Changing light fittings

sunnyday1234

Guys

I am going fitting a new ceiling light at the weekend, its a semi flush one and fairly light. I have just a few simple questions that i would like to clear up

1. If there are more than one neutral or live, do i just insert them both into the relevant section on the fitting ?
2. How do i know if one screw is in a ceiling joist ?

Thanks for any help

aido79

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Guys

I am going fitting a new ceiling light at the weekend, its a semi flush one and fairly light. I have just a few simple questions that i would like to clear up

1. If there are more than one neutral or live, do i just insert them both into the relevant section on the fitting ?
2. How do i know if one screw is in a ceiling joist ?

Thanks for any help

All neutrals should be put in the same terminal.
The lives are a different story. You should be able to tell from the old light which of the lives are switched and which are permanent. With the light off the permanent lives will still have voltage so use a phase tester or mulimeter to confirm this.
Take a picture of the wiring before disconnecting the old light and mark the switched lives and permanent lives.
If you use a screwdriver rather than a drill to put the screws in and it will be easy to tell if it's in a joist.
When you remove the old light try to locate a joist nearby so you have some idea where to aim your screws.

sunnyday1234

ok thanks. when i remove the old light how can i locate a joist nearby ? just screw in until i feel a bit of resistance ?

Also , should i not just have one live ?

aido79

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

ok thanks. when i remove the old light how can i locate a joist nearby ? just screw in until i feel a bit of resistance ?

Also , should i not just have one live ?

Easiest way to find a nearby joist is to put your finger in the hole where the wires come through the ceiling and feel around. If the joist is a bit further away then a piece of wire such as a clothes hanging bent at 90 degrees will help. Put it in the hole and spin it to see if it hits a joist.
Don't just start putting screws in randomly. This may make it harder when you go to put the light up.

You could have one live, two lives, three lives or four lives. You won't know until you open the old light fitting up. Be aware though if you mix up the lives it can affect other lights on the circuit in other rooms.

Feel free to post a picture of the old light and wiring or figure out how many lives and post back.

sunnyday1234

ok thanks . will be doing this at weekend so will let you know

sunnyday1234

removed the current fixing last night to take a look. THere are 3 lives coming from the ceiling and two from the light. There are 2 neutral and an earth

There is a junction box with 8 areas in it, first two are 1 live from ceiling and 1 from light, next 2 are 1 live from ceiling and 1 from light, next 2 are 1 live from ceiling and second socket empty and then the neutrals

is this normal ?

aido79

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

removed the current fixing last night to take a look. THere are 3 lives coming from the ceiling and two from the light. There are 2 neutral and an earth

There is a junction box with 8 areas in it, first two are 1 live from ceiling and 1 from light, next 2 are 1 live from ceiling and 1 from light, next 2 are 1 live from ceiling and second socket empty and then the neutrals

is this normal ?

What type of light is it?

Is it possible for you to upload a picture of it?

I'm not sure why there are 2 lives going to the light. This doesn't make sense as it means there would be a permanent live and a switched live going to the light so it would always be on.

sunnyday1234

so i have attached the pictures of the ceiling cables and of the new fitting


so i take it that i do the following :

1. connect earth from ceiling (one with no sleeve) into neutral section of block in new fitting

2. wrap the two neurtral from ceiling together and then insert into neutral section of block

3. Wrap the two live in middle together and either just leave hang or insert into a cable connector ???

4. Put the last live from the ceiling into the live section of the block in new fitting ?

is this correct ? not sure about step 4

aido79

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

so i have attached the pictures of the ceiling cables and of the new fitting


so i take it that i do the following :

1. connect earth from ceiling (one with no sleeve) into neutral section of block in new fitting

2. wrap the two neurtral from ceiling together and then insert into neutral section of block

3. Wrap the two live in middle together and either just leave hang or insert into a cable connector ???

4. Put the last live from the ceiling into the live section of the block in new fitting ?

is this correct ? not sure about step 4

No offence meant but I'm not sure if you should really be attempting this job as I am unsure if you will leave it in a safe condition. I have no doubt you can make the light work but you may unknowingly create a fire hazard or other hazard.
Two things - never connect an earth to a neutral and never leave live cables exposed.
All earths should be joined together and I am assuming the new fitting is metallic and therefore needs an earth and the old fitting is plastic and doesn't require an earth.
Neutrals should be joined together as well.
You are right about how the lives should be connected - apart from the suggestion of leaving them hanging. They should be put in a connector and taped up at the very least.

sunnyday1234

sorry , just reread my post there and its way off.

here is what i am going to do

1. take two neutrals from ceiling and put them both into neutral section of connector block in new fitting
2. take the earth (cables wthout sleeve in picture above and put them both into earth section of connector block in new fitting)
3. Put switched live into live section of new fitting connector block
4. get new small connector block and put looped live cables in this

wrap both connector blocks in tape

i saw these 2 wire connectors on you tube the other day and they looked very handy and safe

this sound ok ? should i put a sleeve on the earth cables or are they ok as is

aido79

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

sorry , just reread my post there and its way off.

here is what i am going to do

1. take two neutrals from ceiling and put them both into neutral section of connector block in new fitting
2. take the earth (cables wthout sleeve in picture above and put them both into earth section of connector block in new fitting)
3. Put switched live into live section of new fitting connector block
4. get new small connector block and put looped live cables in this

wrap both connector blocks in tape

i saw these 2 wire connectors on you tube the other day and they looked very handy and safe

this sound ok ? should i put a sleeve on the earth cables or are they ok as is

It all sounds ok in theory. The steps you have listed is the correct way to do it.

Just one tip I will give you though. Take that connector that comes with the new light off and throw it in the bin and buy a bigger connector. They're cheap and they will make your life easier when it comes to putting 2 cables in the same terminal.
It would also be best to sleeve the earths if you can.

I'd echo what aido says about binning the connector that came with the fitting and sleeving the earths. Get a connector block with 4 connectors on it.

What it looks like you have already.



What it should turn out like.

sunnyday1234

Awesome - thanks very much
Diagram really clears it up

I just noticed that the hole in the new mounting bracket is very small and the Connector block won't fit through it , is if ok to tape up the block and leave it outsude the ceiling hole and resting on top of the new fitting ?

sunnyday1234

This worked out great guys

Thanks for the help

iMarian

There are basic rules about how much current will be used in a single circuit based on the number of GPOs it feeds. To take a practical example: 20 GPOs, each rated at 10 amps.
All of the neutral wires that are connected together in the should belong to a single circuit. You can generally tell if it is a single circuit if you only have to turn off 1 breaker. If this is the case, then you should keep all the neutrals together.

http;//ndrelectric.com/category/flushmounts