How strong are land leases

viztopia

I am looking at renting land over 5 years which may need some work. I am nervous spending money on it in year 1 and then something happening and losing it after this. Has anyone any experience of leases and how good they are. Will obviously get a solicitor involved at some stage and just looking for other peoples opinions/experience at this stage.

CHOPS01

viztopia wrote: »

I am looking at renting land over 5 years which may need some work. I am nervous spending money on it in year 1 and then something happening and losing it after this. Has anyone any experience of leases and how good they are. Will obviously get a solicitor involved at some stage and just looking for other peoples opinions/experience at this stage.

Have leased out 2 outside places for the parents at the moment on 5 year leases. Lease agreements in place. At the end of the day they are a legally binding agreement so the law is on your side. And seeing as your thinking of improvements it's unlikely your going to wreck the place so your safe

RightTurnClyde

viztopia wrote: »

I am looking at renting land over 5 years which may need some work. I am nervous spending money on it in year 1 and then something happening and losing it after this. Has anyone any experience of leases and how good they are. Will obviously get a solicitor involved at some stage and just looking for other peoples opinions/experience at this stage.

Was told by a solicitor that they aren't worth the paper they're written on. The lease/rent laws in this country are very biased towards the owner

Username John

viztopia wrote: »

I am looking at renting land over 5 years which may need some work. I am nervous spending money on it in year 1 and then something happening and losing it after this. Has anyone any experience of leases and how good they are. Will obviously get a solicitor involved at some stage and just looking for other peoples opinions/experience at this stage.

Have you answered your own question maybe?

If you are worried the guy you're going renting off might pull a fast one, then do you want to go down that road?

I know you're asking how the law would protect against this, but if it comes to it, and the landowner wants you out, even if he is 110% in the wrong, you will be eventually end up saying 'WTF did I bother?'

boat_builder

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Was told by a solicitor that they aren't worth the paper they're written on. The lease/rent laws in this country are very biased towards the owner

the opposite is true ! , the law is very much biased towards tenants in this country , granted slightly less so with commercial tenants

OP , you need to have no worries , if a proper registered lease is put in place , you have all the protections you need

freedominacup

Username John wrote: »

Have you answered your own question maybe?

If you are worried the guy you're going renting off might pull a fast one, then do you want to go down that road?

I know you're asking how the law would protect against this, but if it comes to it, and the landowner wants you out, even if he is 110% in the wrong, you will be eventually end up saying 'WTF did I bother?'

Haven't the tax rules around long term leases leveled the playing field a bit? If he breaks the lease won't ye become liable for tax on the payments he received?

whelan2

Heard of a few people waiting along time for their payments for leases. If possible get payments sorted up front. Nothing worse than stock on your land virtually for free

Sam Kade

whelan2 wrote: »

Heard of a few people waiting along time for their payments for leases. If possible get payments sorted up front. Nothing worse than stock on your land virtually for free

That's the annoying thing about leasing out land, I'll pay you when I sell the cattle, I'll pay you when I get the sfp etc any lame excuse to delay payment. It should be full payment up front. How does it work if you have land let on a long term lease and getting sfp as well, the man leasing the land has to apply for sfp then pays it back to the land owner when he receives it. It could be hard enough to get it off some of them.

whelan2

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's the annoying thing about leasing out land, I'll pay you when I sell the cattle, I'll pay you when I get the sfp etc any lame excuse to delay payment. It should be full payment up front. How does it work if you have land let on a long term lease and getting sfp as well, the man leasing the land has to apply for sfp then pays it back to the land owner when he receives it. It could be hard enough to get it off some of them.

There will be a big queue for some people's sfp money this year

Utdfan20titles

Not very strong. There usually made of paper

Username John

freedominacup wrote: »

Haven't the tax rules around long term leases leveled the playing field a bit? If he breaks the lease won't ye become liable for tax on the payments he received?

Yeah... As needs to be a 5 year lease (or longer) to be tax free... So I assume if broken half way through you could be caught for tax...

Even still - if you foresee trouble before even signing then you'd wonder if it's worth it...

boat_builder

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's the annoying thing about leasing out land, I'll pay you when I sell the cattle, I'll pay you when I get the sfp etc any lame excuse to delay payment. It should be full payment up front. How does it work if you have land let on a long term lease and getting sfp as well, the man leasing the land has to apply for sfp then pays it back to the land owner when he receives it. It could be hard enough to get it off some of them.

is that not evidence of how little consequence there is for being a delinquent tenant , its the landlord who takes the greater risk when entering into a lease , he is reliant on the tenant making good on his commitments

boat_builder

Username John wrote: »

Yeah... As needs to be a 5 year lease (or longer) to be tax free... So I assume if broken half way through you could be caught for tax...

Even still - if you foresee trouble before even signing then you'd wonder if it's worth it...

not if you manage to get in place a replacement tenant on time

Keepgrowing

If the op is concerned about a particular prospective tennant he needs to get another.

A lot of landlords look for the highest price rather than the best tenant. A check with previous landlords and a drive by their own farm will tell you volumes.

On payment up front, it's something as a tenant if walk away from. Basically at the end of year 1 you've two years rent paid, completely unreasonable. I operate a dd monthly to landlords accounts with all leased stamped

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

If the op is concerned about a particular prospective tennant he needs to get another.

A lot of landlords look for the highest price rather than the best tenant. A check with previous landlords and a drive by their own farm will tell you volumes.

On payment up front, it's something as a tenant if walk away from. Basically at the end of year 1 you've two years rent paid, completely unreasonable. I operate a dd monthly to landlords accounts with all leased stamped

Yes one of the people I heard of had a direct debit set up grand last year but this year is a different story.

boat_builder

Keepgrowing wrote: »

If the op is concerned about a particular prospective tennant he needs to get another.

A lot of landlords look for the highest price rather than the best tenant. A check with previous landlords and a drive by their own farm will tell you volumes.

On payment up front, it's something as a tenant if walk away from. Basically at the end of year 1 you've two years rent paid, completely unreasonable. I operate a dd monthly to landlords accounts with all leased stamped

there is not much stigma attached to not paying people what you owe them in this country , its usually a case of getting the least worst tenant

Username John

boat_builder wrote: »

not if you manage to get in place a replacement tenant on time

How does it work?

Let's say you sign a 5 year lease tax free... If after year 2, the lease is broken (for whatever reason)
If you get someone to cover the remaining 3 years, it's still tax free?
Is that right?

Sam Kade

Keepgrowing wrote: »

If the op is concerned about a particular prospective tennant he needs to get another.

A lot of landlords look for the highest price rather than the best tenant. A check with previous landlords and a drive by their own farm will tell you volumes.

On payment up front, it's something as a tenant if walk away from. Basically at the end of year 1 you've two years rent paid, completely unreasonable. I operate a dd monthly to landlords accounts with all leased stamped

That's fair enough but there are plenty gangsters out there that will pay the first year and half paying then and paying in dribs and drabs.

whelan2

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's fair enough but there are plenty gangsters out there that will pay the first year and half paying then and paying in drink and drabs.

Guinness ?

boat_builder

Username John wrote: »

How does it work?

Let's say you sign a 5 year lease tax free... If after year 2, the lease is broken (for whatever reason)
If you get someone to cover the remaining 3 years, it's still tax free?
Is that right?

not sure about that situation but say you have a ten year lease but with a break clause after five years , if the tenant chooses to leave , provided you replace them and the land is not idle for a year , you are still in compliance with the tax free lease

Sam Kade

whelan2 wrote: »

Guinness ?

You weren't supposed to see that It's the phone and the eyesight.

mf240

I wouldnt take land of a man/woman if i thought i couldnt trust them.

Not worth the hassle.

boat_builder

mf240 wrote: »

I wouldnt take land of a man/woman if i thought i couldnt trust them.

Not worth the hassle.

what power has the landlord to do harm ?

the tenant can wreck the place or refuse to pay and even the landlord manages to evict , he sure as hell wont get full compensation

Mrs cockett

Can I get opinions on this please, my brother has a ten year lease on a place, 4 years in the wife of lessor has been granted said place in a divorce settlement. She is saying she will sell. Where does my brother stand in all this.

freedominacup

Mrs cockett wrote: »

Can I get opinions on this please, my brother has a ten year lease on a place, 4 years in the wife of lessor has been granted said place in a divorce settlement. She is saying she will sell. Where does my brother stand in all this.

As a sitting tenant with a paid up lease unless some condition of the lease states something else. There could be taxation issues for the landlord if the lease is broken.

pedigree 6

I know of a place here that was sold in the 2nd year of a 10 year lease.
Sorry I don't know the monetary details.

But just to say that it went to public auction and the renter did buy a parcel of it.

So not sure if it does mean anything or not?

Keepgrowing

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's the annoying thing about leasing out land, I'll pay you when I sell the cattle, I'll pay you when I get the sfp etc any lame excuse to delay payment. It should be full payment up front. How does it work if you have land let on a long term lease and getting sfp as well, the man leasing the land has to apply for sfp then pays it back to the land owner when he receives it. It could be hard enough to get it off some of them.

You've the wrong tenant

Monthly direct debit

Mrs cockett

freedominacup wrote: »

As a sitting tenant with a paid up lease unless some condition of the lease states something else. There could be taxation issues for the landlord if the lease is broken.

His worry is that he has a lease signed by say John Smith, the land is now owned by Mary Smith He has no lease with Mary Smith, and she wants to sell the land.

Luckysasha

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Was told by a solicitor that they aren't worth the paper they're written on. The lease/rent laws in this country are very biased towards the owner

Not in our case. We have a tenant renting land from us the last six years. We decided to get rid of him this year for unpaid rent issues and unpaid utility bills and went to a solicitor for the legalities. Basically he paid his rent in December every year for the previous 12 months but because the lease we had signed originally was only a 5 year lease and this is year six the tenant is entitled by law to stay until his next payment date which is December '17. It's called "Gale day law". So we have a tenant on our land who owes us rent for 2016 plus a €2500 water bill and he is entitled by law to use our land for another 12 months. The only solution to getting the unpaid monies is to take a civil case against him. So just be careful what lease you sign in to with a tenant

Sam Kade

Keepgrowing wrote: »

You've the wrong tenant

Monthly direct debit

I don't have a tenant direct debit wouldn't be bomb proof either as it can be easily canceled, it would be ideal for both parties though if there was no messing.

Sam Kade

Luckysasha wrote: »

Not in our case. We have a tenant renting land from us the last six years. We decided to get rid of him this year for unpaid rent issues and unpaid utility bills and went to a solicitor for the legalities. Basically he paid his rent in December every year for the previous 12 months but because the lease we had signed originally was only a 5 year lease and this is year six the tenant is entitled by law to stay until his next payment date which is December '17. It's called "Gale day law". So we have a tenant on our land who owes us rent for 2016 plus a €2500 water bill and he is entitled by law to use our land for another 12 months. The only solution to getting the unpaid monies is to take a civil case against him. So just be careful what lease you sign in to with a tenant

But if the term of the lease was 5 years what makes him entitled to an extra year? Gale day is the day rent is due.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

As a sitting tenant with a paid up lease unless some condition of the lease states something else. There could be taxation issues for the landlord if the lease is broken.

On a longterm lease, say like greenfields in KK... Is there an agreement in place if a lease is broken to refund/compensate the leaser?
The farm here took back land i hand last year, one was kicked out for breaking term of lease sub-contracting it out and the other was paid ALOT of money and given ownership of the main yard/house to simply walk away.

Luckysasha

Sam Kade wrote: »

But if the term of the lease was 5 years what makes him entitled to an extra year? Gale day is the day rent is due.

Because we tried to serve him notice to quit after gale day 2016. So we must give him until the next gale date (Dec '17) before we can serve him with one months notice to quit. So he has paid nothing for 2016 and an overdue water bill of €2500 and now he basically has free use of the land for another 12 months

Sam Kade

Luckysasha wrote: »

Because we tried to serve him notice to quit after gale day 2016. So we must give him until the next gale date (Dec '17) before we can serve him with one months notice to quit. So he has paid nothing for 2016 and an overdue water bill of €2500 and now he basically has free use of the land for another 12 months

That's fairly sickening.

Reggie.

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's fairly sickening.

Law is very strange at times

Luckysasha

It sure is. Also pretty annoying when the tenant that owes you the money is crying poverty yet he has a wrapper, a round baler. a fusion baler / wrapper, rake and a mower parked in our sheds that I see every time I bring the dog for a walk.

Reggie.

Luckysasha wrote: »

It sure is. Also pretty annoying when the tenant that owes you the money is crying poverty yet he has a wrapper, a round baler. a fusion baler / wrapper, rake and a mower parked in our sheds that I see every time I bring the dog for a walk.

Are they his or is he letting someone else use the sheds

Waffletraktor

Luckysasha wrote: »

It sure is. Also pretty annoying when the tenant that owes you the money is crying poverty yet he has a wrapper, a round baler. a fusion baler / wrapper, rake and a mower parked in our sheds that I see every time I bring the dog for a walk.

Tell him in a calm and firm manner to remove them within a week as you saw suspicious people hanging around and you don't feel safe with valuable machine around,and inform him you are contacting firms engaged in debt recovery. Your being taken as a soft touch.

Luckysasha

Reggie. wrote: »

Are they his or is he letting someone else use the sheds

There his alright. He does a fair bit of contracting in the summer so I know there his machines.

ganmo

Luckysasha wrote: »

It sure is. Also pretty annoying when the tenant that owes you the money is crying poverty yet he has a wrapper, a round baler. a fusion baler / wrapper, rake and a mower parked in our sheds that I see every time I bring the dog for a walk.

Take a few pics of the equipment for the civil case.

And tear whoever wrote the lease a new one

barnaman

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1984/act/4/section/3/enacted/en/html

The law for those interested.

Also sue him for the money owed.