Church Bell excessively loud

dolanbye

Live close to a church bell and quite frankly is completely irritating me and my dogs wont stop barking whenever it goes off. It is excessively loud. Asked the local priest can something be done and looked at me with two heads. I want it stopped altogether if i'm honest.

...And Justice

dolanbye wrote: »

Live close to a church bell and quite frankly is completely irritating me and my dogs wont stop barking whenever it goes off. It is excessively loud. Asked the local priest can something be done and looked at me with two heads. I want it stopped altogether if i'm honest.

Jesus Christ, what time does the bell go off? And what exactly do you think the priest can do about it?

dolanbye

Living here eight months, goes off at
9, 12 and 6 Monday,Wendesday, Thursday, Friday.
12, 6, 7.30 on Tuesday
On Saturday 12, 6 and 7.30
On Sunday 10.00, 12 and 6

And its pretty loud, Dogs goes mental for 5 minutes every time

Marcusm

dolanbye wrote: »

Living here eight months, goes off at
9, 12 and 6 Monday,Wendesday, Thursday, Friday.
12, 6, 7.30 on Tuesday
On Saturday 12, 6 and 7.30
On Sunday 10.00, 12 and 6

And its pretty loud, Dogs goes mental for 5 minutes every time

You're lucky; one of our local ones goes off on the hour throughout the night. Caveat emptor!

MarkAnthony

There's some blow in down the road who's fecking dogs are always barking. Is there anything I can do? It's be nice if he took the things for a walk once in awhile so they didn't go mental every time a church bell rang.

Incidentally has the church just appeared in the last few months?

daveyeh

Petty revenge noise maybe?

Invite a Satanic Black Metal band with amps pointed at the church to rehearse every Sunday during mass.

st1979

Can you not get rid of your dogs

Pawwed Rig

...And Justice wrote: »

And what exactly do you think the priest can do about it?

Stop it clanging maybe?

daveyeh

st1979 wrote: »

Can you not get rid of your dogs

for whom the bell tolls

dolanbye

MarkAnthony wrote: »

There's some blow in down the road who's fecking dogs are always barking. Is there anything I can do? It's be nice if he took the things for a walk once in awhile so they didn't go mental every time a church bell rang.

Incidentally has the church just appeared in the last few months?

Ha, Its not just my dogs, other peoples dogs as well.

Its a small village with a population of around 500.

nhunter100

dolanbye wrote:

Live close to a church bell and quite frankly is completely irritating me and my dogs wont stop barking whenever it goes off. It is excessively loud. Asked the local priest can something be done and looked at me with two heads. I want it stopped altogether if i'm honest.

You didn't notice the church before you moved in. Chances are it's been there for decades if not centuries. Being honest think you will either have to accept it or move.

nhunter100

Pawwed Rig wrote:

Stop it clanging maybe?

That ain't going to happen.

Pawwed Rig

nhunter100 wrote: »

That ain't going to happen.

How you know?

A petition might work

dolanbye

nhunter100 wrote: »

You didn't notice the church before you moved in. Chances are it's been there for decades if not centuries. Being honest think you will either have to accept it or move.

Guess I'll be seeing the local priest in court.

Complaints under the EPA Act

While the law does not specifically mention an exact level or standard of noise that is illegal, it is clear that if neighbourhood noise is affecting your quality of life, then you have a right to complain. If you plan to complain about excessive noise, it is generally recommended that you keep a detailed diary of the times when it occurred, the duration and, if possible, the levels involved.

You should first approach the person or business causing the noise, explain that it is a nuisance and try to come to a mutually acceptable solution.

Applying to the District Court
If this does not work, the Act allows any person, a local authority or the EPA to complain to the District Court about a noise that is ‘so loud, so continuous, so repeated, of such duration or pitch or occurring at such times as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to a person in any premises in the neighbourhood or to a person lawfully using any public place’ and seek an order to deal with the noise nuisance. There is a small fee.

Consult the Clerk of the local District Court about an appointment for the hearing of your case. You will need to refer exactly to the legislation under which you are making the complaint – Section 108 of the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and the Environmental Protection Agency Act (Noise) Regulations 1994.

At least 7 days before the date for the hearing of your case, you must serve notice on the person or business you are complaining about, using the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 - noise form of notice. It is important to use this form of notice only and to complete it fully and accurately.

A person making noise in the course of trade or business may have a defence if it can be shown that all reasonable care was taken to prevent the noise or that the noise is in accordance with a licence issued under the Act.

If the court finds in your favour, it can order the person or body making, causing or responsible for the noise to take measures to prevent or limit the noise. Any such orders must be complied with.

Manach

Given the focal point such a church has in a village and thus being a source of local pride, the chances of the OP being regarded as a blowin cranky type would be rather high.

Grolschevik

Many churches' "bells" are actually recordings played over a PA system through speakers mounted in/on the spire.

If this church is one of those, maybe you could get one of the speakers' direction changed or even just get them to turn it down a bit.

Even a small change in decibel level could make the difference.

nhunter100

Pawwed Rig wrote:

A petition might work

Present the petition to who? It's accepted centuries old tradition. OP will eventually get used to the noise and subconsciously ignore it. I lived beside a train station for years. First few months it was terrible later on what noise.

clunked

dolanbye wrote: »

Live close to a church bell and quite frankly is completely irritating me and my dogs wont stop barking whenever it goes off. It is excessively loud. Asked the local priest can something be done and looked at me with two heads. I want it stopped altogether if i'm honest.

Some nerve. How long has the church bell been there. Perhaps you could train your dog or perhaps you should have noticed the sound that before you moved there. I'm sick of picking up dog poo in my front garden. The local church bell never does that:mad:

nhunter100

dolanbye wrote:

Guess I'll be seeing the local priest in court.

Yep that'll make settling into village life very easy. Good luck with that. : )

Pat Mustard

Mod note:

Moral outrage is of no relevance to legal discussion and is not welcome here.

Please keep on topic with legal discussion or don't post here.

L1011

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Incidentally has the church just appeared in the last few months?

The church back home replaced a real bell with a recorded one at some stage in the 1990s which was vastly louder and, when the priest realised it was a PA system, started being used to relay the audio off EWTN and other random stuff in/around mass times.

A planning enforcement complaint had it back to the real bell (mechanically actuated clanger) rather sharpish then But the bells can very much post-date the church.

Corca Baiscinn

Sorry! The OP may well adjust to the noise but the dogs wont unless some type of desensitisation training is possible! The only thing that has interrupted our dog's 12 year history of barking at the sound of a letter in the postbox or the doorbell ringing is that he with advancing age he has has become deaf!

mrcheez

In the Middle East you'd often end up living close enough to a mosque with prayer called blasted through the PA. At first annoying, but over the years you get used to it, but I guess be thankful you don't have that (yet).

Would triple glazing the windows not sort this issue (same as with living near an airport)?

gordongekko

dog ear plugs?

Ninap

I think daytime noise is more likely to be considered acceptable by the EPA. If it were being sounded every hour throughout the night (as some church bells are), then the EPA should take action, as that is an unacceptable interference with neighbours' right to peace and quiet.

Pawwed Rig

nhunter100 wrote: »

Present the petition to who? .

The priest.

A couple of hundred signatures from the locals will show him that people aren't happy. Alternatively the OP will find that they are the only ones with an issue.

Xenji

Ninap wrote: »

I think daytime noise is more likely to be considered acceptable by the EPA. If it were being sounded every hour throughout the night (as some church bells are), then the EPA should take action, as that is an unacceptable interference with neighbours' right to peace and quiet.

I lived across the road from a Church that had a clock tower, it used to go off every 15 minutes and then on the hour as well 24 hours a day, after a week or two you would barely even notice the sound and after a month you were so used to it you would not even hear it.

Xcellor

Maybe record the bell and play it on repeat from a stereo so the dog gets used to it... If it sounds like something inside he is less likely to freak out when he hears it.

I'm sure there are other ways to get your dog used to hearing a bell than actually removing the bell.

Squatman

me and my dogs wont stop barking

Can get barking collars for the dogs, and a another one for yourself...:D

nhunter100

Corca Baiscinn wrote:

Sorry! The OP may well adjust to the noise but the dogs wont unless some type of desensitisation training is possible! The only thing that has interrupted our dog's 12 year history of barking at the sound of a letter in the postbox or the doorbell ringing is that he with advancing age he has has become deaf!

Ear muffs, sorted.

nhunter100

Pawwed Rig wrote:

A couple of hundred signatures from the locals will show him that people aren't happy. Alternatively the OP will find that they are the only ones with an issue.

Village of 500 according to the OP. Likely if the other residents weren't happy, a petition would have already done the rounds.

Pro Hoc Vice

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/noise-complaint-silences-church-bells-after-130-years-1.1535206

Belles went off every 15 mins the only issue was between 11pm and 7am.

Pawwed Rig

nhunter100 wrote: »

Village of 500 according to the OP. Likely if the other residents weren't happy, a petition would have already done the rounds.

Maybe they were waiting for someone like the OP to kick it off. Or maybe it is just not an issue for anyone else.

Town we stayed in in France had a very loud bell that rang at 6:30am each morning. Fairly annoying alright.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

MarkAnthony

Here's something for you OP.

copperhead

think of all the money you save, no need for clocks

26000 Elephants

OP needs to realise that the problem is less about the bells,and more about his dogs reaction to them.

You need to adapt your dogs reaction to the bell to something less stressful to you.

You will more than likely be unable to stop the bells, but you can change your dogs reaction.

endacl

jacksie66 wrote: »

I'd recommend setting up your own PA system and blasting AC/DC-Hells Bells at 12pm and Metallica-For Whom The Bell Tolls at 6pm..

If that doesn't work, perhaps kick up a pointless fuss?

StupidLikeAFox

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The priest.

A couple of hundred signatures from the locals will show him that people aren't happy. Alternatively the OP will find that they are the only ones with an issue.

C'mon, you don't tell the priest what to do, he's supposed to tell you what to do

Pat Mustard

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Please keep on topic with legal discussion or don't post here.

This thread will be closed in the absence of legal discussion on the topic at hand.

nhunter100

Looking at the OP's earlier posts he stated the times the bell tolls. I'm assuming the early text is AM and the later PM. Having read the post of another poster regarding noise nuisance I think (only my opinion) the noise falls outside of that definition. The bell tolling is not excessive, the dogs not used to the noise is the issue. Deal with the dogs.

Nokia6230i

Is there a Planning/Architectural Forum on Boards? If so those who frequent it may be of as much if not more assistance?

Why?

Noise Pollution Laws from 1963 were the reason (I was told) that Tralee Mosque couldn't broadcast their 5 Daily Calls to Prayer.

Said Law wasn't backdated/applied retrospectively & majority of cathedrals & churches here pre-date 63.

Explored this because where I live at 12 Midnight the bells gonna ring 42 Times. Why? 12 + 12 + 18 for the Angelus......yes, the Angelus rings at 12 Midnight.

So at 12 Noon it also rings 42 Times (I used to think 30 was extracting the urine; it went 12 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 9).

At 6pm it rings 30 Times (6 + 6 + 18 for Angelus).

At 5am it rings just the 10 Times though so that's not too bad.

At 1am/1pm it rings just 2wice etc.

So if you didn't hear the bells ring & can't remember the time, they'll ring the time again a second time. 42 is the maximum; 2 is minimum.

As it happens the Angelus also goes off at 8pm so that's 8 + 18 = 26.

4 Angeluses (sp?) in the 1 Day. And me one of those Atheists & it a residential area too.........

Still, at least I don't have dogs that'll bark so it's all good in the hood......

Esel

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Is there a Planning/Architectural Forum on Boards? If so those who frequent it may be of as much if not more assistance?

Why?

Noise Pollution Laws from 1963 were the reason (I was told) that Tralee Mosque couldn't broadcast their 5 Daily Calls to Prayer.

Said Law wasn't backdated/applied retrospectively & majority of cathedrals & churches here pre-date 63.

Explored this because where I live at 12 Midnight the bells gonna ring 42 Times. Why? 12 + 12 + 18 for the Angelus......yes, the Angelus rings at 12 Midnight.

So at 12 Noon it also rings 42 Times (I used to think 30 was extracting the urine; it went 12 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 9).

At 6pm it rings 30 Times (6 + 6 + 18 for Angelus).

At 5am it rings just the 10 Times though so that's not too bad.

At 1am/1pm it rings just 2wice etc.

So if you didn't hear the bells ring & can't remember the time, they'll ring the time again a second time. 42 is the maximum; 2 is minimum.

As it happens the Angelus also goes off at 8pm so that's 8 + 18 = 26.

4 Angeluses (sp?) in the 1 Day. And me one of those Atheists & it a residential area too.........

Still, at least I don't have dogs that'll bark so it's all good in the hood......

I call dogsh!t on your arithmetic. See you at eight bells. Thanks for the paragraphs btw - so much easier to read!

tl/dr Saw/heard a small Jack Russell dog recently howling at the moon while a fire engine passed by. It was a kind of Warren Zevon Werewolves of London vibe. I thought of Lon Chaney, and smiled inside.

NUTLEY BOY

On the face of it the OP may have an arguable case for nuisance.

Context and knowledge are relevant.

OP may have known that there was a church present but that does not mean that he had knowledge of - or is to be fixed presumptively with knowledge of - the frequency and or intensity of the bells.

On the other hand if it is reasonable in the context of the location the bells may be considered as nothing more than a normal practice established by custom and usage. " What would be a nuisance in Belgrave Square would not necessarily be so in Bermondsey " per Thesiger LJ. (Sturges v Bridgman)

The only case I can ever remember from the dark ages was Sturges v Bridgman (1879). A doctor came to an area and built a consulting room beside a bakery which was noisy. The doctor complained and sued in nuisance over the noise. I think that he won his action. The defendant tried arguing that the plaintiff came to the nuisance but that defence is usually no answer in a private nuisance action.

Obviously the law has developed since 1879 but the principles of knowledge and context would still be relevant.

feargale

dolanbye wrote: »

And its pretty loud, Dogs goes mental for 5 minutes every time

Marcusm wrote: »

You're lucky; one of our local ones goes off on the hour throughout the night. Caveat emptor!

Caveat canem.

Teyla Emmagan

There have been several incidents in the papers where people have had the local church bells turned off. As someone said, most of them are on a PA system. It's rare that any are rung manually these days, and if they are it'll be after some special ceremony on a Sunday, not the ones at ridiculous o'clock.

Regardless of whether or not the OP should sort out his dogs, or not complain, or should have done his research better, there is loads of precedent in his favour with regard to having the bells turned off, or down.

I won't be the one doing the googling for him though.

Discodog

26000 Elephants wrote: »

OP needs to realise that the problem is less about the bells,and more about his dogs reaction to them.

You need to adapt your dogs reaction to the bell to something less stressful to you.

You will more than likely be unable to stop the bells, but you can change your dogs reaction.

So true. Usually dogs are left outside & end up causing a barking nuisance that's far worse than the bells. You can easily train a dog not to bark at the bells.