Elderly Neighbour distressed

LegacyUser

Myself and my aunt (we both live next door and have known him for 25+ years) are genuinely concerned, so any advise would be welcome.

So our neighbour is an elderly farmer is his early 80s. He lives alone, but would tend to be a man that rarely has an empty house. No longer farms himself, but rents out the land. About four months ago, his wife passed, and shortly after, he had a bad chest infection and pains in his chest which led to him being hospitalised for a couple of weeks. While he was in hospital, and since then, his nephew or niece (I'm not sure which, but both are of the same mind) seem to have completely taken control over his entire life. He can be a bit forgetful, but most of the time is very sharp, and capable, and quick on his feet. He has not been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, although I get the feeling that that is what is being insinuated by relatives to everyone.

We only know what has been going on because he has been confiding in my aunt, and would regularly be agitated and distressed (to the point of crying) after his relatives leave.

His access to his own bank account has been removed and he is given a meagre €20 -30 per week allowance by them to buy himself cigarettes, and anything else he might like. Food is bought by the relatives, but is very poor- copious amounts of porridge, custard, potatoes and boiled mince, but nothing else.

They reported him to the guards that he is dangerous at driving (this is a lie, he is slow but safe, but they know the guards personally, so they just said that he was forgetful and that was enough to get a house visit with a warning). They also went to the GP to say that he is very forgetful and suggested that he shouldn't sign off for the medical for his license next year. Now he is afraid to drive up the road to his friends houses about 5 miles up the road in case he gets stopped.

Finally. Before his wife died, he was in the process of selling off a portion of his land. With everything that happened, that was put on hold, but he rang up the solicitor to get a meeting to get it started again a few days ago. The solicitor made a meeting to meet him yesterday, but never showed up, and when rang today, said that it was cancelled by the relatives until they gave further instructions.

I don't know what kind of thing could be signed to give such power over someone against their wishes. I know that he doesn't want any big family falling outs as he doesn't have any other family remotely local. My aunt has been told that "its a family matter" when she mentioned to the nephew that he was crying. I understand that as we are only neighbours there might not be anything that we can do, but is there at least a direction that we can point him in to get some control back over his affairs?

Emme

It's difficult to know what to do in this case. Could he get a general health check from an independent doctor who doesn't know the family? If he's well now he won't stay well on the food they're buying him. Does anyone pop into him with a hot nourishing meal? He needs to have one hot nourishing meal every day. He also needs to get fruit and veg and maybe some vitamins. Again an independent doctor might be able to help here.

If he rarely has an empty house surely there are other people along with you and your aunt who could help.

Check out this link from AgeAction, it might be useful:

https://www.ageaction.ie/how-we-can-help/elder-abuse?gclid=CISKrKiChc4CFUWfGwod0-kDbg

loalae

Or could be a case of elder abuse or it could be his family trying to keep him safe. If you are concerned you need to contact your local public health nurse or your local lead in the hse for elder care and explain the circumstances.

tea and coffee

Oh, I'm in two minds posting about this. On the one hand, what you describe sounds very like elder abuse at worst and over meddling, however well intended, at best. The fact that they're all in on it sounds either very nasty of them if that's the case.
On the other hand, I think that one doesn't always know what goes on behind closed doors. My father hid his dementia diagnosis from us for almost a year before I rang his gp to ask wtf was going on. Dad was very good at making excuses for his behaviour, or any lapses until sadly he couldn't hide it anymore.

Maybe they have got a diagnosis and are worried about him and working to help him from putting himself in harms way. I felt like such a bitch when I had to stop my dad from driving and take over his account, but I was worried about him that someone would take advantage or he'd have an accident. He pleaded with me and was very upset.

Maybe they have taken his account as he was spending loads or making ill informed decisions because of an illness. Same with the land. Maybe. I don't know the exact situation, I'm not sure if you do. Maybe you do. It could be option A or a mix of both!

In any case, a doctor would have to certify that he is no longer "able" and he'd be made a ward of court, or if he's still able but diagnosed he may wish to instate an enduring power of attorney with solicitor and verified by Dr that he understands the implications (doesn't seem like he wants the latter )

Tread carefully but well done for being a good and concerned neighbour.

Rekop dog

Yeah it's really none of your business, imo he's lucky he has family who care enough to visit him and look after his affairs. Just focus more on being an alternative source of company to the guy if you're really concerned and maybe help cook him meals and the like.

sadie1502

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yeah it's really none of your business, imo he's lucky he has family who care enough to visit him and look after his affairs. Just focus more on being an alternative source of company to the guy if you're really concerned and maybe help cook him meals and the like.

God really. I think she is right the man is clearly distressed. Thank god not everyone would have them same outlook. Maybe take him to another doctor if he wants to be assessed. It sounds like elder abuse IMO.

patsypantaloni

I understand those who suggest caution but really don't agree this should be ignored. The HSE is the State body responsible for elder abuse, and they're best placed to look into this and make a professional judgment one way or another
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/elderabuse/Contact/

Rekop dog

sadie1502 wrote: »

God really. I think she is right the man is clearly distressed. Thank god not everyone would have them same outlook. Maybe take him to another doctor if he wants to be assessed. It sounds like elder abuse IMO.

He lost his wife recently, of course he's going to be distressed, doesn't mean the family are in the wrong. OP basically claiming they're after his money, if they were so devious surely they'd let him keep on driving instead of going to lengths to prevent an accident.

sadie1502

Rekop dog wrote: »

He lost his wife recently, of course he's going to be distressed, doesn't mean the family are in the wrong. OP basically claiming they're after his money, if they were so devious surely they'd let him keep on driving instead of going to lengths to prevent an accident.

Did you read all of the original post ? Poor quality food. Telling him what he can eat. Have taken his access to money away from him. They have cancelled a meeting he had with his solicitor. Don't just pick out the driving part. This control is worriying and writing him off as being old with alzheimers. This treatment of course is a red flag surly.

PressRun

The first thing I would suggest is, as mentioned above, you could start cooking him a couple of meals or maybe have him over for dinner with you and your aunt. If the food being bought for him is poor, he might appreciate a nice meal on a regular basis, as well as a listening ear. You could also offer to drive him to wherever he needs to go, if possible.

On the subject of the relatives, it's very difficult to know where they're coming from. As tea and coffee mentioned, he could have an early diagnosis of dementia and is able to keep it relatively hidden for now, or they might just be over the top controlling. You don't seem know the full details of what's going on behind closed doors, so I would be very careful about how you approach them. You could make suggestions to them about the amount of money they're giving him or the standard of the food they're buying for him, but don't expect to be thanked for your intervention.

I will say that the situation with the land sounds a wee bit suspicious to me given the sale seems to have been put in motion some time ago and all of a sudden the family are getting involved and trying to stop it going through. But again, it's hard to know when you're not privy to the full story.

Fair play on being a good neighbour though and if you really are genuinely concerned that he's a victim of elder abuse, please contact the HSE.

Rekop dog

sadie1502 wrote: »

Did you read all of the original post ? Poor quality food. Telling him what he can eat. Have taken his access to money away from him. They have cancelled a meeting he had with his solicitor. Don't just pick out the driving part. This control is worriying and writing him off as being old with alzheimers. This treatment of course is a red flag surly.

I've elderly relatives from the country, their diets are very basic, porridge for breakfast, spuds and meat for dinner, it's probably all he eats.
Maybe they think they're in a better position to negotiate a good deal for him with the solicitor, you or OP don't have a clue about the situation and are just assuming the worst as nosey people often do.

Taltos

Mod Note
Rekop dial it back or stop posting. While your opinion is welcome you are sailing very close to personal attacks here which will result in moderator action.

PressRun - this post was already addressed. Tackling it in the manner you just did is considered back seat modding and is equally in breach of our rules. I've removed your post, please read our charter before posting again.

sadie1502

Rekop dog wrote: »

I've elderly relatives from the country, they're diets are very basic, porridge for breakfast, spuds and meat for dinner, it's probably all he eats.
Maybe they think they're in a better position to negotiate a good deal for him with the solicitor, you or OP don't have a clue about the situation and are just assuming the worst as nosey people often do.

No its not being nosey. It's being concerned and rightly so the man is on the verge of tears. Read up on elerly abuse. Get informed. They sound like vultures swarming overhead the poor man. If it was me I would make the call and I wouldn't think twice about it. I know what families are like hungry for money. Good luck OP and you would be doing the right thing by reporting and looking out for your vulnerable neighbour who has come to look for help. Don't turn a blind eye please don't.

jlm29

Your area should have a local social worker with a responsibility for elder abuse. What you're describing is definitely within their remit to at least investigate. If he has the capacity to manage his money, he should be allowed to manage it- but if they're giving him "pocket money" he has obviously signed to allow them to collect his pension.
The problem is, if you report, and someone contacts him, if he doesn't want to cause any rows, he'll tell them everything is grand.
I'm not a busy body, and I generally would stay very much in the camp of minding ones own business, but sometimes that isn't right. I would think you have an obligation to report it to the PHN, or the social worker. If there was a child next door who you suspected was a victim of abuse, no one would tell you to mind your own business

freshpopcorn

This is very hard situation to judge in my opinion and experience.
I know from dealing with elderly relatives that you can spend hours cooking big meals and all they mightn't eat it or all they would want to eat is something small and light. Such as jelly or rice pudding.
Regarding the driving, have you actually being in a car with the man? I know people who'd tip along the road fine but when it came to junctions and more complex situations. Their reactions simply aren't up to it.( I'd however be in favour of people driving up on to the real end, even when there gone a bit slow once they knew their limits)
When you say he hasn't being diagnosed with alzheimer's. How do you know this? I know from experience families/people with illnesses aren't always open about them to friends/relatives. If he was diagnosed with alzheimer's he'd be signed off driving but he could still do it because he wouldn't remember. If the family were so concerned about his driving they'd just take the keys away from him.
What would I suggest doing inviting him over for a meal to see does eat it.
You might be able to contact the district nurse and explain your concerns and they might visit him. This might lead to him getting meals on wheels or home help.
Family situations can be odd and strange to neighbours and friends and things mightn't be what they'd seem.
At the start of my post it might have sounded like I was defending the nephew and niece. I'd just like to say I wasn't and want the best situation for the man.

Skibunny77

Op, you have mentioned several giant red flags for elder abuse. Contact your local Adult safeguarding social work team and public health nurse as soon as you can. With this man's consent, speak to his solicitor and advise of his concerns. The days of this being a 'family matter' are long over. Ireland has a national vulnerable adults policy and safeguarding teams to support people like your neighbour. When talking to your neighbour, just suggest that he have a chat with a social worker who has experience handling concerns like his, in complete confidence. That is the best place to start.

BettePorter

I think you need to tread carefully here OP. This could be my father . He's the same age and we had to take the keys off him a few years ago. His peripheral vision and reaction time had diminished to the point that it was only a matter of time before he killed himself or someone else. Yet to look at you d say, oh he goes slow hes careful. His ten year licence was up and the doc never would have signed the form anyway but to this day he still laments that we 'stole' his keys. And to be fair if they didn't care about him they wouldn't be arsed going to the guards about his driving as it probably means they now have to take him everywhere he needs to go.

Likewise although we take dad to collect his own pension, we had to take control of the money because one day hes quick as a whip but the next hes giving some fella in a van 1k cash for a chainsaw. Hes fine with us managing these things, doing all his shopping, cooking, but on occasion he ll tell extended family (and probably neighbours) that he hasn't eaten that day or that he hasn't seen a soul all week. Thankfully they know hes well cared for and eats three square meals a day.

My point is, age related dementia is inconsistent ..... one day he is 100% and the next he's saying that the next door neighbour came into the house last night and stole all the plastic bags he had saved.

It appears all of what you know is coming from the old guy himself. You really don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Its probably a lot more complex than gold digging family.

tea and coffee

I agree Bette Porter- it could be that, but you'd never forgive yourself if it was the other! when there is money about people can be like vultures- there doesn't even have to be a Will to be relatives (to paraphrase that saying).

Would it be worth talking to one of the rellies- asking open questions, see if they tell you anything that would ring more bells or conversely put your mind at ease.

LegacyUser

Get into the Public Health Nurse. Pronto. Tell her everything.

The great thing about public health nurses is that they arouse little suspicion in a rural area. They are local and well known and appear benign.

One PHN told me the most crucial thing in helping the elderly is "Getting Through The Door". You can't enter without permission and if they say "not today thanks" then you just have to turn around and leave.

So if a PHN just "happened to be passing and just dropped in to say hello after poor Mary passed away" she might be able to start a relationship that may lead to confidences in time. Particularly if you know a time when the nephew/niece is likely to not be there.

And even if the neighbour doesn't want to take anything further, at least he'll know the PHN is his friend.

K_P

I've thankfully never experienced a close family member with dementia so I don't know the forms it can take. It could well be that, but it could also be the case that your neighbour is being abused by his relatives and considering the seriousness of the issue if it is this, then I wouldn't take any chances. As his nephew was very dismissive when your aunt asked him, I'm not sure anything could be gained by approaching them again. The HSE and the relevant social worker or public health nurse will know the best course of action here. Also, well done on being such a lovely neighbour to be so concerned about him. We hear so much about community and neighbourliness being dead and gone in Ireland, so it's lovely to see that that's not always the case.

BrokenWingz

If one of my dad's neighbours came to me with concerns about him I'd be grateful to them for their concern and explain in general what was happening rather than the brush-off the op's aunt got. It may be nothing more than them being in bad humour that day, but that sort of secrecy would raise warning flags for me.

Skibunny77

Having dementia increases risk of abuse and neglect. It shouldn't be used as a reason to minimise or dismiss concerns or let's just hope that's dementia talking approach. Op you sound genuine and lovely and you're obviously ill at ease. Social workers are experienced in addressing these issues sensitively and skillfully. This will be far from the first case they have looked into. You're not passing judgement by contacting social work, you're simply asking them to check things out. If you were ever challenged on this, you could simply say you felt your neighbour was overwhelmed and you put him in touch with some supports.

sparkledrum

When I read this I felt so sad for this poor man. You and your aunt are really wonderful neighbours to have. It's a difficult position to be in and I have no real advice but I think it's horrendous that he's left with so little money to live on and so little freedom.

Estrellita

My heart goes out to this poor old man. Op, yourself and your Aunt are good people, and he's lucky to have you as neighbours. As others have said, I think the best course of action is to get in touch with the PHN and social work department. He does seem quite distressed about them, so it's worth investigating. It sounds like they are giving him the strong arm regarding his finances, and the interference with the solicitor is quite shocking. Its best just to rule out anything untoward going on.