Excluded from family

The Raptor

I don't know where to write this or what kind of advice I'm looking for.

After years of abuse, I walked out and stopped talking to my mother. I saw a brand new picture display in the house where i was excluded. I told her how hurtful it was at the time and she told me i was being childish. I was meant to put up with it.

That was last October and my mother made no effort to apologise. When she forwarded on my mail, she didn't include a letter or note in how sorry she was. The last one I got was last week. I just get empty envelopes with my mail inside. When she sat down to write her Christmas cards to everyone, i wasn't included. Nor has she tried to call me either. Nothing.

I know she will never be sorry for excluding me from her family's pictures. The family i was born into.

I'm after finding out there's a family reunion, but I'm being excluded from this as well.

I have two brothers who came home from Australia, i don't know anything. I just saw facebook pictures of them tagged at a pub at home.

They're probably only here for a few weeks, i don't know how long.

My mother choosed her family and she's got them all under the same roof.

I really don't know what kind of advice I'm looking for. Was I overreacting with pictures i wasn't included in?

Willie Stroker 1976

I dont think you're over reacting at all, if this were me I would be pretty bummed over it. I have a family member who went through something similar, hope your ok!

strandroad

So no one from your family contacted you at all, including your brothers? How is that possible? Can you contact them?
You absolutely have the right to be upset if you're excluded from the reunion.

The Raptor

mhge wrote: »

So no one from your family contacted you at all, including your brothers? How is that possible? Can you contact them?
You absolutely have the right to be upset if you're excluded from the reunion.

Ah but do i want to be included where I'm not wanted.

strandroad

The Raptor wrote: »

Ah but do i want to be included where I'm not wanted.

But who doesn't want you, your mother or your whole family? Would they just listen to her banning you from the event?

njs030

OK so it sounds like something that started somewhere small and has spiralled.

Is your mother the type to apologise or are you asking too much of her? Some people just aren't able to admit they are wrong, if you are utterly insistent on an apology and she has just never apologised to anyone then there could be a case that perhaps you're demanding too much.

I personally wouldn't care if there was a new photo display in my parents home that I wasn't included in, I'd probably just complain about how I looked anyway....photos or lack thereof aren't a measure of love.

Why is it that your brothers haven't told you they are coming home? Could it be that you've overreacted to something minor and they don't want to get drawn into making your mam apologise? It seems odd that not one person has suggested you be invited to the reunion, it's pretty rare that everyone in a family turns against one innocent party so perhaps there's a chance it's 50/50?

I know when you feel like someone is harsh with you one small thing can set it off, is what your missing worth demanding an apology that clearly isn't forthcoming? In these type of cases you either have to accept who your mother is or give up all the family stuff associated with her.

LegacyUser

Is there a reason why you have not sorted your mail to direct your mail from your home to your currant address? Why do you have your mother sending your mail on to you? Do you think she is doing the decent thing by sending your mail. She doesn't have to so she couldn't be all bad.

Is it a possibility that you are picking the bad from the situation you described about your mother's photographs? She has son's living in Australia and she would be lucky if she sees them once a year. You would never be able to compete with the miles. Photographs is all she has of your brothers.

Ursus Horribilis

This all sounds very familiar. You've posted about your mother and your issues with her several times before this, haven't you?

If this is an ongoing issue with your mother, then you may have to accept that you're never going to have a normal relationship with her. Unfortunately, not all women are good mothers. Or indeed, are mothers who love all their children equally and try to be fair.

LegacyUser

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

This all sounds very familiar. You've posted about your mother and your issues with her several times before this, haven't you?

If this is an ongoing issue with your mother, then you may have to accept that you're never going to have a normal relationship with her. Unfortunately, not all women are good mothers. Or indeed, are mothers who love all their children equally and try to be fair.

From what I'm reading, it's not so much ongoing issues but more like unresolved issues.

OP, why are you still hanging onto this? This is bad for you and all it will do is consume you. Have you tried counselling to help you to move forward?

December2012

Have you been in contact with your brothers?

The Raptor

December2012 wrote: »

Have you been in contact with your brothers?

I used to keep in contact, until my messages went ignored, and I gave up.

bonyn

Op, it sounds like you excluded yourself by blowing up the picture frame thing out of proportion.

Yes, your mother's taking it to the next level, but seems you're the one who regrets your decision to break contact, and you genuinely feel you are owed an apology.

It's time to eat humble pie if you want back in to the circle. Then again, if what you say is true about how badly you were treated, why do you want back in?

The Raptor

bonyn wrote: »

Op, it sounds like you excluded yourself by blowing up the picture frame thing out of proportion.

Yes, your mother's taking it to the next level, but seems you're the one who regrets your decision to break contact, and you genuinely feel you are owed an apology.

It's time to eat humble pie if you want back in to the circle. Then again, if what you say is true about how badly you were treated, why do you want back in?

I don't think you understand, I was excluded. What was I meant to do, say it's ok to be left out on family pictures. To be told I'm childish.

I don't see how I was meant to put up with that. I genuinely do think she should apologise but it's not coming, not now, next week, next month or next year.

I think having family over from Australia, she might say or do something to make amends. I guess I was wrong. I'm seeing it now.

bonyn

The Raptor wrote: »

I don't think you understand, I was excluded. What was I meant to do, say it's ok to be left out on family pictures. To be told I'm childish.

Was your mother mean and inconsiderate?
Was it your decision to cut ties?
Was this the correct decision?
Was it a childish decision, i.e. would another adult have done something different?
Do you regret it?

Believe it or not, cutting ties is a legitimate option in certain cases, but not one to be taken lightly.

LegacyUser

The Raptor wrote: »

I used to keep in contact, until my messages went ignored, and I gave up.

Do you want to see your brothers? Is there something stopping you from phoning your brothers and making arrangements to meet up without your mother? Perhaps meeting for a lunch or dinner?

ahnow

Hi op,
I remember your previous posting on this. Have you ever read anything on narcissistic mothers? I think this might be what is going on here. If you look up some information on this and triangulation you might find some common themes as to what is going on with you and your family. For what it's worth, taking your older post into account, you haven't done anything wrong, I think your mother may have a twisted side to her, and I really recommend you seek out alternative support to help you through this, friends on your side, and definately a counseller.
I would recommend pulling back from your family for the moment to avoid further hurt, and start gathering supportive people to surround yourself with for the moment. You might have to start thinking about moving toward accepting that your family and mother aren't going to change any time soon, no matter how much you try to make them understand. It can take a long time to figure that out, and it is very very hard but when you come out the other side it's like a whole new life, without the need for validation or approval from someone else. And all the energy you have been diverting into trying to make them see goes back to you in a more positive way.

njs030

Op have you posted about this before? Maybe you'd like to give a synopsis so people who don't remember your old posts have more understanding as it is a bit hard to know from one incident.

Have you gotten counselling etc? Try to avoid going down the same road over and over - you're insisting she apologises yet the only person being hurt and left out seems to be you. Sometimes rising above truly is the best way

Big Bag of Chips

The Raptor wrote: »

I think having family over from Australia, she might say or do something to make amends. I guess I was wrong. I'm seeing it now.

But she's not in dispute with the family over from Australia, so no need to make amends! She's perfectly capable of having a relationship with her sons without you involved. Surely you can meet up with your brothers without meeting your mother. Or does she have them all under house arrest?!

I know I'm being a little facetious, but what I'm saying is you and your mother clearly have your own problems. Rather than accepting that and working with it/around it, you seem to be waiting on some gesture from your mother that is never going to come. You are an adult. Your brothers are adults. You are all capable of making your own arrangements to see whoever you please. If your brothers have managed to make it all the way from Australia without the help of mammy, surely they can make it to a neutral spot to meet you?

If they don't, then it's because they don't want to. For whatever reason.

It's not nice what is happening you, but you keep expecting something more and it never comes. So you keep feeling let down and left out. It would be lovely to have a nice relationship with family. Of course it would. But it's not necessary. Your life can function fine, probably even better, without all the upset that your family seem to bring. Maybe you need to come to terms with that, and let it go. No matter what you do, you cannot force another persons actions or feelings.

Edit: If you want a relationship with your mother then you are going to have to accept her for who she is. You will have to hold your tongue and listen to whatever she says. You will have to let a lot of things go. We could all list out a long list of things that she should do, but what good is that? Will she suddenly start doing them because the internet thinks she should?? You cannot change her. You cannot change her attitude. All you can do is change your expectations and reactions to her. If you want a relationship YOU are the one that needs to change (however unfair that seems). If you can't do that, then you need to leave it behind you.

Ursus Horribilis

You’re obsessed with photos. Why? I remember reading another thread of yours where you did everything apart from physically hang a picture on your mother’s wall, only for her to reuse the frame and stick someone else’s photo in it. This picture thing is a mere sideshow and a needless distraction for people who don’t know your background story.

Let’s not forget that you started this thread with the words "After years of abuse, I walked out and stopped talking to my mother”. So in other words, you and your mother have not had a good relationship for years. You’ve posted elsewhere on boards about her and you don’t seem to have a good word to say about her. I get the impression that this is eating you up. On previous occasions, you were advised to seek counselling for this. Did you ever go?

If your relationship with your mother is so toxic, why do you think she’ll want to have photos of her in her house? You seem to be under the impression that being her daughter (and showing up in family photos) is going to trump all the other problems you have. If you walked out and have stopped talking to her, you are the last person she’d want anywhere near a family reunion. I very strongly recommend you seek professional help for your relationship with your mother. You are obviously stuck in a rut and if you don’t take proactive steps to overcome this, you’ll still be going on in five years time about photos and your mother and your brothers and god only knows what.

GingerLily

Did you follow the advice from the last threads?

batmanrobin

I remember your previous thread too. OP, there isn't much point in constantly reposting here. What you need to be doing is speaking to a professional about the issues you have with your mother and trying to find ways with the therapist on how to move past it. Even if you never speak to your mother again, you need coping mechanisms.

There's not much that can be said here that wasn't said in your last thread.

The Raptor

The Raptor wrote: »

I really don't know what kind of advice I'm looking for. Was I overreacting with pictures i wasn't included in?

You won't be keen on the advice that might actually help you to get past this. I've seen this post many times under many monikers, and it never changes.

Firstly and most importantly, you have to realise this simple truth: You CANNOT change other peoples behaviour. You can ONLY change yours.

The way to do this is to work through your many family issues with a counsellor or psychologist and to stick with the therapy through the thick and thin times and not quit when it gets hard.

Communication goes both ways. If you want to be involved with your family, then make the move yourself and pick up the phone. If, as I suspect might be the case, you want your families behavior towards you to change and for you to be welcomed with open arms and your behavior to stay the same - and I understand that, it's the easiest on you - that will not happen.

You either accept them as they are and make the first move, and work on the only factor you can change -yourself - or you accept things as they are.

The solution isn't in their hands, it's in yours. Only you can change things on a fundamental level, and for your own sake I hope you do.

You will give yourself a lifetime of brooding and unhappiness if you spend your life constantly brooding and resenting your family, wondering why they can't do what you need to make you happy. Take control of your happiness and do what you need to make you happy yourself.

LegacyUser

What makes you think you are entitled to an apology? There's so much drama over a photograph, it would make you wonder if there's other drama or issues that you are omitting from here.

You said yourself that you walked out and away from your mother. Why are you holding out for an apology from someone you are barely talking to? You cut yourself off from your mother and by the looks of things with an earlier reply, your brothers too. You cut yourself off and that action is going to have consequences. The pictures on Facebook hit a nerve and by the looks of things, it's the start of a downward spiral complaining about being left out. Are you happy with your decision to cut ties? You need to get help to help you move forward with your decision.

intheclouds

I remember your previous posts on this.

Other people here have said more eloquently than I how you cannot change other people.

All I have to say is this, you need to work on yourself. You are still hurting over this situation and you like to take each new aspect of it to beat yourself with further.

Why is your mail still going to your mothers address?
Why does your mother have your new address at all?

Awful as it is to contemplate, you are the one hurting yourself here and you are the only one who can fix it. You fix it by getting help, accepting your mother for who and what she is, and moving on. Healing yourself. Working on yourself.

All you are doing now is brooding on it. That you are still brooding on the picture incident says so much - you need to learn how to move on.

If you didnt take any of the advice from your previous threads you need to do so.

rondog

I think we are only hearing one side of the story here.It seems strange how all of your family have disconnected from you.

Did you do something on them?Why would your brothers and other family not have a relationship with you?

I think the historical level of fixation on these issues belies an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

The issues might be a symptom of a wider problem.

intheclouds

In many ways (and I may have said this before) this reminds me of my father. He was an alcoholic. He did have some good qualities but the drink swallowed them.

But he used to do what the OP is doing. He would pick on a small enough incident - like the family photos - and make a massive ordeal about it. He would storm out, say he was NEVER contacting that person again. Then he would brood on it. He would tell everyone how that person had actually had it in for him for years and it had culminated in him cutting them out. Then he would behave as though the person was deliberately punishing him. They would have a party, he wouldnt be invited, and suddenly all of the people who went were against him too. He would believe the party had only been thrown to hurt him. It would go on for literally years. He would just never ever move on. Even 20 years later he could get riled up about the most minor of incidents from his past.

It is my belief he was an alcoholic because of undiagnosed mental health issues.

OP - I believe you are suffering in a similar way to him. His mind just wouldnt stop torturing him and he never got treated for it.

The Raptor

I was OK for the past 10 months, i know i did the right decision. My mother wouldn't discuss it. By going back, I'm just accepting the behaviour and saying its ok to continue on with the same behaviour.

Christmas bothered me, in that i wasn't worth a thought.

Having two family members home, i thought she might have softened up a bit this week. I guess I'm not male enough to be part of the family.

Ursus Horribilis

So did you ever go to get help as we've suggested?

The Raptor

The Raptor wrote: »

I guess I'm not male enough to be part of the family.

Oh is this one of those Irish "the Mammy values her boys above her girls" things?

What's to stop you getting in touch with your brothers?

The Raptor

The Raptor wrote: »

I was OK for the past 10 months, i know i did the right decision. My mother wouldn't discuss it. By going back, I'm just accepting the behaviour and saying its ok to continue on with the same behaviour.

Christmas bothered me, in that i wasn't worth a thought.

Having two family members home, i thought she might have softened up a bit this week. I guess I'm not male enough to be part of the family.

Have you read the replies to your OP and have you explored any of the avenues recommended?

The Raptor

Candie wrote: »

Have you read the replies to your OP and have you explored any of the avenues recommended?

I was always meant to get counseling to see if it helps but never got around to it.

But believe it or not, I just picked up the phone and made my first appointment. Not sure what to expect from it.

The Raptor

The Raptor wrote: »

I was always meant to get counseling to see if it helps but never got around to it.

But believe it or not, I just picked up the phone and made my first appointment. Not sure what to expect from it.

Don't expect miracles, expect to put a lot of work in, and long term too. You might feel worse to begin with, but you have to get through it if you want to shake off the fixations and hold your issues have over you. Stick with it.

Best of luck with it.

intheclouds

The Raptor wrote: »

I was always meant to get counseling to see if it helps but never got around to it.

But believe it or not, I just picked up the phone and made my first appointment. Not sure what to expect from it.

Cool.

The bad news is, sometimes our parents **** us up.

The good news is, we can choose to help ourselves and get past it.

Won't it be lovely when you're not held prisoner by this anymore? Lovely freedom!

Fakediamond

I agree wth ahnow, you could start your journey to recovery by researching narcissistic mothers, you might find some answers to your mother's behaviour there, and how you could deal with the fallout now that you are an adult and away from her toxic input. I think some posters don't understand how narcissistic parents can divide families and siblings, which might explain your estrangement from your brothers. What about your sister? Any contact there?

You need to surround yourself with friends who accept you just as you are and are positive to be around. You may have to move forwards without family around you, lots if people do. I would be lost in life without my network of friends, who I consider to be like my surrogate family as I have minimal contact with blood relatives.

Ultimately, posters are correct in saying you can only change yourself, and when you change your approach, it often changes how others respond to you (maybe not your mother though!).

Good luck with the therapy, stick with it, you don't always click with the first therapist you meet, so don't despair if that's the case.

JellieBabie

OP can you elaborate on the picture thing as I don't quite understand? How do you mean you were left out of photos??

The Raptor

JellieBabie wrote: »

OP can you elaborate on the picture thing as I don't quite understand? How do you mean you were left out of photos??

There were pictures of all my brothers. I have one brother at home, so it's not because she doesn't see her sons in Australia. She sees my brother at home every day and there was a picture of him. One of them seems to be better than the rest of them, he's king. There was tons of pictures of him. Including a picture of himself and his partner.

My mother could find space for tons of pictures of them including brothers partner but none of me.

I gave her a picture of me to include. At the time, i didn't have a frame, so i gave her the picture. There was six weeks where she said she didn't get time to get a frame, she doesn't work, so she has loads of time, told me to buy one myself. She didn't tell my brother at home to get his own frame. She got all their frames in the euro shop, she can afford to buy my brother petrol for his car but on €1 on a frame for me.

I knew at the time, nothing would come from it. It was confirmation. If i have had got a frame myself, i know it would be re-used.

She told me I was being childish when i asked why my picture wasn't included. She wouldn't discuss it.

I'm over it. I'm not giving her a chance to hurt me again.

LegacyUser

Giving your mother a picture of yourself just to test her in what she would do with it and knowing she probably won't put it up is very scheming and calculated. I don't understand why there is so much drama over the outcome if you had an inclination your mother wouldn't put up a picture of you. Seeing some of your family home and learning of a family get-together through Facebook has hit a nerve with you. That and the fact your are here 10 months later complaining of the same issue of your mother's pictures says to me that you are not over it despite what you tell yourself.

strandroad

Looks like you really have no chance to have a relationship with your mother so no point in goading her to do anything. I would also suggest counselling to learn how to cope with this rejection, because rejection it is and it must hurt, but you cannot change it so don't try...

Why do you have no relationship with the rest of your family though? Surely it would be a normal thing for them to give you a heads up when they are going to visit?

freshpopcorn

How is your relationship with your brother's in general? I'd find it odd that they didn't contact you to say they were coming home from Australia.
Do they agree with your reason for moving out or would they be the type who'd think your being over dramatic and are happy to leave you to yourself.

deisemum

rondog wrote: »

I think we are only hearing one side of the story here.It seems strange how all of your family have disconnected from you.

Did you do something on them?Why would your brothers and other family not have a relationship with you?

Often the other siblings of narcissistic mothers will take the mother's side even though they themselves haven't had any disagreement with the "black sheep" in order that they don't become the new target or as a way of self-preservation and they see this as normal behaviour because they've grown up conditioned to it.

njs030

deisemum wrote: »

Often the other siblings of narcissistic mothers will take the mother's side even though they themselves haven't had any disagreement with the "black sheep" in order that they don't become the new target or as a way of self-preservation and they see this as normal behaviour because they've grown up conditioned to it.

Why is the mother being labelled as a narcissist because she didn't bow to the op's demands for a photo? What am I missing?

Ursus Horribilis

There's much more to this story than photos.

njs030

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

There's much more to this story than photos.

Maybe there is, I asked the op a number of days ago if she'd give a synopsis to the readers who don't know the background which she ignored. Though she seems to ignore a lot as this story happened 10 months ago and is being resurrected....I thought it was a boards policy not to allow multiple threads about the same issue when the poster is ignoring all advice.

Ursus Horribilis

To be fair, she mentioned that she has booked her first counselling session. I hope she gets something from it because it has definitely turned into groundhog day. I've read her other threads so I've got a good gist of what's going on. But christ, the pictures thing...

Taltos

Mod Note
OK closing this now as we've clearly moved beyond giving constructive advice and instead are dragging up old threads that the OP may have created. Gentle reminder all, please read our charter before giving advice. Any posts that do not give constructive advice and in a civil manner are considered off topic and may result in action. If you have an issue with a thread report it. Dragging a thread off topic referring to an older thread is not appropriate. Were such a thread an issue the mods would have actioned this thread as soon as it was first reported, but as I said now that we're off the reservation there's little choice but to close the thread instead of going the route of cards.

OP - please follow through on getting some professional help, sometimes the best thing you can do is get support from a 3rd party.