The welterweight division

Interslice

Some unreal fights in the last in this division in recent times and the trend is set to continue. Maia vs. Condit has been moved to headline fight night vancouver. Really looking forward that one. I feel they are giving maia as many non title shots as they they can in the hope that someone figures him out before he submits the champ. Be interesting to see maia go 5 rounds. I'd fancy condit over 3 but I don't think anyone in the division wants to go five rounds with him!

I predict..

Maia beats condit,
Lawler beats woodey
Thomson beats lawler
Maia beats thompson.
Maia vs. Mcdonald for the title would be awesome. I think rory should hold out for that. His nose looks to be really bad. I think he would have beaten lawler if it wasn't for that left hand that broke his nose in the second round of their last fight. He didn't look the same fighter against thompson. Hopefully he can come back from it as he's only 26.

What are your predictions? Will maia be able to take down the top 5 guys in every round or will he have to stand up for 1 or 2 or all?

Champion : Robbie Lawler

1 Stephen Thompson
2 Rory MacDonald
3 Demian Maia
4 Tyron Woodley
5 Carlos Condit
6 Kelvin Gastelum
7 Neil Magny
8 Johny Hendricks
9 Matt Brown
10 Rick Story
11 Dong Hyun Kim
12 Gunnar Nelson
13 Tarec Saffiedine
14 Donald Cerrone
15 Thiago Alves

dashoonage

Bad boys bad boys what ya gonna do what ya gonna do when MVP comes for you.....



i kid i kid :P

Interslice

dashoonage wrote: »

Bad boys bad boys what ya gonna do what ya gonna do when MVP comes for you.....



i kid i kid :P

Fracture a skull with your knee, decline to fight in the UFC, I smell a PED

Rick story vs Cerrone is the other big scheduled fight coming up on the UFC 202 card. Hendricks would be a good fight for Gunnar( or anyone) looking to get into the top ten. The top 6 all have to scrap it out for a while though I feel before the likes of gunnar and cerrone will have a shot at the top 5. Hendricks has shot gasteulum up the ranking when I don't think he's as good as gunnar, cowboy, story or magny below him.

dashoonage

Interslice wrote: »

Fracture a skull with your knee, decline to fight in the UFC, I smell a PED

Rick story vs Cerrone is the other big scheduled fight coming up on the UFC 202 card. Hendricks would be a good fight for Gunnar( or anyone) looking to get into the top ten. The top 6 all have to scrap it out for a while though I feel before the likes of gunnar and cerrone will have a shot at the top 5. Hendricks has shot gasteulum up the ranking when I don't think he's as good as gunnar, cowboy, story or magny below him.

Its a tainted supplement i swear!!!

Hendricks needs to sit himself down and have a good chat with himself over his recent performances, and stop eating steaks for a bit.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Mellor

Maia hasn't beaten a top 5 opponent yet but he could mangle any of them on his night. One think I've noticed with Maia that he he has the ability to really punish the smallest mistakes, one slip up and that the whole round to Maia, if you survive.
Looking forward to his fight with Condit.

Useful.Idiot

Interslice wrote: »

Maia beats thompson.
Maia vs. Mcdonald for the title would be awesome.

Even though Rory dominated Maia already and Wonderboy schooled Rory? Interesting. I think Thompson would beat Maia in that match-up. His devastating stand-up and surprisingly good TD and ground defence could be enough to nullify Maia's offence attempts.

Mellor

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

Even though Rory dominated Maia already and Wonderboy schooled Rory? Interesting. I think Thompson would beat Maia in that match-up. His devastating stand-up and surprisingly good TD and ground defence could be enough to nullify Maia's offence attempts.

Wonderboy hasn't got near the ground defense to nullify Maia.
Gunnar is maybe the second best pure grappler in that division, and Maia dominated him.

To beat Maia you are relying on TD defense and kepping a **** load of distance. Maybe Thompson can manage that, but if he goes down Maia eats his alive. Ground defence isn't remotely there

Lukker-

Mellor wrote: »

Wonderboy hasn't got near the ground defense to nullify Maia.
Gunnar is maybe the second best pure grappler in that division, and Maia dominated him.

To beat Maia you are relying on TD defense and kepping a **** load of distance. Maybe Thompson can manage that, but if he goes down Maia eats his alive. Ground defence isn't remotely there

Maia has probably the best double leg or single leg in the division, his timing is something else. Think it would be a different story with Wonderboy though, Hendricks and McDonald couldn't get close to him and they are able to mix it up a bit more with striking on the way in.

I think the fact that it's now a 5 rounder versus Condit gives Condit the edge. He has so much experience in 5 rounders, unless Maia can get something in the first 3, but I think Condit's defensive ground game is good enough to withstand the onslaught.

Mellor

Lukker- wrote: »

Think it would be a different story with Wonderboy though, Hendricks and McDonald couldn't get close to him and they are able to mix it up a bit more with striking on the way in.

Sure, he could well keep away for a whole fight. I jsut meant thats his only path to win. Ground defense wize, he'd be tapped.

I think the fact that it's now a 5 rounder versus Condit gives Condit the edge. He has so much experience in 5 rounders, unless Maia can get something in the first 3, but I think Condit's defensive ground game is good enough to withstand the onslaught.

Maia only needs one sub tbf. 5 rounds means its 10 more minutes to find it

Ush1

Maia could also get knocked out by either Condit or Wonderboy.

weemcd

A weightclass full of sharks, arguably only below Lightweight for talent.

I think Condit can point his way to a decision in this one, or possibly late stoppage. He's not bad off his back, but level below Maia on the ground (though tbh who isn't??) Can Maia live with him on the feet? Condit's recent record on paper betrays him a little, he arguably won v Lawler, beat Alves well which he would be expected to do, had a freak injury with Woodley, good win over Kampman and a loss to Johnny Hendricks that could have been a win had it been a five rounder. Prior to that he went 5 rounds with GSP and hit him with a ferocious kick that I don't know how GSP took. Interesting styles matchup. Once he gets going Condit can really put a clinic on you.

As for Lawler v Woodley I'm a big fan of both, with a serious love for Lawler (and what fight fan wouldn't?) While Robbie's chin can't hold up forever with some miles on the clock and a propensity for getting into wars, provided he can take the early heat Woodley can undoubtedly bring, I say Lawler starts to pull away in the later rounds. Woodley has been out for a very long time, some would question his cardio and they would be right to do so for this one. How many times has he went more than 3 rounds? Once. A 4th round loss to Marquardt 4 years ago. He will be 34, same age as Lawler, but with no outings in 18 months. Robbie fights with the devil in him, and if he's still coming for you in the 4th and the 5th he is incredibly dangerous, finally, his level of competition in the last 3 years is incredible.

Gastelum needs another win against a top guy to start to get close to contention, hopefully he has sorted out his weight cutting issues and gets a few wins in a row together.

I don't know if it's ever gonna happen for Rory with the belt at this stage, he still has time and can arguably beat anyone on his day. Holds wins over Woodley and Maia who are above him in the pecking order now, but loses against Lawler x2, Thompson and Condit make it hard for him to get another title shot any time soon.

As for Thompson he has been on a great streak with a nice progression in level of competition, still showing knockout power. I don't confess to know as much about him as I do others, but glance at his recent record and hear Joe Rogan praise him and you know this guy is special. Arguably next champ.

Cerrone is a dark horse who has racked up a serious amount of wins against very solid competition, admittedly the majority of his wins are at lightweight but wins over current champ Alvarez, Barboza, Ben Henderson are not to be sniffed at. Only recent loss has been to the champ at the time RDA, and there is no shame in that. Hasn't fought a top guy at Welterweight yet, but given his willingness to seemingly fight anyone at any time I doubt it will be too long before we see cowboy face a top 10 guy. Although Rick Story isn't to be underestimated, Cerrone won't be at a size disadvantage to this one compared to many welterweights that he would, it's a very winnable fight for him. I liken Cerrone to a taller version of Uriah Faber, he will only ever lose to the top,top guys and would be expected to beat anyone else on his day.

kumate_champ07

I think/hope Lawler retires after next fight

Condit beats Maia

SureYWouldntYa

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I think/hope Lawler retires after next fight

Condit beats Maia

What would point to Lawler retiring? He's in his prime, and hasn't even started to decline.

Whatever about saying Dan Henderson should retire, I mean he is 46 soon, lost 6 of his last 9 with a few hard finishes. If he retired after fighting Bisping it wouldn't be the biggest shock and would make sense, win or lose.

But Lawler isn't close to that level yet, he'll probably go down on his sword trying to fight, a bit like Chuck

kumate_champ07

because of the wars he's been in, he mentioned recently he may only have a few fights left. I dont know if he has any other way of making money and its hard to turn down big money fights

Lukker-

If Lawler gets through Woodley I think he'd retire if got 1 last big money fight, GSP is the only big money fight to make in WW really. Wonderboy has the next shot though.

Useful.Idiot

Lukker- wrote: »

GSP is the only big money fight to make in WW really.

Maybe the rematch with Nick Diaz too. Doesn't seem like GSP is coming back.

Interslice

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

Maybe the rematch with Nick Diaz too. Doesn't seem like GSP is coming back.

Didn't realise how quick woodley was is at closing the distance and firing the right. Robbie takes shots though, that's why I thought wonderboy would beat him for the title.. Rory head kicked him twice in the last fight but just didn't have the power to finish him. Wonderboy kicks much harder. I think wonderboy will be able to keep woodley at range and avoid and counter the right hand though. Maybe that's also why he wants nick, who will stand a box with him like lawler did, not just for the money.

EvilJanuzaj

Yeah the WW division is in limbo at the minute. There's a lack of marketable fighters. The UFC had obviously hoped MacDonald would win the title at UFC 189, he maybe seems the most marketable out of the lot of them. But Woodley becoming champion is a disaster, the look on Dana's face before he put the belt around Woodley's waist after he won the fight says it all. Woodley won't sell tickets. Robbie Lawler is a great fighter, but his PPV numbers aren't great. Thompson is interesting, Condit or Maia aren't marketable. I don't think Cerrone is good enough to win a title at 170 - the division really isn't looking good.

Nick Diaz and GSP are the two big names that will sell tickets and are the clear money fights, but GSP probably won't come back - he's talking a lot of how he's thinking about it, but it probably won't happen. Nick wants big fights and there aren't any at 170. He'll likely come back and do some superfights.

Right now, a WW title fight could barely hold a PPV together, because apart from Wonderboy or maybe MacDonald, I don't think people are interested. It's a bit like 125 in the sense that people don't seem to have the appetite for it, and until someone marketable comes along, it's not going to change.

Interslice

EvilJanuzaj wrote: »

Yeah the WW division is in limbo at the minute. There's a lack of marketable fighters. The UFC had obviously hoped MacDonald would win the title at UFC 189, he maybe seems the most marketable out of the lot of them. But Woodley becoming champion is a disaster, the look on Dana's face before he put the belt around Woodley's waist after he won the fight says it all. Woodley won't sell tickets. Robbie Lawler is a great fighter, but his PPV numbers aren't great. Thompson is interesting, Condit or Maia aren't marketable. I don't think Cerrone is good enough to win a title at 170 - the division really isn't looking good.

Nick Diaz and GSP are the two big names that will sell tickets and are the clear money fights, but GSP probably won't come back - he's talking a lot of how he's thinking about it, but it probably won't happen. Nick wants big fights and there aren't any at 170. He'll likely come back and do some superfights.

Right now, a WW title fight could barely hold a PPV together, because apart from Wonderboy or maybe MacDonald, I don't think people are interested. It's a bit like 125 in the sense that people don't seem to have the appetite for it, and until someone marketable comes along, it's not going to change.

**** marketing. It's my favourite division just due to the mixed and high level skill sets of the fighters. Ellenberger looked like a beast against brown. Apparently he has been too lazy to train up until now. I think we'll see him, cerrone, story and gunnar nelson creep into the top ten over the next 6-12 months.

Interslice

Lukker- wrote: »

Maia has probably the best double leg or single leg in the division, his timing is something else. Think it would be a different story with Wonderboy though, Hendricks and McDonald couldn't get close to him and they are able to mix it up a bit more with striking on the way in.

I think the fact that it's now a 5 rounder versus Condit gives Condit the edge. He has so much experience in 5 rounders, unless Maia can get something in the first 3, but I think Condit's defensive ground game is good enough to withstand the onslaught.

Carlos said the same to helwani "more opportunities to end it quickly and violently"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLbsFYj-wY

Can't wait for this. Condit round 1 KO could also happen. Maia doesn't take a great shot. SO many 50:50 fights at WW. Hard to know who beats who.

martyos121

Interslice wrote: »

Carlos said the same to helwani "more opportunities to end it quickly and violently"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLbsFYj-wY

Can't wait for this. Condit round 1 KO could also happen. Maia doesn't take a great shot. SO many 50:50 fights at WW. Hard to know who beats who.

Maia's only been finished once in his entire career, and that was 7 years ago. Saying he doesn't take a good shot is a myth, he's faced some excellent strikers before too.

This either goes the distance in favour of Condit or Maia takes his back and chokes him out. The fact that Condit hasn't tapped in 10 years makes me think it'll be the former though.

Tazzimus

If Maia gets hold of Condit and can stay there, I can see the fight going his way. He's extremely hard to shake off once he gets grips in and will absolutely drain you in the process.

We seen how amateur he made Gunni look and that mans grappling is ridiculous.

I like the fact that the welterweight division has an air of uncertainty about it, no one clear dominant contender. Makes things less boring I find.

Interslice

Ye maybe he has a better chin than i thought. Looking back at a few of his fights where he went down i think he actually took a dive. Watch the 3rd round against mat brown. He couldnt take brown down so instead he took a dive anc let brown mount him.. the look on brown face a few seconds later when he pinned against the cage is gas. One of the best pieces of bjj ive seen in mma.

Condit needs to sprael like fook and keep standing him up if he gets knocked down. Maia didnt look yo have a double leg by round 3.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Lukker-

Rumours of a potential Tyron Woodley USADA violation. From the twitter account that broke BJ and Yoel Romero, but he has since deleted the tweet.

mdwexford

EvilJanuzaj wrote: »

Yeah the WW division is in limbo at the minute. There's a lack of marketable fighters. The UFC had obviously hoped MacDonald would win the title at UFC 189, he maybe seems the most marketable out of the lot of them. But Woodley becoming champion is a disaster, the look on Dana's face before he put the belt around Woodley's waist after he won the fight says it all. Woodley won't sell tickets. Robbie Lawler is a great fighter, but his PPV numbers aren't great. Thompson is interesting, Condit or Maia aren't marketable. I don't think Cerrone is good enough to win a title at 170 - the division really isn't looking good.

Nick Diaz and GSP are the two big names that will sell tickets and are the clear money fights, but GSP probably won't come back - he's talking a lot of how he's thinking about it, but it probably won't happen. Nick wants big fights and there aren't any at 170. He'll likely come back and do some superfights.

Right now, a WW title fight could barely hold a PPV together, because apart from Wonderboy or maybe MacDonald, I don't think people are interested. It's a bit like 125 in the sense that people don't seem to have the appetite for it, and until someone marketable comes along, it's not going to change.

This is the greatest load of crap I've read in a while.

WW is probably the most stacked exciting division, marketable me bollix.

kumate_champ07

mdwexford wrote: »

This is the greatest load of crap I've read in a while.

WW is probably the most stacked exciting division, marketable me bollix.

big talent does not equal big ppv revenue

the UFC is still growing, it needs more stars that will sell fights, and that comes down to larger than life personalities.

its not about the mma market, its about the sports entertainment market

kumate_champ07

Lukker- wrote: »

Rumours of a potential Tyron Woodley USADA violation. From the twitter account that broke BJ and Yoel Romero, but he has since deleted the tweet.

Ive been hoping for news like this, please be true!!

SureYWouldntYa

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

Ive been hoping for news like this, please be true!!

Bad form hoping a fighter gets popped.........Well I wouldn't be sad if i seen it meself thinking about it...........

mdwexford

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

big talent does not equal big ppv revenue

the UFC is still growing, it needs more stars that will sell fights, and that comes down to larger than life personalities.

its not about the mma market, its about the sports entertainment market

I don't give a crap about ppv revenue. Won't put money in my pocket.

I want to see killers going to war against each other. The WW division has that in spades.

darced

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mdwexford

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Baffling and I can't ever remember this much talk about it before Conor started going on about it non stop.

dashoonage

Dont care. Let them bang.

Mellor

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah it gets taken to a weird extreme a lot.
Sure, I was as curious as the next guy, to see what numbers certain events they do.
But it doesn't affect my enjoyment. I don't feel like by decision to watch an event is validated by if 1mil+ tune in.

kumate_champ07

mdwexford wrote: »

Baffling and I can't ever remember this much talk about it before Conor started going on about it non stop.

Welterweight CM Punk is fighting on a main card soon, is it because he's a great mma fighter or is it because it will sell alot of ppv's?

by the way, this is a discussion not obsession.

mdwexford

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

Welterweight CM Punk is fighting on a main card soon, is it because he's a great mma fighter or is it because it will sell alot of ppv's?

by the way, this is a discussion not obsession.

That has nothing to do with the above discussion though.
They can put Hulk Hogan in the octagon and sell 10 million ppvs, will make no difference to me.

We are both aware he has never had an Mma fight.

Time will tell if he sells ppvs. The UFC obviously signed him in the hope he will.

Fans should want top guys fighting each other, whether it does 200k buys or 200 millions buys is immaterial to us.

darced

This post has been deleted.

kumate_champ07

mdwexford wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the above discussion though.
They can put Hulk Hogan in the octagon and sell 10 million ppvs, will make no difference to me.

We are both aware he has never had an Mma fight.

Time will tell if he sells ppvs. The UFC obviously signed him in the hope he will.

Fans should want top guys fighting each other, whether it does 200k buys or 200 millions buys is immaterial to us.

I think you're missing my point. the problem is when fights are selected in order to make the most money rather than to exhibit the best mma talent. that is when the business aspect rules above the sport, of course fans want the best fights. but those fans arent the UFC's no1 priority, the big money right now is coming from casual fans that have limited knowledge

StringerBell

mdwexford wrote: »

Baffling and I can't ever remember this much talk about it before Conor started going on about it non stop.

This.

mdwexford

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I think you're missing my point. the problem is when fights are selected in order to make the most money rather than to exhibit the best mma talent. that is when the business aspect rules above the sport, of course fans want the best fights. but those fans arent the UFC's no1 priority, the big money right now is coming from casual fans that have limited knowledge

Yeah of course, the UFC is a business seeking to make the most profit possible.

The first guy I quoted was saying the WW division is bad now and it's fighters aren't marketable. Which I think is rubbish.

No division is full of hugely popular household name fighters that sell tons of ppvs.

Outside of Conor and Ronda nobody else will do huge numbers.

Interslice

A chance for cerrone to get into the top 10 the weekend. I think this fight will suit him. Seems to have serkous power at 170 and story like to stand there and he seemed to take alot of shots against nelson. One of the if not the biggest draw on the card outside of the main eveng. Between him and johnson.

As crazy as it sounds i think mcgregor will fight for the ww belt next year if he wins this sunday.

Interslice

What is with cerrone wanting to go down to 155?? HE looks like a beast at 170. Don't think he earns himself a title shot at 155 by beating 170 pounders either. Maybe he's looking at a piece of the mcgregor - diaz pie now they're going back down?

Kirby

The PPV numbers indicate interest in a card/fighters on the card. Frankly its a terrific metric of public interest and the quality of a card. If you think of the "great cards" over the last couple of years that are famous for great fights and wars......they all did really well in PPV numbers. For example you can gauge peoples dissatisfaction with a card like 200 by it underperforming. And It tells you a lot about draw power versus skill. For example Mighty mouse being technically brilliant yet still less of a draw than guys ranked 15 in other weight classes. All of this is noteworthy.

Of course, the "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" comparisons are juvenile but to suggest that PPV numbers shouldnt be discussed is silly. They matter. A Lot.

Mellor

Kirby wrote: »

The PPV numbers indicate interest in a card/fighters on the card. Frankly its a terrific metric of public interest and the quality of a card. If you think of the "great cards" over the last couple of years that are famous for great fights and wars......they all did really well in PPV numbers. For example you can gauge peoples dissatisfaction with a card like 200 by it underperforming. And It tells you a lot about draw power versus skill. For example Mighty mouse being technically brilliant yet still less of a draw than guys ranked 15 in other weight classes. All of this is noteworthy.

Of course, the "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" comparisons are juvenile but to suggest that PPV numbers shouldnt be discussed is silly. They matter. A Lot.

I think the point is how big a draw a fighter is shouldn't affect your personal viewing of a fight. Sure, refer to the buyrate in passing interest, but you don't it to validate anything.

For example, I watch 202 last night. It was immense and lived up to the hype and then some. One of the highlights of all the fights I've watched.
I imagine it'll do very well in PPV buys and I'm interested to hear the final number. But ultimately, I make my own opinion on it. I don't need 1.5million americans to agree with me to justify my opinion.