HKC Key fob - Poor design

r3nu4l

So I got my HKC system installed today and to be honest didn't do any research on the key fobs because I assumed that at the very least, the fobs would have recessed buttons, but preferably a button cover but no...

The buttons are not recessed and stick out greatly, meaning that if I put this fob in my pocket with my keys, then at some stage when I'm in the house, I'm likely to activate the alarm, or worse still, the panic button...

Anyone else find this? Has this happened to anyone?
Is it possible to get generic fobs and have them programmed?

fred funk }{

The panic button is recessed. You can set the fob up so that you need to enter your code on it in order to operate it.

r3nu4l

fred funk }{ wrote: »

The panic button is recessed. You can set the fob up so that you need to enter your code on it in order to operate it.

That's still not good enough for a panic button though. It's massive and could easily be set off in my pockets during the day. So, while it's big for obvious reasons, it just adds to the possibility of setting off the alarm...

What is the point of having to enter your code on a panic button, the whole purpose of it is that it should be quick and easy to arm.

A simple redesign to make it less bulky and add a sliding/foldback cover is needed if this thing is to be useful. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

So, to my question, is it possible to by a generic fob with a cover or better recessed buttons and program that?

fred funk }{

r3nu4l wrote: »

That's still not good enough for a panic button though. It's massive and could easily be set off in my pockets during the day. So, while it's big for obvious reasons, it just adds to the possibility of setting off the alarm...

What is the point of having to enter your code on a panic button, the whole purpose of it is that it should be quick and easy to arm.

A simple redesign to make it less bulky and add a sliding/foldback cover is needed if this thing is to be useful. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

So, to my question, is it possible to by a generic fob with a cover or better recessed buttons and program that?

The code is used for arming/disarming. There's also a small delay on the panic before it will transmit which can help false activations.

I have a lot of those fobs installed and haven't had any complaints of false activations.

You can get a universal receiver and fob but it will be pricy and I haven't yet seen a fob that has a slide across cover like you suggested.

retepnosnikta

r3nu4l wrote: »

That's still not good enough for a panic button though. It's massive and could easily be set off in my pockets during the day. So, while it's big for obvious reasons, it just adds to the possibility of setting off the alarm...

What is the point of having to enter your code on a panic button, the whole purpose of it is that it should be quick and easy to arm.

A simple redesign to make it less bulky and add a sliding/foldback cover is needed if this thing is to be useful. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

So, to my question, is it possible to by a generic fob with a cover or better recessed buttons and program that?

Interesting feedback from a customer's viewpoint. The manufacturers should be made aware of these reservations. After all they'll never know if they're not told about things like this.

KoolKid

An option to programme the PA as double push would be a good idea IMO. Many other manufacturers have this on their keyfobs.

stuartkee

r3nu4l wrote: »

fred funk }{ wrote: »

The panic button is recessed. You can set the fob up so that you need to enter your code on it in order to operate it.

That's still not good enough for a panic button though. It's massive and could easily be set off in my pockets during the day. So, while it's big for obvious reasons, it just adds to the possibility of setting off the alarm...

What is the point of having to enter your code on a panic button, the whole purpose of it is that it should be quick and easy to arm.

A simple redesign to make it less bulky and add a sliding/foldback cover is needed if this thing is to be useful. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

So, to my question, is it possible to by a generic fob with a cover or better recessed buttons and program that?

There is a 2 second press delay on the Duress button.This is by default and can be changed by the installer. Hundreds of Key fobs installed never had an issue.

KoolKid

In comparison to some other types HKCs is a little awkward & bulky. Many people I've come across just leave them at home.

GSD


Visonic



Siemens/Vanderbilt

kub

r3nu4l wrote: »

So I got my HKC system installed today and to be honest didn't do any research on the key fobs because I assumed that at the very least, the fobs would have recessed buttons, but preferably a button cover but no...

The buttons are not recessed and stick out greatly, meaning that if I put this fob in my pocket with my keys, then at some stage when I'm in the house, I'm likely to activate the alarm, or worse still, the panic button...

Anyone else find this? Has this happened to anyone?
Is it possible to get generic fobs and have them programmed?

Typical Irish reaction to a moan, tell everyone except who it should be directed at. You remind me of someone in a restaurant moaning to your fellow diners about your food, then when the waiter asks is every ok, you smile and say yes.

Here is HKC's contact details, i am sure they would be delighted to hear from you.
http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/contact/#.V5O4ojUxOJ8

Oh and i have hundreds of these with my clients as well and i never have had a complaint. Well not to my face anyway.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

In comparison to some other types HKCs is a little awkward & bulky. Many people I've come across just leave them at home.

GSD


Visonic



Siemens/Vanderbilt

From a security point of view and if any of those were remotes for automatic gates, they are ideal. But convenience and proper security do not go together. I think the HKC fob beats all those hands down for security as it is the only one which has an option that a code could be programmed onto.
Therefore a lot less stress for all concerned if fobs or a set of keys with a fob ( which unfortunately a lot of people have a habit of doing ) are lost.

KoolKid

The fob is on with your house keys. You treat them both with the same respect. If your house keys fall into the wrong hands you change the locks. If you lose or mislay your key fob its easily deleted from the system.
With SPC panels there are numerous other features that can be added to make the fob more secure, as I'm sure your are aware of.
I have come across a lot of HKC fobs and most reactions are the same as the OPs. They are bulky, awkward, I don't use it, its left in the drawer. Not one person I've come across bothers with fiddling with buttons to enter the code. Sure using the keypad would be easier.

fred funk }{

KoolKid wrote: »

The fob is on with your house keys. You treat them both with the same respect. If your house keys fall into the wrong hands you change the locks. If you lose or mislay your key fob its easily deleted from the system.
With SPC panels there are numerous other features that can be added to make the fob more secure, as I'm sure your are aware of. I have come across a lot of HKC fobs and most reactions are the same as the OPs. They are bulky, awkward, I don't use it, its left in the drawer. Not one person I've come across bothers with fiddling with buttons to enter the code. Sure using the keypad would be easier.

LOL.....Yeah, sure you have

KoolKid

Good answer, very nice.
What's it about HKC users, they just can't take any criticism.?
Yet at the trade counters they have loads to say..

judge30

I think that this is a valid point to the extent that a double push could be an addition to a panic button but at the same time if differs for each customer ,most people i given the key fob are generally happy with it ,most have it on there car keys and don't have there keys in there pocket when at home or leave it beside they're bedside locker,if you want it for an panic button for personal security you could put on a lanyard and keep it around your neck.i don't think a cover would be the solution though prob more of a hindrance ,I think it comes to personal preference and should tell the installer your needs beforehand to avoid disappointment ,personally I have never had an issue.

r3nu4l

stuartkee wrote: »

There is a 2 second press delay on the Duress button.This is by default and can be changed by the installer. Hundreds of Key fobs installed never had an issue.

So I was wondering if it was 'just me' and have spoken to my Dad and brother-in-law (both have HKC). My Dad had nothing to say because he never uses the fob and it sits in a drawer in his house, so pointless in him having it I suppose. My brother-in-law though has accidentally armed the system a few times and has also managed to set off the panic button while doing some DIY in the house. He has stopped using his.

As I said earlier, I accidentally open and close my gates with my gate fob at least three times a week, so I can see my HKC fob being an issue. My previous gate fob had a sliding cover on it and recessed buttons under the slider so that was great, wish I had something similar for my gates still. Anyway.

kub wrote: »

Typical Irish reaction to a moan,

Lol, Typical Irish reaction to say 'typical Irish' about something.:p We're a great little country. Thanks for the contact details (sincerely, not being sarcastic there), although, I do of course have them. I will be providing feedback because unlike most 'typical Irish' , I do that. I did also tell my installer that they were next to useless and I was disappointed. I also asked if there were alternatives, so yeah, you just carry on with your generalizations and assumptions there, while knowing absolutely nothing about me... Truly astounding!

My reason for posting here was to moan (of course) about them but also to gather opinion and experience, as I've done in real life with my Dad and BIL. My letter of complaint won't be a moan either (that's for the internet)

For anyone who has never seen a button fob with a sliding cover, just look here (Amazon UK link). I will be sending this link to HKC too.

By the way, I've nothing against HKC, I went with them because it seemed to be the most appropriate for my needs right now and I'm very happy with the system overall but the fobs are a major disappointment and had I done my research more thoroughly on the fobs, I probably wouldn't have gone with HKC based on the poor fob design. Regardless of what anyone thinks, there is no need for a fob to be that bulky, whatever about anything else.

kub

Are you seriously suggesting that you would have chosen your security system based on fobs?

Seems very petty to me, sorry.

r3nu4l

kub wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that you would have chosen your security system based on fobs?

Seems very petty to me, sorry.

I would have reconsidered yes. Petty or not, that's how it is and I honestly don't care a jot if you or anyone else thinks it's petty, so no offence taken . Not a jibe at you, just how it is.

To explain my way of thinking (not that I care if you care or not but just to explain), I didn't see much between HKC and other systems and chose it because it's Irish, supplying jobs in Ireland (direct and indirect). The crap fobs though..., honestly, yes, I'd have strongly reconsidered. You live, you learn. I will be providing feedback directly to HKC because the fobs are now completely useless to me, I may as well not have them and that's not what I was looking for at all. Mine is in a drawer in the house too (just like my old man but for different reasons). Pointless.

fred funk }{

r3nu4l wrote: »

I would have reconsidered yes. Petty or not, that's how it is and I honestly don't care a jot if you or anyone else thinks it's petty, so no offence taken . Not a jibe at you, just how it is.

To explain my way of thinking (not that I care if you care or not but just to explain), I didn't see much between HKC and other systems and chose it because it's Irish, supplying jobs in Ireland (direct and indirect). The crap fobs though..., honestly, yes, I'd have strongly reconsidered. You live, you learn. I will be providing feedback directly to HKC because the fobs are now completely useless to me, I may as well not have them and that's not what I was looking for at all. Mine is in a drawer in the house too (just like my old man but for different reasons). Pointless.

Genuinely, it's like driving a Dacia over an Audi because it has a slide across flap on the keyring. It really is that bonkers.

r3nu4l

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Genuinely, it's like driving a Dacia over an Audi because it has a slide across flap on the keyring. It really is that bonkers.

And I don't really care if that's how bonkers it is, the fob is still poorly designed. End of story really, regardless of whether I'd stick with hkc or go elsewhere because of it.

KoolKid

r3nu4l wrote: »

And I don't really care if that's how bonkers it is, the fob is still poorly designed. End of story really, regardless of whether I'd stick with hkc or go elsewhere because of it.

This is the device that you are going to be using all the time to control your alarm. It's probably going to be getting used more than the keypad.
I can't understand why anyone would think it's bonkers or petty for you to want that right.
Your story is the same as what I find from many people. It's in the drawer....
Unfortunately, I'd imagine the reaction from HKC will probably be the same as what you are getting here. They don't like any criticism of anything.

retepnosnikta

In all walks of life the customer is king. Product development is driven by customer desire. It's only a fool that would ignore this. The customer has spoken and has stated they are not happy with the fob. Let the manufacturer sit up and take note.

KoolKid

You would think so wouldn't you.
However from my point of view in the industry this is how it works here.
To HKC the installer is the customer.
There are a lot of HKC installers who use nothing else and know nothing else.
Therefore they don't want to hear your complaints and don't won't to acknowledge any problems with the product.
They continue to buy HKC and as the examples earlier they will moan about the company at the trade counters around the country, but they won't complain to HKC or they won't let it be known and shop with their feet.
So, from HKCs point of view, their goods are selling, and their customers are still going to buy as thats all many of them know. There is a price increase pending, so we can expect more complaints at the trade counters about them but that's about it.

kub

retepnosnikta wrote: »

In all walks of life the customer is king. Product development is driven by customer desire. It's only a fool that would ignore this. The customer has spoken and has stated they are not happy with the fob. Let the manufacturer sit up and take note.

As the old saying goes, you can't please all the people all of the time. Of course not everyone is the same, I have never heard one of my customers moaning about the HKC fob, neverlone starting a thread on something so farcical. Not to mention the OP stating he would have gone with another manufacturers equipment based on a fob.
I really can't see the manufucturer being too bothered about this.

r3nu4l

kub wrote: »

I really can't see the manufucturer being too bothered about this.

Me neither and that's unfortunate but I'll still make my point known to them, for them to ignore, just like all manufacturers who have gotten too big for their boots.

Funny thing is, I'd never have thought for a minute that there would be fanboi-ism in an industry like this, I thought that was for the kids who are all XBox v PS4 v Nintendo v PC or Apple v Samsung. Seems like fanbois are everywhere!

KoolKid

For me, being in the industry, I find this strange.
An awful lot of people ask me to see the keypads when I do a survey.
If the look and feel of this is a big deal why shouldn't a keyfob be?
Even if not asked I would send out data sheets with all design proposals showing these type of devices etc.
I'd agree not every device is going to suit every person,what amazes me is the way people band together & get so up in arms just because someone offers some constructive criticism of something.
I work closely with the manufacturer's we use the most. I would happily pass on comments like this. If it comes from installers that are buying the product most (Not All)will take notice. I have been involved in some major implementations/changes in Siemens & GSD Products.