4 year old and twins who are 2.5. Need help coping at the moment

Psygnosis

Hi,
Myself and my wife are looking for some help/direction/advice. As the title says we have 3 kids 4 year old and 2.5 year old twins.

I'll start by saying we are barely coping as a family. Maybe its the way we are parenting you really start questioning yourself. I think honestly we do need help.

The 4 year old has always been difficult temper wise and with his emotions. Even from a very young child we had to feed him when he was young lying down with a pillow under him as he hated to be picked up. He constantly shouts gets himself into a temper and is hard to calm down. His reactions to situations where things don't go his way are worrying.

If he does not get his own way he can go into this shouting grunting like Ahh Ahhh and he keeps going. If the twins start signing he starts shouting no at them. He takes things off them all the time. Hits them any chance he gets. Is now refusing going to bathroom on his own wants some one to stand at the door waiting. If the twins look at him he goes mad and starts shouting they are staring at me. Probably allot more I could write. We've been to the doctor twice with him (over last 2 years) to see if he needs to be assessed or we do. The doctor is very good and has a young child herself. She mentioned naughty step etc. Problem is he refuses to stay on it unless you physically hold him down. This causes the situation then to escalate out of control. On the second visit she advised the bedroom with door closed for 4 minutes and sit outside. This has worked to a certain degree he will go mad for maybe 2 minutes and then calm down, when he comes back out its like nothing has happened. It's allot better than it used to be.

We are both working parents and the 4 year old is with a child minder (with the twins) for the last 18 months, prior to this it was the creche. He is also in montesorri. I spoke to the montesorri about him before it finished up and they said he is very different from when he started as in he is a much more rounded kid.

Our child minder has worries about him also, she has 3 kids herself as is very experienced. He is a very good verbally, and can be very sweet and loving. He had a very bad day today with her. But honestly I can see it myself it has got worse. We can have a really good month and then maybe 2 weeks of hell with him.

Problem is now the twins are picking up on all his behavioral traits and we really need to do something. I'm starting to feel like a referee between them. I'm getting stressed over and today I must have put the twins on time outs 4 times today. What can we do, I'd go see someone professionally if needs be to try and get a handle on it, is there anywhere a parent can go to get advice. From my own reading I don't think its adhd aspergers but I'm not a professional.

Moonbeam

Have you spoken to the public health nurse about getting an "Assessment of needs" done?
It could help diagnose or rule out sensory issues etc

Psygnosis

Yes we have spoken to the health nurse a couple of times. But I think she thinks he was just a normal kid maybe just acting out. But whats normal. The twins where very different to him when he was there age. Much easier going. Again we have nothing to compare against. We don't have any family support, to talk whether x or y is normal. Its hard to bring family life into work and talk about it.
I guess the best way you could describe him is that he is very highly strung.
I'll give another quick example. Eating Spagball and he has red sauce on his face. I said your all messy and giggle the twins pick up on it and say. Messy in there own little words. He absolutely lost it, starts shouting and crying. When he calms down a bit he say's it's not funny the twins are laughing at me.
Our own doctor said do not go privately for an assessment as they are all to quick to put a label on a kid after a 15 minute consultation.
I'd tend to agree to a certain degree.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

My 5 year old son is often so rude to my 3 year old daughter. Like your twins, she often copies his rude behaviour , but he really is the instigator . I put it down to his jealousy of being 'displaced' by her. I suppose your son is the same ( but multiplied by 2)

They constantly argue. The last few months they have started to play together nicely but still argue all the time. It is very draining. They are both very kind to their 1 year old brother.

I was watching 'the secret life of brothers and sisters' recently and they were saying that the biggest rivalry is between siblings who are 2 years apart and that they argue on average 8 times an hour ( that made me feel better).

I don't know if your 4 year old has any special needs, but it sounds like you need to concentrate on behaviour management as some of his reactions are over the top.
I like David colemans approach, he has some good books that you could read and techniques to implement.
In the meantime some other things you might try are; you or your wife spend time with your 4 year old on his own every day, give him attention, do something he likes for a full hour with no twins- colouring, lego, playing super heroes, whatever.
Spend time together as a family, pay a cleaner to come on a Saturday if that will help you get some time together.
Get a babysitter- you and your wife need time together on your own away from the kids as it is hard. Even get the babysitter to come for an hour and bring them for a walk so you can have a cup of tea together without constant squabbling.
Make a behaviour reward chart for your 4 year old , give him a tick for when he does something kind or helpful or for when he plays nicely with his siblings. When he gets a certain amount of ticks his reward will be going somewhere special with the family like aquarium etc....

Moonbeam

Maybe he is just jealous? twins take up a lot of time and maybe if you dedicate a few minutes every day or weekend that is his time on his own with one of you?
I have 4 kids and they can be stubborn and head strong ,I find the boy a little wilder then the girls though,his emotions are behind his abilities sometimes.

Corca Baiscinn

Hi OP, you and your partner are obviously under a lot of stress and so is your little boy by the sound of things. Almost all first born's experience displacement when a sibling arrives and as an earlier poster said, in your case the little fella was displaced on the double! You all need support but your little boy does not necessarily have any "syndrome". He may be acting out as was suggested or be extra sensitive, hence the reaction to teasing re the messy face or the babies' perceived laughing at him. He may have perfectionist tendencies, hence the reaction to anything going "wrong" As far as I understand it in terms of modifying unwanted behaviour, the idea is to try as far as possible to ignore the misbehaviour and instead make a point of catching the child being good, ie "I'm really pleased with the way you helped me tidy up the toys, shared your book with the twins, stayed in your own bed all night", whatever. As another poster mentioned he also needs time on his own with each parent and so does each twinas time goes by, ie reading just him a story, not all three, taking just him to the park while the twins have their nap etc (Obviously at weekend when you are both around). Try googlng articles by John Sharry and also The Incredible Years Programme to see if it is available in your area. It's tough to be without family support with three smallies so check out parent and toddler groups or similar too. Anyone in my position whose children are long reared is at risk of coming across as a know it al or making parenting seem simple. Believe me, I know it isn't! Good luck!

unkel

My first thought was jealousy too. Quite common particularly when the child is not yet 2 when their younger sibling is born. In your case 2 siblings demanding a lot of your attention I can imagine! It's basically a form of built-in self preservation, for your son demanding attention for himself when he notices his parents have more attention for the younger siblings

I can understand your reluctance to have him assessed by a "professional", from what you are saying your son is intelligent and I would hope / think this is only a minor temporary behavioural problem

I feel it's a good idea like Corca Baiscinn suggested to make a point spending considerable 1 on 1 time with him (both you and your wife) and give him your full care and attention and see how he behaves after that. I know it's not easy, we had 3 kids in 4 years ourselves,with both of us working (and very little childcare), but I'd say it's likely all will be fine

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Psygnosis

Psygnosis wrote: »

She mentioned naughty step etc. Problem is he refuses to stay on it unless you physically hold him down.

That is very common when first implementing the step approach. You put them in it and they make a break for it or run at you.

Generally when I have seen the naughty step work it has been where the parents have implemented it consistently and were willing the first few times to be consistent and non-communicative.

Which means that when you use it you first give them a clear warning that if they do not stop the bad behavior you will be putting them on it. Low toned voice of authority - at their level - never shouting. If this does not work put them on the step you explain why they are there (coming down to their level - making eye contact - low toned authoritative but not shouty voice).

Then every time they leave the step you simply place them back _wordlessly and calmly without rewarding them with any kind of communication_ and reset the timer. And repeat as often as necessary until they relent and give in and stay there for the time they were meant to.

Then to remove them from the step you repeat the reason they were there - in the same way as above - demand (not ask for or suggest) an apology. If none is forthcoming they are back on the step. If one comes then instantly raise your tone - upbeat and friendly - hugs and kisses and a thank you for the apology - no grudges or revisiting the reason they were on the step - but straight back to fun or play or whatever they were doing before.

The first time or two they might make a break for it for an hour. Two hours. Five hours. Who knows. It will be a battle with a particularly troublesome child. So be ready for the long haul the first few times. Before they relent and do their time. But the key in my experience is to remain adamant - consistent - non-communicative - until such time as their time is done.

The consistency shows them you mean business and everything they try simply gets the same result every time. The lack of communication means you do not get drawn into an argument that only escalates things - and it feeds the consistency part - and it does not reward them with communication.

Where and when I have seen it done "right" and consistently and it has worked - it generally only has to be done a few times before the mere threat/warning of the step becomes enough to curtail most bad behavior. The majority of places I have seen it work the people using it now say "Oh we do not use the step anymore - the warning is enough now".

All that said it would probably help to work on their relationship in parallel. This means where possible playing games where they work together and even rely on each other. I wrote a bit about that here....

Hope some of that helps. Contact me anytime you like.

pwurple

That behaviour sounds very like my 3-4 year old when she had a younger baby sister she was getting to grips with.

Especially the part about tears and upset when they think someone is laughing at them. She literally did that exact same thing anytime anyone even laughed in the same room as her for about a year. And then grew out of it at age 5.

He's only 4, he's going to struggle with emotions still.

No family support at all, and 3 children under 5 sounds like a complete warzone to me. I'm surprised your marriage is in one piece!

If you can't enlist another pair of hands (au pair, creche, weekends with aunties and uncles?) then I'd say batten down the hatches and hang in there until he is 6.

How Strange

He sounds like a very typical 4 year old to me but I guess from his side of things, he got displaced twice when the twins came along. I'm guessing he got a lot less attention then if you had two babies to care for.

Personally I don't agree with the naughty step. I hate it as a concept as you're telling a child he/she is naughty. I've got a 5 and 3 year old and we've never used it as a discipline technique.

I can imagine how angry he might feel if in the spagbal incident of he felt you were all laughing at him or it's all of you against him. Perhaps he feels the twins get all of your attention so he has to act out to get some himself. It's a cycle once it starts.

David Coleman and John Sharry have great books and newspaper articles on situations such as this. John Sharry does parenting seminars as well so look up his website.