williestroker1

Chivito550 wrote: »

Decker got done for doping.

While been coached by Salazar.

rom

Do you think Hicham El Guerrouj could have used a similar excuse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8vx0MxU9L0

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

So?

So she is a cheat and and not a great.

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

So she is a cheat and and not a great.

She was a career great athlete. Was she a cheat in the early to mid to late 80s? I don't know. Maybe they all were. My points stands. Budd and Decker were great athletes. Decker's doping issues in her late 30s notwithstanding.

You are incapable of separating the two issues. One is that Decker was fantastic runner and a great athlete. The other was that she had a doping violation against her in the late 90s at a time when she was well past her prime.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

She was a career great athlete. Was she a cheat in the early to mid to late 80s? I don't know. Maybe they all were. My points stands. Budd and Decker were great athletes. Decker's doping issues in her late 30s notwithstanding.

You are incapable of separating the two issues. One is that Decker was fantastic runner and a great athlete. The other was that she had a doping violation against her in the late 90s at a time when she was well past her prime.

She was a phenomenal talent as a teen. Her professional career though has been discredited by her doping ban whether you like it or not.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

She was a phenomenal talent as a teen. Her professional career though has been discredited by her doping ban whether you like it or not.

Fair enough. My point was simple. She and Budd were great athletes. The doping violation does tarnish her career. I understand this, but I can also separate the two. Pre 1988/1989 we could question anyone I guess. Very foolish of her to dope later in her career. Do you buy her defence?

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Fair enough. My point was simple. She and Budd were great athletes. The doping violation does tarnish her career. I understand this, but I can also separate the two. Pre 1988/1989 we could question anyone I guess. Very foolish of her to dope later in her career. Do you buy her defence?

Not really. There's too many rubbish excuses you read.

Sure there's a chance she was clean in the 80s and only started doping late in her career to recapture former glory. But it is extremely unlikely. Athletes who achieved phenomenal success clean don't then turn to doping afterwards IMO, and risk ruining their reputation. I'm sure some have, but it's hugely rare I believe.

You're right about the 80s. It was a very dirty era.

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

She was a career great athlete. Was she a cheat in the early to mid to late 80s? I don't know. Maybe they all were. My points stands. Budd and Decker were great athletes. Decker's doping issues in her late 30s notwithstanding.

You are incapable of separating the two issues. One is that Decker was fantastic runner and a great athlete. The other was that she had a doping violation against her in the late 90s at a time when she was well past her prime.

Sorry I can't seperate the issues, if she was willing to cheat when she was caught, how do we know she didn't cheat at her prime?

Her career is maked down as a cheat for me.

walshb

Just finished watching it. I knew Decker was upset, but FFS, didn't realise what an absolute whingebag she was. You'd swear she'd just been told her whole family had been wiped out.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Just finished watching it. I knew Decker was upset, but FFS, didn't realise what an absolute whingebag she was. You'd swear she'd just been told her whole family had been wiped out.

She held every record in the States over any middle distance but was denied an Olympics medal by injury, politics, and a freak accident. I think she's entitled to a moan. I thought the documentary kinda redeemed her a bit, made her more human for those who just remember her sobbing on a track and whining about Budd in the immediate aftermath of the Fall.

Come on, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to enjoy the meeting between them again, the possible realisation by both - if articulated by others in the film - that the ties that bound them were greater than the issues that separated them.

Wigglepuppy

Wonderful show. I was so saddened by the treatment of Zola Budd - it was shameful. Had a look at her wiki after - God that woman had a hard life.

Mary Decker could be a bit of a thunderer but in fairness she was just driven, and also had a hard enough life in some ways.

Skid X

For anyone who missed this, I see it will be repeated on the new Sky Sports Mix Channel on Sunday at 8.30pm

Sky Sports Mix is free if you have a Sky or Virgin Media Television package, it will be showing some free sport as a teaser to try to get you to subscribe to the full Sky Sports Channels.

BeepBeep67

Downloaded Collision Course on Kindle Books, good read so far