How 'easy' are you allowed be?

HS3

Sorry to be bringing this old chestnut up again. I know Ive read a few times on here that easy means easy. But is there a cut off point (besides walking :pac: ) that you have to pull yourself up from?

I've read it time and again on here that easy runs and their pace are not of significance, it's the sessions that count. When you feel you're going easy, slow down even more. But then I've read online that easy should be a conversational pace and, for example if you can sing that's too slow. But that, to me, suggests go easy, but don't take the p*ss.

I was out for a run last Sunday. For one excuse or another it was going to be my first long run in a while so I needed to just get it done. I set an 8 mile target (strava robbed me if half a mile however) and picked a route that I find particularly challenging, in that the second half is all up hill. So I knew I had to go slow, and I had to choose what I wanted more, miles or pace, I couldn't have both. When I got going I knew it wasn't easy enough, but couldn't gauge it properly. Anyhow, this guy clipped passed me. He was just teetering along and I guessed, marathon training season and all, I bet hes doing a long run and though our targets are completely different, the agenda is the same; get the miles done. So I copied him . If he looked back I would have been done for stalking , but I relaxed and had a completely different run to what I'm used to. I was in complete control. I had time, when things felt tough to do a system run through, find out where the problem was and resolve it . When I got back the pace said 11:51/pm , but I really wasn't bothered because the run itself was a massive learning curve.

Tues I tried it again. I had to take it even handier though because I was in the wrong shoes. The pace said 12:00/pm. That peed me off a bit because it was even slower than my long run, but it was a lovely controlled 'run' and that felt good.

But my concern is, anyone could 'run' at 12 mins avg pace per mile and while it was enjoyable, I can't really take it to the bank as any sure sign of fitness or progress and if I continue down this route is it just a useless exercise? Literally :pac: Is there an easy cut off?

Krusty_Clown

Peter Brandon - Kenyan athlete who has spent some time in Ireland running (and winning) a number of road races, has recently started using Strava to track his runs. Here's an easy 7 mile run from yesterday. Pace: 11+ min/mile. Now you have to take that in the context that today, he's running reps at around 4:30/mile. The point I'm trying to make is that there's no lower limit to an easy run, but it has to be relevant and useful (beneficial). If you're a low mileage runner, there will be benefit, as you're increasing your mileage and gaining fitness and running economy. If you're training for one of your first few marathons, you need time on your feet in order to move towards making some of the adaptations necessary to allow you to comfortably run the distance. If however, you're a regular improving runner, there should be a specific purpose for the run. It should be about aerobic improvement, assisting with rehabilitation after a session, building up some tiredness in the legs for an upcoming session.... Just not running for the sake of running.

I do a lot of easy miles (prescribed within my plan) where I don't look at pace (it's not on my watch) and they tend to fall into the required pace (tend to be slower immediately following races or hard sessions) and tend to build up in pace as I move towards the next session. So generally, running at a pace that doesn't cause discomfort! My plan doesn't call out the specific goals for the general easy runs, but the body knows what the body needs at this stage.

So if you're in the early stages of running development, forget about the numbers (until after you arrive home). If you're an old hand, have a specific purpose in mind, and forget about the numbers (until after you arrive home!).

ultrapercy

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Peter Brandon - Kenyan athlete who has spent some time in Ireland running (and winning) a number of road races, has recently started using Strava to track his runs. Here's an easy 7 mile run from yesterday. Pace: 11+ min/mile. Now you have to take that in the context that today, he's running reps at around 4:30/mile. The point I'm trying to make is that there's no lower limit to an easy run, but it has to be relevant and useful (beneficial). If you're a low mileage runner, there will be benefit, as you're increasing your mileage and gaining fitness and running economy. If you're training for one of your first few marathons, you need time on your feet in order to move towards making some of the adaptations necessary to allow you to comfortably run the distance. If however, you're a regular improving runner, there should be a specific purpose for the run. It should be about aerobic improvement, assisting with rehabilitation after a session, building up some tiredness in the legs for an upcoming session.... Just not running for the sake of running.

I do a lot of easy miles (prescribed within my plan) where I don't look at pace (it's not on my watch) and they tend to fall into the required pace (tend to be slower immediately following races or hard sessions) and tend to build up in pace as I move towards the next session. So generally, running at a pace that doesn't cause discomfort! My plan doesn't call out the specific goals for the general easy runs, but the body knows what the body needs at this stage.

So if you're in the early stages of running development, forget about the numbers (until after you arrive home). If you're an old hand, have a specific purpose in mind, and forget about the numbers (until after you arrive home!).

It amazing that a runner of that standard could comfortably run that slowly. I'm not comfortable outside 7.30 and I would find a 7 mile run at 6 much more comfortable than the same run at 7.30. As for 11 min per mile that would be impossible torture but it's obviously part of the training of a much better runner than me. I wonder is that a mindset or being mentally conditioned to thinking faster is better? Or is there a cruise gear where the body operates more efficiently?

Ososlo

13.41 pace a few weeks back :eek:

I think we should all try running a few miles as slowly as we possibly can and report back!

tang1

Ososlo wrote: »

13.41 pace a few weeks back :eek:

I think we should all try running a few miles as slowly as we possibly can and report back!

That's basically the St Cocas 5k route he ran to, not exactly hilly, one of the fastest 5ks in Leinster.

Krusty_Clown

ultrapercy wrote: »

It amazing that a runner of that standard could comfortably run that slowly. I'm not comfortable outside 7.30 and I would find a 7 mile run at 6 much more comfortable than the same run at 7.30. As for 11 min per mile that would be impossible torture but it's obviously part of the training of a much better runner than me. I wonder is that a mindset or being mentally conditioned to thinking faster is better? Or is there a cruise gear where the body operates more efficiently?

I suppose it's part mental and part physical conditioning that allows Kenyans to run at that pace. They've likely been doing it since childhood, where it's one run as part of a double or tripe run day and the only goal is to get over the previous session or get ready for the next one. It's not unusual for the mazungos to jog past groups of Kenyans in the Kenyan hills when they're doing the Kenyan shuffle (or even their easy days), but those same Mazungos will be kicked out the back before very long on a fartlek or track day.

HS3

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Peter Brandon - Kenyan athlete who has spent some time in Ireland running (and winning) a number of road races, has recently started using Strava to track his runs. Here's an easy 7 mile run from yesterday. Pace: 11+ min/mile. Now you have to take that in the context that today, he's running reps at around 4:30/mile. The point I'm trying to make is that there's no lower limit to an easy run, but it has to be relevant and useful (beneficial). If you're a low mileage runner, there will be benefit, as you're increasing your mileage and gaining fitness and running economy. If you're training for one of your first few marathons, you need time on your feet in order to move towards making some of the adaptations necessary to allow you to comfortably run the distance. If however, you're a regular improving runner, there should be a specific purpose for the run. It should be about aerobic improvement, assisting with rehabilitation after a session, building up some tiredness in the legs for an upcoming session.... Just not running for the sake of running.

I do a lot of easy miles (prescribed within my plan) where I don't look at pace (it's not on my watch) and they tend to fall into the required pace (tend to be slower immediately following races or hard sessions) and tend to build up in pace as I move towards the next session. So generally, running at a pace that doesn't cause discomfort! My plan doesn't call out the specific goals for the general easy runs, but the body knows what the body needs at this stage.

So if you're in the early stages of running development, forget about the numbers (until after you arrive home). If you're an old hand, have a specific purpose in mind, and forget about the numbers (until after you arrive home!).

Fantastic! Puts a bit of perspective on it all. While my easy runs sadly dont convert my sessions into any great success (Kenyan or otherwise) it does explain why the easy runs feel so different on Tuesdays as opposed to Thursdays. In fact I always wondered why sessions weren't on a Tues, when you'd normally feel great and could fly through them.

I did some googling in work and found some useful stuff on runners connect which explains why easy runs should be exactly that, which compliments exactly what you're saying, so I can put more faith in the body telling me what it wants.

Thanks a million for the response !

HS3

Ososlo wrote: »

13.41 pace a few weeks back :eek:

I think we should all try running a few miles as slowly as we possibly can and report back!

Hah! I might start myown easy running group....if you can keep down (?) with me, you've got it nailed

This Fat Girl Runs

Ososlo wrote: »

13.41 pace a few weeks back :eek:

I think we should all try running a few miles as slowly as we possibly can and report back!

This makes me trivially happy to see this! This is my pace territory

Ososlo

Ososlo wrote: »

13.41 pace a few weeks back :eek:

I think we should all try running a few miles as slowly as we possibly can and report back!

Tried this this morning on a recovery run. Ignored the watch and ran as slowly as possible without walking. Had the roads to myself so made it a bit easier!

Splits: 13:04 12:42 12:39

I think I can do a lot better so will give it another go soon!

edit: to put it into context, my normally recovery pace would be 10-10:30min/mile

Krusty_Clown

Ososlo wrote: »

Tried this this morning on a recovery run. Ignored the watch and ran as slowly as possible without walking. Had the roads to myself so made it a bit easier!

Splits: 13:04 12:42 12:39

I think I can do a lot better so will give it another go soon!

edit: to put it into context, my normally recovery pace would be 10-10:30min/mile

The goal shouldn't be to see how slow you can go. It should be to run at a pace that facilitates repair and preparation. In fact the word 'slow' probably has no place in this thread. The focus should be on 'easy' - as in the most comfortable you can possibly be. Running too slow may not be comfortable (which is why Ultrapercy's easy tends to be faster than 7 min/mile - he's not conditioned like Kenyans to run at 12+ min/mile (not does he necessarily need to be)). But if that's what your pace ends up being when not looking at the watch and it feels beneficial, then it's likely about right.

El Caballo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The goal shouldn't be to see how slow you can go. It should be to run at a pace that facilitates repair and preparation. In fact the word 'slow' probably has no place in this thread. The focus should be on 'easy' - as in the most comfortable you can possibly be. Running too slow may not be comfortable (which is why Ultrapercy's easy tends to be faster than 7 min/mile - he's not conditioned like Kenyans to run at 12+ min/mile (not does he necessarily need to be)). But if that's what your pace ends up being when not looking at the watch and it feels beneficial, then it's likely about right.

+1 and I think you have to do a mental reshuffle of what easy means too even without the watch as the effort level could still be skewed from past experience as being too hard. When I used to read about Lydiard prescribing long easy runs as a cure for dead legs and overtraining, I couldn't imagine how that was right even without a watch as a long run was about the last thing I could imagine doing on fried quads because my perceived effort of easy was way off what it really should've been. Wearing a heart rate monitor for a while really drove home to me and how I should feel during and after easy runs which was nice and refreshed. I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout way is that dropping the watch and running by feel won't solve the problem of running too hard if you haven't dialled in what effort easy really is which is the main part but trying to shake the obsession on pace is definitely a start.

BeepBeep67

A good rule of thumb is that you should feel marginally better after an easy run than you did beforehand, if not, it wasn't easy enough.

HS3

Probably showing my ignorance here now, but if going easy for an individual translates into slower runs, should easy runs be done in time as opposed to distance?

The reason ask is because if I am to truly go easier for me it's over an hour for a 5 and a half mile run, which brings me way over my lunch hour . Yes changing my schedule a round to evening runs would be the obvious solution, but before doing it I wanted to check if, for slower runners running for say 60 mins for an easy run is any better or worse than running 5+ miles in 60+ mins?

annapr

HS3 wrote: »

Probably showing my ignorance here now, but if going easy for an individual translates into slower runs, should easy runs be done in time as opposed to distance?

The reason ask is because if I am to truly go easier for me it's over an hour for a 5 and a half mile run, which brings me way over my lunch hour . Yes changing my schedule a round to evening runs would be the obvious solution, but before doing it I wanted to check if, for slower runners running for say 60 mins for an easy run is any better or worse than running 5+ miles in 60+ mins?

Maybe start thinking in terms of time, rather than miles? Some plans specify time... E.g, 60 min easy, 45 min easy.... I find that liberating, you stop worrying about the number of miles and easier to keep it easy

Firedance

annapr wrote: »

Maybe start thinking in terms of time, rather than miles? Some plans specify time... E.g, 60 min easy, 45 min easy.... I find that liberating, you stop worrying about the number of miles and easier to keep it easy

+1 to that, the plan I'm using at the moment is based on time, my weekend long run will be 90 mins easy.

Utdfan20titles

Is this tread about women in coppers?

HS3

annapr wrote: »

Maybe start thinking in terms of time, rather than miles? Some plans specify time... E.g, 60 min easy, 45 min easy.... I find that liberating, you stop worrying about the number of miles and easier to keep it easy

Firedance wrote: »

+1 to that, the plan I'm using at the moment is based on time, my weekend long run will be 90 mins easy.

Hah! Don't feel like such a mug now. I shall change tactics and hopefully it'll leave me in better nick for Wednesday's and ease my weary bones lol