Chain Replaced - Question about a problem

g0g

So I got my road bike serviced today for the first time in ages. It is/was on full Shimano 105 5700. Guy called me while doing the job to say the chain is worn/stretched or something and needs to be replaced. Bike has about 5-6K km on it so I assumed that's ok. I think he didn't have a Shimano one but said SRAM (or something) would be the same and do the job grand. I was happy out until I went into the smallest ring on the cassette and something is up there. Whenever I pedal hard it seems to jump and even cycling normally it seems to jump a bit too. Is this an obvious problem?

My theories:
1) The new chain isn't suitable?
2) The new chain needs to be shortened?
3) Something about indexing gears?
4) The small ring on the cassette is too worn and needs replacing? Maybe all the gack that was there before the guy serviced it was preventing me discovering this problem?
5) Something else?

tomasrojo

You probably need to adjust the gears; look it up, but essentially you get the rear wheel off the ground (bike stand is best) and turn the barrel adjuster down by the rear derailleur as you rotate the pedals. That moves the line of the chain in and out a small bit. Your chain is probably just a tiny bit out of line with where it should be to lie stably on the rear sprockets.

tomasrojo

If the chain slips over the sprockets when you're pedalling hard (i.e. starting to go uphill), then the rear sprockets might be worn, but that's less likely than the gears being a bit misaligned.

Wishbone Ash

If your chain has 5-6k on it as you say, then it will be very worn. This will have also worn the cassette and chain rings. The new chain won't 'marry' the teeth on the cassette and chain rings properly so they will also have to be replaced. (The shop should have known that! )

Al Wright

Generally a new chain will jump on worn (to a degree) cassette sprocket.
As the chain seems only to jump on the smallest sprocket when under load, the degree of wear is slight. Use the next higher gear for a while until chain 'beds in'.
THE DANGER IS YOU'LL FORGET, SELECT THE SMALLEST SPROCKET, CHAIN SKIPS UNDER LOAD AND RISK ACCIDENT.

A good practice is to start with 3 new chains per new cassette, rotate chains in order every 1000k, his ensures even wear on each chain and no jump on cassette.
Using this system I get on average, 6000 to 8,000 k per 10 speed chain.

G1032

Yup. As above. New cassette required.

Check your chain wear every so often. You can buy a little tool to check it for only a few euro.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/x-tools-chain-wear-indicator/rp-prod10219

If chain is replaced before it wears too much you'll get a few cassettes per chain. Only takes a few seconds to check and will save you money and hassle.

magicbastarder

any sign of wear on the chainrings?

Wishbone Ash

Al Wright wrote: »

...A good practice is to start with 3 new chains per new cassette, rotate chains in order every 1000k, his ensures even wear on each chain and no jump on cassette.
Using this system I get on average, 6000 to 8,000 k per 10 speed chain.

I've thought about doing that system a few times but, with four bikes, I'd need to keep track of the mileage of 12 chains. My head hurts thinking about it!

g0g

Cool thanks for all the answers. It's only the smallest ring (which I guess I use a lot) so I'll have a look at the state of it. Is it possible to buy individual rings or just the whole thing?

Wishbone Ash

g0g wrote: »

... Is it possible to buy individual rings or just the whole thing?

Yes. Is it a 34?

g0g

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yes. Is it a 34?

Sorry I'm not using the right language here - it's the back where the problem is. I think it's an 11 or a 12

Wishbone Ash

g0g wrote: »

Sorry I'm not using the right language here - it's the back where the problem is. I think it's an 11 or a 12

The cassette.

Is the bike a 9/10/11 speed? (How many sprockets are there on the cassette?)

Do you know what ratio the current cassette is - i.e. if you count the teeth on the largest sprocket and the smallest sprocket. eg 28/12, 27/12, 25/11 etc.

g0g

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The cassette.

Is the bike a 9/10/11 speed? (How many sprockets are there on the cassette?)

Do you know what ratio the current cassette is - i.e. if you count the teeth on the largest sprocket and the smallest sprocket. eg 28/12, 27/12, 25/11 etc.

Sorry yeah the cassette, that's the one!

It's 2012 5700 which I think is 10-speed. big is 27 or 28 and small is 11 or 12. Will count it in the morning. Either way is it possible to replace just one or re you as well getting the full unit?

Wishbone Ash

g0g wrote: »

Sorry yeah the cassette, that's the one!

It's 2012 5700 which I think is 10-speed. big is 27 or 28 and small is 11 or 12. Will count it in the morning. Either way is it possible to replace just one or re you as well getting the full unit?

It's possible with a bit of DIY but not worth it as you can get a whole new cassette for €22.50.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-tiagra-hg500-10-speed-road-cassette/rp-prod137768

That link is for a Tiagra - you don't have to get a 105 (which will cost a little more).

G1032

Buy this (chain whip)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/x-tools-chain-whip/rp-prod10184

and this (lock nut removal tool)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/bbb-lockout-cassette-lockring-remover-btl12/rp-prod60748

and you'll change the cassette yourself in a matter of minutes.

g0g

G1032 wrote: »

Buy this (chain whip)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/x-tools-chain-whip/rp-prod10184

and this (lock nut removal tool)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ie/en/bbb-lockout-cassette-lockring-remover-btl12/rp-prod60748

and you'll change the cassette yourself in a matter of minutes.

Cool thanks that sounds like a plan. The 105 cassette is € 33 on Wiggle plus 20 for these two tools and I'd be sorted?

In fact I already have this cheapy tool set which seems to have the chain whip

ednwireland

Replaced chain and cassette have same problem had to adjust screw that adjusts angle of derailleur to get it almost right. Possible that my problem was down to a loose derailleur hanger and a top derailleur jockey wheel that was flaping around.

Wishbone Ash

g0g wrote: »

...In fact I already have this cheapy tool set which seems to have the chain whip...

You also have the cassette removal tool there also.

magicbastarder

i don't know as much as the guys above me about maintenance, but i'd certainly lean towards ensuring the gears are properly adjusted before replacing parts. you should post a photo of your chainwheel; maybe if the rear sprockets are worn, you'd see corresponding signs of wear on the teeth at the front.

g0g

Here area couple of images - does this help? Based on my count it looks to be an 11-28 and not that expensive to replace if needed. Can anyone suggest if it looks over-worn or not aligned correctly?
WP_20160730_11_51_15_Pro.jpg
WP_20160730_11_52_13_Pro.jpg
WP_20160730_11_54_00_Pro.jpg
WP_20160730_11_52_46_Pro.jpg
I tried to replicate by pushing the pedal hard by hand in the highest gear with it on the stand, but obviously that's not the same as me putting the weight of my body on it while on the road.

magicbastarder

i think you can see a little bit of wear on the teeth, but it does look a bit grubby. i'd clean and lube everything - and confirm than the bottom stop (not sure what the correct terminology is) for the derailleur is correctly adjusted, and take it back out to see if the issue persists.
obviously the chain is clean because it's new.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Hang on a second have you actually tried the barrel adjuster yet? Before doing anything else try and adjust the gear. I doubt very much you've worn the cassette and it just needs indexing as its only happening on one cog.

Some people would have you buying a new cassettes and a full tool kit rather than figuring out what the actual problem is first!

g0g

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Hang on a second have you actually tried the barrel adjuster yet? Before doing anything else try and adjust the gear. I doubt very much you've worn the cassette and it just needs indexing as its only happening on one cog.

Some people would have you buying a new cassettes and a full tool kit rather than figuring out what the actual problem is first!

Thanks will Google that and see if I can find a youtube video or something. I'm pretty rubbish at maintenance but I guess the best way to find out is to give it a bash!

Cee-Jay-Cee

g0g wrote: »

Thanks will Google that and see if I can find a youtube video or something. I'm pretty rubbish at maintenance but I guess the best way to find out is to give it a bash!

Very simply. Turn the bike upside down and put the chain on the smallest cassette and turn the pedals and as you do so twist the little barrel adjuster at the rear derailleur. Turn it towards yourself until the clicking stops. Then go through the rest of the gears as far as the 2nd big cog and adjust with the barrel Adjuster if need be.

Beasty

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've thought about doing that system a few times but, with four bikes, I'd need to keep track of the mileage of 12 chains. My head hurts thinking about it!

Chain wear is not that difficult to keep track of if you use a chain wear checker

The cassette can be a bit more difficult to monitor, particularly if like me you have a dozen or more rear wheels lying around (each with partially worn cassettes)!!!!

magicbastarder

One thing that struck me - I very rarely use the small ring on the freewheel. Assuming you're running small - small, would it not be better to use the big ring more and the middle range of the freewheel to make it easier to change both up and down?

g0g

magicbastarder wrote: »

One thing that struck me - I very rarely use the small ring on the freewheel. Assuming you're running small - small, would it not be better to use the big ring more and the middle range of the freewheel to make it easier to change both up and down?

I would never use the two small rings at the same time with chain crossed, I just used it today to test if the same thing happened regardless of position of chain at the front. Most of my commute is flat enough so I'd be using big ring front and one of the smaller five at the back

g0g

Tried posting an update earlier but must not have worked. Cleaned cassette and problem persists. Tried adjusting barrel both ways but no help. Regardless of big or small ring at front it always happens with small ring at back when I pedal hard. New cassette so?

Eamonnator

Looks like it!
Just for the craic, adjust your H limit screw, it might do the trick. Unlikely, but just might!!!

dvntie

Ok two things for you to do.
1. Change the full cassette.
2. Check the chain for a stiff link. This is usually the main reason for slippage after a new chain installation. If there is a stiff link bring it back to whoever did the job and get them to sort it FOC

magicbastarder

What Eamonnator said - there are two limit screws which set the limits of how far the derailleur can travel regardless of the main barrel adjuster.

Wishbone Ash

Beasty wrote: »

Chain wear is not that difficult to keep track of if you use a chain wear checker.....!

That's not the problem - I have a chain checker and regularly check chains for wear. I was responding to Al Wright's post about rotating 3 chain's per cassette every 1000kms. The chain checker won't tell me when the chain has done 1000kms. I know I could use my Strava log but with 4 bikes and therefore 12 chains, it would be a lot of work.

g0g

Thanks all again for the advice. Picked up a new 105 cassette yesterday in a Halfords sale, installed this evening within a few minutes and problem is gone away! Great to learn how to fix/change something else on a bike!