Honours Irish in 1 year????

Fergus21

Hi everyone,

Looking for some advise please.

I'm a stay at home mom with 3 young children. I've made a decision that I'd love to go on for primary school teaching. I sat the leaving in 1995 so it's 21 years since I've last studied Irish. I'd have very basis Irish. I have all the other requirements to qualify for the Hibernian home study course except for honours Irish.

Am I completely nuts thinking I can achieve this is one academic year?

I can go to night classes, and also get extra grinds if needs be. I'm also open to going to the Gaeltacht for a week over either mid term or Easter.

Also can anybody recommend a few books on grammar and easy reading that I can get started on?

Any advise greatly appreciated.

Thanks

everesteduc

Lots of people go back and do the honours Irish in one year for primary teaching. If you are in Dublin, places like the Institute of Education or Ashfield College run special courses for mature students looking for the Irish grade to be primary teachers. Totally possible for you to do it.

You can get into the swing of things by looking at the 20 sraiths online for the oral Irish. The oral is worth 40%.

Plus from 2017 it will be 50% and not 55% you need in the exam to satisfy the primary teaching requirement.

Look at Ros na Run on TG4. Think it's back in September. Listen to RnaG.

spurious

In Dublin, there are also night classes in the ETB owned Plunket College - €360 for the year, three hours per week. Substantially cheaper than the private businesses. Their Irish class is long established and very successful.

You could study yourself with occasional grinds, but it would be quite difficult.

Fergus21

Thanks you both everesteduc and Spurious for your responses, and making me feel that this isn't a crazy thing to do.
I'm in cork and the college of commerce have a night class for 450 for the year, so I think I'm going to enrol tomorrow as there'll be no going back then😀

I'll keep an eye on TG4 and start watching that program thanks.

Corca Baiscinn

Hi OP,
I'm not at all trying to put you off but before you put in all that effort this coming year, you need to realise that getting accepted on the course is just the first step. Once you get in you will be studying irish with a view to teaching it, including fairly early on during teaching practice. So you need to plan to become fluent and competent, not just to scrape by. The LC part should be ok especially because of the heavy Oral element and the possibility of learning off useful nathanna etc for essays. However, the Irish element of the Hibernia course is challenging so do your utmost to take it seriously this year. I know you will be trying to fit study around your family but listen to radio na g, watch tg4, download podcasts for listening to while you push the buggy, go supermarket-shopping, commute to work, whateve,r and yes, you will need to study grammar especially verbs and tenses! Good Luck!

Fergus21

Hi Corca Baiscinn, thank you being so honest. Believe me I'm going into this with my eyes wide open, and if I do find it all to challenging then at least I'll be competent enough to be able to help my kids with their homework.

everesteduc

As an alternative to the Leaving Cert, you could look at TEG http://www.teg.ie/faqs.150.html

Fergus21

Hi everesteduc, thank you so much, I didn't realise that there was an alternative. I'm after doing a lot of looking at this this morning and I've made a few phone calls. I think that this approach will suit me much better. Even if it takes me 2 years to get the grades that I require for primary school teaching at least I should have a good level of Irish after these classes. Rather than just going to do the LC and on,y learning what needs to be done.

I feel much more comfortable with this. I was having a little panic about all the work that would need to be done for the LC.

The timing will actually work out better for me as well. If this takes me 2 years then by the time I'll be properly ready for the Hibernian course my youngest will be started play school so I'll have a bit more time to myself for study.

Thank you all very much for the advise and tips it's very much appreciated.

spurious

You might be surprised how much goes in just listening to the likes of RnaG in the background.
Good luck with it.

everesteduc

That's great. I haven't heard anything else about TEG. Best of luck with it.

spurious

You will need TEG Level B2 for teaching. I think it's probably slightly higher than LC Honours standard, but that's not a bad thing if you are going to be responsible for the Irish of classes of kids. It's also a different kind of course, less hung up on texts and more on reading, writing, listening and speaking.

The B2 is a language level, not a grade.
This is a description of B2 in the Eureopean frameworrk:
B2 – Vantage

Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in his/her field of specialization. Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party. Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options.

pandoraj09

PM sent to you OP

JesusRef

Fergus21 wrote: »

Thanks you both everesteduc and Spurious for your responses, and making me feel that this isn't a crazy thing to do.
I'm in cork and the college of commerce have a night class for 450 for the year, so I think I'm going to enrol tomorrow as there'll be no going back then��

I'll keep an eye on TG4 and start watching that program thanks.

Hi Fergus,

I am in almost exactly the same position as you - the opportunity has come about to go back to education and change careers so I have decided to give primary school teaching a go. I did ordinary level Irish in 1997...

it is very hard to find anywhere in Cork that offers just leaving cert irish alone, did you find an evening course in the college of commerce? and also how has applying for the TEG course worked out for you?

Fergus21

Hi jesusref,

I've decided to go to the college of commerce. After doing plenty of research it seems like it is more feasible to do the honours Irish in one year, with plenty of hard work.

I know someone who did it in the college of commerce last year but she is on holidays at the moment so I'm hoping to get plenty of info next week when she gets home.

The course is every Wednesday evening from 5.30-8.30 and costs 450 for the year. Start date is Wednesday 28 September. There will also be another approx 120 to register for the exam in January.

I'm planning on doing a private grind once a week and twice a week after Easter if needed.

I'm listening to radio and TG4 to try get a few words before starting.

Looks like you and me will be in pretty much the same boat, I did the leaving in 1995, at ,east you have the added advantage that you sat the Irish ordinary paper. I didn't even do that.

My dad is also fluent Irish so I'll have a great resource there.

Let me know if you decide to go ahead with COfC as it'd be really good to know someone on the course before it starts.

pandoraj09

Guys,
Your best course of action is to find a teacher who is experienced correcting and examining LCHL Irish and go to one on one classes. The Oral part of the exam is worth 40%. You need to be speaking Irish. In these class situations its hard to speak up as you will be afraid you will be making a mistake. I would love to help you both but I'm in Dublin. The course is doable in a year but you are looking to get an Honour. Your money is best spent on private grinds with a teacher you are comfortable with who has the requirements listed above. I have come across many adults who have gone to classes sometimes 3 hours a week and who can't hold a conversation in Irish as they've listened a lot in class but rarely spoken. They do the exam and get a D. I'm happy to PM you both what you need to focus on in order of importance and recommend some books but the experienced tutor is what you need. Also, start now, not in September. You don't have a year to cover the course. The Oral is in 9 months time. Get the poetry reading done asap. Go to examinations.ie and print off the sraith pictiúr for 2017. These are 20 picture sequences you need to be able to tell the story of. Start on them. The examiner picks one of them and telling the story is worth 80 marks. A lot of marks therefore a lot of time needs to be spent on these. You need to be able to chat about your area, yourself, family, why you are back doing the LC. Start on that in your classes. Look up the novel An Triail online. Read an English translation so at least you have the facts of the story before you start on the characters etc for the exam. A lot of the above you can start on this week....More advice available if you want it....

Fergus21

Hi pandoraj09

Did you get the PM I sent you the other day???

Thank you so much for the advise. I'll get cracking on all of the above ASAP. I'll also try my hardest to find a tutor before I make the final decision on college of commerce as I haven't registered yet.

So from your experience the private grind is better???? What about doing a combination like I had planned? 3 hours a week in class & 1 to 2 hours with private tutor. Also hoping to manage 10-15 hours study a week.

Also I'd be delighted if you could recommend some books etc to get stated on. I've just order gramadach Gan stór.

JesusRef

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Guys,
Your best course of action is to find a teacher who is experienced correcting and examining LCHL Irish and go to one on one classes. The Oral part of the exam is worth 40%. You need to be speaking Irish. In these class situations its hard to speak up as you will be afraid you will be making a mistake. I would love to help you both but I'm in Dublin. The course is doable in a year but you are looking to get an Honour. Your money is best spent on private grinds with a teacher you are comfortable with who has the requirements listed above. I have come across many adults who have gone to classes sometimes 3 hours a week and who can't hold a conversation in Irish as they've listened a lot in class but rarely spoken. They do the exam and get a D. I'm happy to PM you both what you need to focus on in order of importance and recommend some books but the experienced tutor is what you need. Also, start now, not in September. You don't have a year to cover the course. The Oral is in 9 months time. Get the poetry reading done asap. Go to examinations.ie and print off the sraith pictiúr for 2017. These are 20 picture sequences you need to be able to tell the story of. Start on them. The examiner picks one of them and telling the story is worth 80 marks. A lot of marks therefore a lot of time needs to be spent on these. You need to be able to chat about your area, yourself, family, why you are back doing the LC. Start on that in your classes. Look up the novel An Triail online. Read an English translation so at least you have the facts of the story before you start on the characters etc for the exam. A lot of the above you can start on this week....More advice available if you want it....

Hi pandoraj09,

thanks for all the advice above, any advice you could send me by PM would be greatly appreciated - thanks so much!

JesusRef

Fergus21 wrote: »

Hi jesusref,

I've decided to go to the college of commerce. After doing plenty of research it seems like it is more feasible to do the honours Irish in one year, with plenty of hard work.

I know someone who did it in the college of commerce last year but she is on holidays at the moment so I'm hoping to get plenty of info next week when she gets home.

The course is every Wednesday evening from 5.30-8.30 and costs 450 for the year. Start date is Wednesday 28 September. There will also be another approx 120 to register for the exam in January.

I'm planning on doing a private grind once a week and twice a week after Easter if needed.

I'm listening to radio and TG4 to try get a few words before starting.

Looks like you and me will be in pretty much the same boat, I did the leaving in 1995, at ,east you have the added advantage that you sat the Irish ordinary paper. I didn't even do that.

My dad is also fluent Irish so I'll have a great resource there.

Let me know if you decide to go ahead with COfC as it'd be really good to know someone on the course before it starts.

my initial thoughts were to find a class and get a weekly grind as you say, my thoughts now are that I am leaning to the COfC as I will get it completed in a year but I will try to find out as much as I can about both options.

even the thought has my nerves wrecked! nice to hear from someone who is considering the same as me

Fergus21

pandoraj09 wrote: »

PM sent to you OP

JesusRef wrote: »

my initial thoughts were to find a class and get a weekly grind as you say, my thoughts now are that I am leaning to the COfC as I will get it completed in a year but I will try to find out as much as I can about both options.

even the thought has my nerves wrecked! nice to hear from someone who is considering the same as me

The more people o talk to the more confused I'm getting😳😳 I just rang my sister in law as she is a secondary school teacher to ask her did she know anyone already teaching honours Irish, and she reckons I'm absolutely nuts to be even thinking about this because she reckons the cost if it is crazy and then there's not enough jobs out there for all the qualified teachers as it is. She also reckons that the Hibernian course isn't as recognised as the MI qualification.

But from the research I've done the Hibernian is very well recognised now, maybe not 10 years ago!!!!

Sorry for the rant but my head is melted.

JesusRef

Fergus21 wrote: »

The more people o talk to the more confused I'm getting���� I just rang my sister in law as she is a secondary school teacher to ask her did she know anyone already teaching honours Irish, and she reckons I'm absolutely nuts to be even thinking about this because she reckons the cost if it is crazy and then there's not enough jobs out there for all the qualified teachers as it is. She also reckons that the Hibernian course isn't as recognised as the MI qualification.

But from the research I've done the Hibernian is very well recognised now, maybe not 10 years ago!!!!

Sorry for the rant but my head is melted.

I know someone who has just finished the Hibernia course, anyone she is in contact from her class has secured a teaching place for next year, and she had a choice of places, she reckons that her previous work and life experience (she is in her late 30's) stood to her and feels it was and advantage over other less experienced candidates. - but there is also someone in her class who cant find anything but my friend isn't really in touch with her so doesn't know the ins and outs of what's going on.
I also know someone who completed the course 10 years ago - she listened to the usual - schools wont touch you, they will go with the traditional institutions first - she got a job in a gealscoil in Dublin straight away and is still there.
I suppose there are no guarantees in life, there is supposedly only jobs for 70% of graduates over the next few years - even with increased numbers of children coming into the system.. I read somewhere that a lot of teachers who availed of free education in the 70's are now nearing retirement but their retirement could be factored into the figure above, so I don't know if that will create more jobs or not.
I know what it is, subbing in different locations an uncertain future, but I have seen it work out for people recently too.

Fergus21

JesusRef wrote: »

I know someone who has just finished the Hibernia course, anyone she is in contact from her class has secured a teaching place for next year, and she had a choice of places, she reckons that her previous work and life experience (she is in her late 30's) stood to her and feels it was and advantage over other less experienced candidates. - but there is also someone in her class who cant find anything but my friend isn't really in touch with her so doesn't know the ins and outs of what's going on.
I also know someone who completed the course 10 years ago - she listened to the usual - schools wont touch you, they will go with the traditional institutions first - she got a job in a gealscoil in Dublin straight away and is still there.
I suppose there are no guarantees in life, there is supposedly only jobs for 70% of graduates over the next few years - even with increased numbers of children coming into the system.. I read somewhere that a lot of teachers who availed of free education in the 70's are now nearing retirement but their retirement could be factored into the figure above, so I don't know if that will create more jobs or not.
I know what it is, subbing in different locations an uncertain future, but I have seen it work out for people recently too.

Thanks for that makes me feel a bit better. I just have to stop listening to the nay Sayers and get on with what I want to do myself!!! I'm thinking of our future as a family and what will work best for us. I've 3 young children and don't want to miss out any of it so I've no intentions of ever going back to 9-5.

My cousin did the Hibernian 10 years ago when she was in her early 30's and has never regretted a day of it.

JesusRef

Fergus21 wrote: »

Thanks for that makes me feel a bit better. I just have to stop listening to the nay Sayers and get on with what I want to do myself!!! I'm thinking of our future as a family and what will work best for us. I've 3 young children and don't want to miss out any of it so I've no intentions of ever going back to 9-5.

My cousin did the Hibernian 10 years ago when she was in her early 30's and has never regretted a day of it.

You hear the good stories and you hear the bad stories and it also depends on the personal circumstances of the individual.

If I was to quit a good secure job and steady income to try and become a primary school teacher at this point then I probably wouldn't do it.

if I try this and it doesn't work out, I will do something else - sure it will be a disappointment but it wont be the end of the world, but I will be busy with kids, busy with life, things will move on, its not a huge financial gamble or anything.

this is how I convince myself its worth doing, but for someone with different circumstances it might be a much bigger gamble and not worth the risk

Corca Baiscinn

Hi Guys, good advice from Pandoraj re starting now rather than waiting til September.. Another idea to get you into the Gaelge zone is to stick post-it notes up absolutely everywhere with vocabulary and phrases in bright marker. Also talk to yourself in Irish as you go about different tasks, "Tá sé in am dul a chodladh", "Tá mé ag scuabadh an urláir", "Ta tart orm" etc. In fact once you get that grammar book or if you already remember your verbs, talk to yourself in different tenses, as the conversation part of the oral can ask what you did yest/ at the weekend, what you do every day/ weekend or what you will do tomorrow/next weekend/summer etc! So "Chuaigh me go dtí an siopa agus cheannaigh mé etc, téim go dtí an siopa agus ceannaim, rachaidh mé go dtí an siopa agus ceannoidh mé etc I think the class is a good idea combined with a one on one grind. Unfortunately there is a big big jump in standard between O level and H Level Irish so ye do have a mountain to climb , but on the other hand people learn languages all the time successfully as adults and 40% for the Oral means less stress on the literature and essays/comprehensions. examinations.ie is a good idea as Pandoraj said, note that the comprehensions usually cover something that has been in the news, for example this year it was the Olympics and Climate Change so don't detach from the modern world in your pursuit of LC Gaeilge!

dory

Don't listen to the people who say Hibernia isn't as recognised. Some people will always look down on online courses but they're living in the dark ages. Lots of very good courses happen online these days, including Hibernia. Many people have gotten jobs from it.

I've tutored a few people who have done that course in CCoC. It has a HUGE drop out rate. The vast majority (and I mean the vast) don't finish it. It's 3 hours of mostly writing translations. The teacher translates the book to the students. Then an hour of a listening comprehension. Very disheartening and most leave. The people I tutor say it's the ones with the grinds teachers who stick with it as they're not as lost as the others. They also do the sraith - hand out notes and test you the following week - don't expect your own ability to form sentences to improve! This was the feedback from the 2014-15 class, things might have changed. But with the pressure to get the course done and only 3 hours a week I'm not surprised it's rushed. It's be grand to do this in combination with grinds as at least it's another 3 hours exposure to the course/ language and you can meet people in the same boat.

I would say take on all the advice above, listen and read as much as you can. My students find reading children's books helpful. Maybe join a ciorcal comhr in your local library. Find a grinds teacher who will give you a set plan, work to do every week. Know from the beginning that if you're not keeping up with it you won't be ready for the oral in April and aim for the following year.

I would avoid an Triail personally. A Thig N Tit orm has easier questions or you could do the 5 extra poems. I find them good for weak students who can fire out a lot of poetry cliches about themes , feelings etc. It's something you'd have to discuss with a teacher.

Make sure you find a teacher with experience of teaching the LC (a lot on gumtree are still in college). And I would agree with the above - even though you need 50% to get into college, you need a much higher standard to get out the other end. The grammar in college is tough and you'll have to demonstrate your ability to teach through Irish.

Best of luck with it! It's doable but you'll have to prioritise it and start now.

SuperRabbit

Yeah, you can do it. Learning a language is one of the easiest things to do, especially nowadays. What will make it possible or impossible is the amount of time you have to dedicate to it.

Start with Duolingo change the settings so pretend you speak Irish and are trying to learn English. That way you have to type everything in Irish.
You will probably think "this is too easy" but then you will find you are getting a lot of things wrong, especially spelling wise. Don't let that hurt your confidence though, it's natural
duolingo.com/course/ga/en/Learn-Irish-Online

You can make your own flashcard course on memrise, or use a user-created one
memrise.com/courses/english/irish/
Because they were made by users they are not all of equally good quality.

Someone made a list of other free resources for Irish here:
duolingo.com/comment/3374465

The best thing with a language is to immerse yourself in it as much as possible. Practice speaking it as much as you can. Only listen to RnaG for a whole year. Watch cartoons in Irish with your kids.

Other people have already spoken a lot about the specific things on the syllabus. They are actually there to help you rather than hinder you. You go in already familiar with the story you will have to write about, as opposed to most language exams around the world where you are given a completely new text in the exam or just before it and you have to write about that.

The lovely thing is you can read Tig na Tit Orm it in a simple version, or even in English (but I don't recommend this), before reading it in its original form, you will know all the things inside out by the time you go into the exam.


And don't ever think anything along the lines of "I won't read that story because it won't be like anything on the exam" or "I won't learn that word because sure it would never come up" because when it comes to language everything is relevant.

One more thing for any language paper, it's so simple but.. don't forget to read the heading and look at the picture, if there is one. They are designed to help you but people are in such stress that they skip them.

The other thing is all the nay-sayer are thinking about what it's like to learn Irish along with 6 other subjects. This is completely different.
You will be fine.

ailish90

I was just wondering how you were getting on with your leaving cert Irish. I was thinking of doing it over 2 years but was wondering if it's achievable in 1 year.