No smoking legislation

tringle

Can anyone advice me on this, I've looked up the HSE and the HSA websites and cant find what I need.

Smoking in the workplace is banned. But do we have any law about doorways and open windows, is there a minimum distance from a work premises in which smoking is also banned.

Our office has a front door and two windows and is under a canopy. We don't allow our staff or visitors to smoke there...they need to go 10metres away where they are still under a canopy but there are no doors or windows for any premises.

However our neighbours have their back door beside our window and only 2metres from our front door and they use this as their smoking area. They are directly beside our window and the smoke comes in, this will be used as a room for childrens lessons and therapies soon. They have made "benches" to sit on and sit against our wall. The pathway is public but the wall ours and the canopy sheltering them ours.

I have gently asked a few times for them not to smoke but I am not there everyday to monitor it. I am about to send a letter to the company but want to know if I have any legislation to back it up.

Thanks

Losty Dublin

Smoking legislation applies to virtually all workplaces. It doesn't apply to private residential properties. Are they living in a private residence or is it a workplace?

tringle

Both are workplaces, two units in an industrial estate side by side. They are outside their back door (its actually their fire escape) which happens to be beside our front door. The path on which they sit is public ground but they smoke beside our window at the front of our building. The canopy is ours and provides them shelter but also prevents the smoke from blowing away and it comes in out window.

Kimbot

I doubt you will find legislation for that.... smoke blows around etc so would be hard to nail down distances etc.

plodder

You could call the Office of Tobacco Control. They have a compliance line at 1890 333100

Captain Chaos

jonnycivic wrote: »

I doubt you will find legislation for that.... smoke blows around etc so would be hard to nail down distances etc.

There are minimum distance from doorways and open windows listed in the legislation because the fact that smoke blows around.

Most places don't follow them though, like pubs and shops.

tringle

Thanks plodder will do.

Captain Chaos, have you any idea what those minimum distances are....I couldn't find it anywhere.

I don't want to get stroppy with them but would like some legislation to back me up if they decide to argue with me.

GM228

plodder wrote: »

You could call the Office of Tobacco Control. They have a compliance line at 1890 333100

Just a small observation. The Office of Tobacco Control no longer exists, although the above number does get you through to the HSEs Tobacco Control Office.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There are minimum distance from doorways and open windows listed in the legislation because the fact that smoke blows around.

Most places don't follow them though, like pubs and shops.

There are no minimum distances in the legislation.

Infact the HSE who took over from the OTC even states there is no minimum distance but acknowledges that there should be a distance enough to prevent smoke entering a building.

Problem is the law states it's illegal to smoke in a premises, not that it's illegal to smoke outside a premises but let smoke enter a premises.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/Environmentalhealth/Tobacco_Control.pdf

There is no minimum distance given between the smoking area and the premises, but any designated area for smokers should be far enough away from the building to prevent smoke entering the building.

plodder

I'd say you might need professional advice on this, particularly if you are an employer, and your employees are potentially affected by it.

tringle

Thanks all, I called the OTC number and got an answer machine so I sent an email. But if they are gone then maybe they wont get it.
We don't have any actual employees in the building but clients that rent the space (they have employees).
I'm just going to send a simple letter asking that they refrain from smoking at our front door and window explain that the smoke is entering the building and that some of the people inside are young children. I will put up no smoking signs too on our exterior wall.
Its annoying me because we have gone through the bother of stopping our clients from smoking here and provided a designated area.

Marcusm

My recollection is that the framework of the legislation is more complicated when it relates to private land - in such places such as industrial estates I understood that smoking outdoors was only permissible in designated smoking areas, ie you couldn't just light up anywhere.

chancer12

There needs to be adjustments to legislation to introduce minimum distances and also to include private residential accommodation. I live in a duplex apartment in a multi-occupancy unit and the tenants underneath me smoke at their front door constantly. This is directly under the vent to my bedroom window and they are both chain smokers. The whole first floor of my apartment (where we sleep) constantly smells like a beer garden. We have asked the tenants and then their landlord to ask them to move away from the door to prevent this happening and his response is that 'they can smoke what they like, where they like'. They have escalated the issue now as they began smoking weed over the summer. Feel as if I'm hitting my head off a stone wall, they are very conscious of their 'rights'.

Smondie

chancer12 wrote: »

There needs to be adjustments to legislation to introduce minimum distances and also to include private residential accommodation. I live in a duplex apartment in a multi-occupancy unit and the tenants underneath me smoke at their front door constantly. This is directly under the vent to my bedroom window and they are both chain smokers. The whole first floor of my apartment (where we sleep) constantly smells like a beer garden. We have asked the tenants and then their landlord to ask them to move away from the door to prevent this happening and his response is that 'they can smoke what they like, where they like'. They have escalated the issue now as they began smoking weed over the summer. Feel as if I'm hitting my head off a stone wall, they are very conscious of their 'rights'.

Living in an apartment complex means in close proximity to other people. You can't control what you neighbours do outside. Should everyone adapt to suit you?

PaulieBoy

It may well be a case of nuisance, within the law of tort. In other words you have more than the smoking legislation to rely on. A quick chat with your solicitor would would establish if you have an actionable case. Hopefully you would never actually need to take a case but knowing that you could will strengthen your position.

goz83

Smondie wrote: »

Living in an apartment complex means in close proximity to other people. You can't control what you neighbours do outside. Should everyone adapt to suit you?

Do you think it is acceptable that the person is subjected to the fumes of weed (which was illegal to use/possess last time I checked) blowing into their property?

And what if there are children in the apartment, who also are exposed to smoke and illegal substances? The line has to be drawn somewhere and I would say that the immediate line here is legal one.

Seems we disagree in other areas too.

PaulieBoy wrote: »

It may well be a case of nuisance, within the law of tort. In other words you have more than the smoking legislation to rely on. A quick chat with your solicitor would would establish if you have an actionable case. Hopefully you would never actually need to take a case but knowing that you could will strengthen your position.

Isn't there an onus of responsibility on the landlord to ensure the tenants are not causing a nuisance to other residents? I recall a landlord being sued by residents when he allowed his tenants to run amok in his property.

chancer12

The problem is that the landlord refuses to take action. He says his tenants can 'smoke what they like, where they like'. He's a solicitor and refutes my 'allegation', despite the fact that several neighbours have also complained about them openly smoking weed during the day when there are children about. The smell is so strong that it really travels. The guards have been called on numerous occasions due to their anti-social behaviour and have also questioned them about what they are smoking. Although, at the time they were indoors and the guards had no right of entry, they could only caution them against being a nuisance. The management company are intimidated by the landlord and have advised me to take a civil action. I don't have the funds to do that, coming up against a solicitor and his tenant who is technically a single mother (despite her partner living there) and will also be entitled to free legal aid. The local council who placed her there is nothing I can do about her/them smoking outside. My apartment constantly smells like a Beer Garden given that the tenant and her friends don't work, they just hang about smoking outside all day. Her first callers arrive after 8am and there is a troop of people all day long.

goz83

Maybe her partner should be contributing to the rent if he is there....and the social welfare might be interested to know what that contribution is. I don't like the idea of my taxes being spent on weed smoking spongers who take advantage of their "entitlements".

chancer12

Yes, I know I should let Social Welfare know but these are 'scary' people. They already know that I've complained to the management company. Their landlord buddies up with them against the rest of us. Therefore I'd be afraid they would increase the hassle. I've been reliably informed that it would take 2 years to get them out - in the interest of 'due process' and 'fairness' to her. I could have 2 years of hell in the meantime. She has a family member who was already moved from the development and one of her neighbours had to sell during that time due to the amount of hassle they got. Their children were constantly being bullied and virtually couldn't leave their home. Strange how she's protected as a single mother, when she isn't one in reality. Whereas I am a single mother, but one who goes to work and pays a mortgage as well as the tax that provides for her. Strange country.

goz83

It sounds like you're not the only one who isn't happy with her, so that tip off could have come from anywhere. There are systems in place, which would see her moved on pretty quickly is she became a bigger problem. Anti social behaviour is a catalyst for being kicked out. I'm not so sure how reliable the information you received is. There have been plenty of people evicted from social housing for less than what you describe. You'd be best advised to have a word with someone who is informed about these things.

Johnboy1951

tringle wrote: »

Both are workplaces, two units in an industrial estate side by side. They are outside their back door (its actually their fire escape) which happens to be beside our front door. The path on which they sit is public ground but they smoke beside our window at the front of our building. The canopy is ours and provides them shelter but also prevents the smoke from blowing away and it comes in out window.

A powerful window fan blowing on the smokers might have the desired effect. It could be sensor activated and only blow when required.

4ensic15

chancer12 wrote: »

The problem is that the landlord refuses to take action. He says his tenants can 'smoke what they like, where they like'. He's a solicitor and refutes my 'allegation', despite the fact that several neighbours have also complained about them openly smoking weed during the day when there are children about. The smell is so strong that it really travels. The guards have been called on numerous occasions due to their anti-social behaviour and have also questioned them about what they are smoking. Although, at the time they were indoors and the guards had no right of entry, they could only caution them against being a nuisance. The management company are intimidated by the landlord and have advised me to take a civil action. I don't have the funds to do that, coming up against a solicitor and his tenant who is technically a single mother (despite her partner living there) and will also be entitled to free legal aid. The local council who placed her there is nothing I can do about her/them smoking outside. My apartment constantly smells like a Beer Garden given that the tenant and her friends don't work, they just hang about smoking outside all day. Her first callers arrive after 8am and there is a troop of people all day long.

You can complain to the PRTB about anti social behaviour. You can speak to a local garda about the smoking of weed. Have the place raided when they are at it.

chancer12

Yes, I'm in contact with the PRTB but the whole process is really slow. Have been in contact with the Guards but they haven't been able to catch them. They did call one night when they were having a party asking them to tone it down and asked what they were smoking. They confirmed it was hash but as they were indoors there was nothing the guards could do. These are people who know how to play the system, there's no winning for us in this.