Selling a car for export

xabi

I have agreed to sell my car to a Polish lad who is exporting the car back to Poland so he needs the original log book. What's the procedure here for that? I want to be sure I'm covered with Shannon etc.

biko

Usually - you hand over everything to him as he will need the book.

That said, don't trust him.
Cash in hand or money deposited together in a bank into your account.
Sales contract signed and dated
Photo of him and his photo ID - if he is serious he shouldn't mind.

If he's not in a hurry, then you send off logbook to Shannon with his details. He receives updated logbook as usual after a week or two and then does whatever he likes with his new property.

If in any doubt about answers here, ring Shannon and ask what they want you to do.

xabi

It all seems above board and he has agreed to the photos of hm and passports etc. I'll be meeting hm at the bank and lodging cash before I hand over the keys. If I send the log book to Shannon and car gets registered in his name, won't that mean he cant import back to Poland?

Vic_08

biko wrote: »

Usually - you hand over everything to him as he will need the book.

That said, don't trust him.
Cash in hand or money deposited together in a bank into your account.
Sales contract signed and dated
Photo of him and his photo ID - if he is serious he shouldn't mind.

If he's not in a hurry, then you send off logbook to Shannon with his details. He receives updated logbook as usual after a week or two and then does whatever he likes with his new property.

If in any doubt about answers here, ring Shannon and ask what they want you to do.

^That.

Personally I wouldn't hand over a log book to anyone. I'm not an exporter so I will only sell to someone who is willing to wait for the log book back from Shannon in their name, what they do with the car subsequently is their business.

What is done with the car while there is still a register of it being mine is very much my concern so no to anyone wanting the registration handed directly to them.

xabi

His cash is as good as a locals and I've no problem with him exporting it, my only concern is getting a speeding ticket or parking fine before he takes the car out of the state.

FluffyAngel

xabi wrote: »

His cash is as good as a locals and I've no problem with him exporting it, my only concern is getting a speeding ticket or parking fine before he takes the car out of the state.

Legally,from the date of sale and when the date is put in logbook and photocopied and you post it,your covered ...

xabi

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Legally,from the date of sale and when the date is put in logbook and photocopied and you post it,your covered ...

I wont be posting it though

Vic_08

xabi wrote: »

I wont be posting it though

And that is where the potential issue lies.

From the date you give him the car+log book to the time he registers it in another jurisdiction (if ever) there is a car not under your control that is still officially listed as being yours.

If he is not as good as his word and continues to drive the car then you will be the first place anyone comes if any fines, accidents or crimes are linked to it.

Is this guy turning up with a tow truck to take it or will he be driving it away?

Car99

Ring shannon, if it was me I'd send a registered letter to shannon with the new owners details and explain to them your situation.

CiniO

Car99 wrote: »

Ring shannon, if it was me I'd send a registered letter to shannon with the new owners details and explain to them your situation.

What's the point of that. They won't do anything about it anyway.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

Usually - you hand over everything to him as he will need the book.

That said, don't trust him.
Cash in hand or money deposited together in a bank into your account.
Sales contract signed and dated
Photo of him and his photo ID - if he is serious he shouldn't mind.

If he's not in a hurry, then you send off logbook to Shannon with his details. He receives updated logbook as usual after a week or two and then does whatever he likes with his new property.

If in any doubt about answers here, ring Shannon and ask what they want you to do.

He can't do that if person buying is not resident in Ireland (doesn't have Irish address).
Shannon won't accept Polish address on registration cert.

CiniO

xabi wrote: »

If I send the log book to Shannon and car gets registered in his name, won't that mean he cant import back to Poland?

He can export car from Ireland to Poland regardless in which name it's registered, but if he is not resident in Ireland, you can't send logbook to shannon with his foreign address.

CiniO

xabi wrote: »

I have agreed to sell my car to a Polish lad who is exporting the car back to Poland so he needs the original log book. What's the procedure here for that? I want to be sure I'm covered with Shannon etc.

Xabi, generally you won't be able to sell a car to foreigner without giving him a logbook. No one in the right mind would buy a car without taking valid logbook.

On the other hand, Shannon recommends against handing down a logbook to foreign buyers, but fails to provide any procedure of unregistering/informing about vehicle being sold for export. So if you want to go 100% with Shannon recommendations you just can't sell the car to foreigner.

Here's quotation from Dept of Tranport / Shannon.

Vehicle Exports.

Vehicles which qualify for a VRT refund

Legislation introduced in 2013 provides for the refund of residual VRT where a vehicle is permanently exported from the State (S.I. No 110 of 2013 – Finance Act 2012). The refund is limited to passenger vehicles (EU category M1) that are registered in the State and on which VRT has been paid. Vehicles are subject to a pre-export inspection and repayment of VRT is made by the Revenue Commissioners based on proof of import and registration in the destination jurisdiction. Details are available on the website at www.revenue.ie or telephone 047-62100.

Vehicles which are not concerned with a refund of VRT

Article 12 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) (Amendment) Regulations 1992 (S.I. No. 385 of 1992) provides for the licensing authority to be informed in writing by the registered owner when a vehicle is being permanently exported from the State. The current registered owner must inform the local Motor Tax Office and/or the Driver and Vehicle Computer Services Division (DVCSD), Department of Transport Tourism & Sport, Shannon, Co Clare that the vehicle is being permanently exported to a given export destination (country).

Where the ownership of the vehicle is being transferred to a person outside the jurisdiction of the State, the current registered owner is obliged to submit the Vehicle Registration Certificate (VRC) to DVCSD in Shannon and the purchaser’s name and address details must also be submitted.

Please note that the VRC should not be given to the purchaser of the vehicle either in Ireland or abroad. The DVCSD will assist the authorities in the exporting destination with vehicle details.

The current registered owner of the vehicle should be aware that their liability for the vehicle under the Road Traffic Acts continues in respect of the vehicle until the licensing authority in the export destination confirms import and registration to the DVCSD.

In short only way to sell car to foreigner is against those recommendations - to hand him registration cert. You can't sell a car to foreigner for export any different way.

xabi

Rang Shannon, I need to photocopy log book and give original to buyer, enter buyers details on photocopy and send to Shannon. They are posting me a Declaration of Disposal which I send back to them which will cover me for any liability arising should buyer get fines etc.

Anyone know if the disposal form is available online?

R.O.R

CiniO wrote: »

In short only way to sell car to foreigner is against those recommendations - to hand him registration cert. You can't sell a car to foreigner for export any different way.

A Vehicle Registration Certificate was provided with a vehicle 1st registered before the 1st April 2004.

A Vehicle Licencing Certificate (issued since 1st April 2004) is not the same as a Vehicle Registration Certificate, so if someone has a VLC the text you posted from Shannon does not apply.

CiniO

R.O.R wrote: »

A Vehicle Registration Certificate was provided with a vehicle 1st registered before the 1st April 2004.

A Vehicle Licencing Certificate (issued since 1st April 2004) is not the same as a Vehicle Registration Certificate, so if someone has a VLC the text you posted from Shannon does not apply.

First time I hear that...
Up to my current knowledge "Vehicle registration Certificate" is a document we all have for our cars. Indeed there were some different ones issued before 2004, but I never seen one of them.
Generally Vehicle Registration Certificate is what most people call a logbook and looks like that:


Here's a link from RSA:

When a vehicle sale is made, the new owner should receive the vehicle’s registration papers. These papers have also undergone changes:

A vehicle first registered before April 2004 would have been issued a Vehicle Registration Certificate and a Vehicle Licensing Certificate.
A vehicle first registered after April 2004 now only receives a revised Vehicle Registration Certificate.

So I can't believe Shannon could have been relating to anything else than the above in text I quoted few posts ago.

CiniO

xabi wrote: »

Rang Shannon, I need to photocopy log book and give original to buyer, enter buyers details on photocopy and send to Shannon. They are posting me a Declaration of Disposal which I send back to them which will cover me for any liability arising should buyer get fines etc.

Anyone know if the disposal form is available online?

Funny and pathetic as usual.
Department of transport gives completely different (contradicting) info to different customers depending who you speak to...

Quotation I have above there, was from their general information email they send to everyone who enquires about anything over email with them.

I would be able interested in this disposal form, as I also sold a car to Polish lad.

GM228

R.O.R wrote: »

A Vehicle Registration Certificate was provided with a vehicle 1st registered before the 1st April 2004.

A Vehicle Licencing Certificate (issued since 1st April 2004) is not the same as a Vehicle Registration Certificate, so if someone has a VLC the text you posted from Shannon does not apply.

It's the other way around, VRCs replaced VLCs.

xabi

CiniO wrote: »

Funny and pathetic as usual.
Department of transport gives completely different (contradicting) info to different customers depending who you speak to...

Quotation I have above there, was from their general information email they send to everyone who enquires about anything over email with them.

I would be able interested in this disposal form, as I also sold a car to Polish lad.

The way she rhymed of the procedure tells me shes done it a few times.

CiniO

xabi wrote: »

The way she rhymed of the procedure tells me shes done it a few times.

Well I believe so.
Makes perfect sense what she said to you.

As opposite side quotation I put up earlier doesn't make sense at all.

But my point is that both come directly from them.

GM228

The current registered owner of the vehicle should be aware that their liability for the vehicle under the Road Traffic Acts continues in respect of the vehicle until the licensing authority in the export destination confirms import and registration to the DVCSD.

I'd love to see that tested in court. What a load of rubbish!

grogi

CiniO wrote: »

Funny and pathetic as usual.

Well - not surprising... Revenue cannot even have correct Tax Rates in their public documentation... (exp. http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/rtsoa.pdf)