Purchasers/their bank likely to have financial impact on us

jos_kel

Hi,
We were all geared up to move on Wed 13th July. Had removals company lined up.
Then there was a glitch on the purchaser's side so it's looking like closing date will be on Thu 21st July.
However removals company are now booked out until Thu 28th July.
We've looked at other alternatives but they are €400 more expensive.
I'm ringing our solicitor later but I feel the purchaser's should absorb some if not all of this.

Jos

The Bishop Basher

Why not just wait till the 28th..

Can't see why anyone else would be liable for your moving costs..

jos_kel

Swanner wrote: »

Why not just wait till the 28th..

Can't see why anyone else would be liable for your moving costs..

Yeah the vendors on our side won't be happy though.
Certainly we shouldn't pay €400 extra when we had our i's dotted and t's crossed.

MarkAnthony

You can try and negotiate with the other side, potentially using the nuclear option of saying you're not going ahead with the sale etc. but is it worth it over €400? The other side's solicitor will no doubt be advising their side that the possibility of that is nil.

Assuming you get the €400 off your purchasers how much will your vendor be looking for from you?

Buying houses in Ireland is a broken joke, it needs radical reform, until then we're all stuck with these stupid annoyances.

SB_Part2

I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this.

Angel2016

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this.

Me either these things happens when moving or involved in a sale if I was the person you were buying the house from I most definitely would not be paying your removal van costs.

There are plenty of companies that do removals around just shop around and try someone else.

jos_kel

Angel2016 wrote: »

Me either these things happens when moving or involved in a sale if I was the person you were buying the house from I most definitely would not be paying your removal van costs.

There are plenty of companies that do removals around just shop around and try someone else.

I was so diligent with this and then looks like we're being stung for €400 at short notice.
Not enough time to shop around.
I told solicitor we'll just wait until 28th.
He said he would be advising against that.
Are we not a client of his? I think he just wants to close to suit himself.
My manager who's English said Irish solicitors are generally inept and can't handle chains.
Let me hasten to add this was overheard by me not in relation to this specific case.

Angel2016

jos_kel wrote: »

I was so diligent with this and then looks like we're being stung for €400 at short notice.
Not enough time to shop around.
I told solicitor we'll just wait until 28th.
He said he would be advising against that.
Are we not a client of his? I think he just wants to close to suit himself.
My manager who's English said Irish solicitors are generally inept and can't handle chains.
Let me hasten to add this was overheard by me not in relation to this specific case.

I've dealt with plenty of solicitors I am in Dublin and have to say the ones I have used are great I am in the process of a sale of my apartment at present and my solicitor is very helpful and knowledgeable when it comes to chains.
I don't think you have any choice but to wait until the 28th unfortunately.

Ste.phen

I may have misread this, but if you're the people selling, why not move your stuff earlier to your new place?

bleary

There is a bank holiday next week and a lot of people would be on holidays do I would try to close on the 21St then get your movers on the 28th when it suits. I wouldn't mess with th closing date. I can see no benefit in doing so beyond being awkward for the sake of it

Senna

jos_kel wrote: »

a glitch on the purchaser's side

So you are selling this house, but you cant move out till the new buyer completes???

jos_kel wrote: »

Not enough time to shop around.

You have known for nearly a week (if not more) and that was not enough time to "shop around" for a new moving company?

Sounds like you wanted someone else to foot the bill and save you a tiny bit of effort.

jos_kel

Ste.phen wrote: »

I may have misread this, but if you're the people selling, why not move your stuff earlier to your new place?

Because vendor of new house is not releasing keys.

jos_kel

Angel2016 wrote: »

I've dealt with plenty of solicitors I am in Dublin and have to say the ones I have used are great I am in the process of a sale of my apartment at present and my solicitor is very helpful and knowledgeable when it comes to chains.
I don't think you have any choice but to wait until the 28th unfortunately.

Yeah but solicitor advises against it.
Just to give you an idea this same solicitor furnished me with a financial memo with basic errors and was 80k incorrect

jos_kel

Senna wrote: »

So you are selling this house, but you cant move out till the new buyer completes???



You have known for nearly a week (if not more) and that was not enough time to "shop around" for a new moving company?

Sounds like you wanted someone else to foot the bill and save you a tiny bit of effort.

Was meant to close on Friday. That's 2 working days. You make it sound like a full week.
Let's be clear, it is the purchaser's lack of preparedness that is impacting us but hey this is Ireland I suppose.
Penalise the organised

Senna

Chains completely fall part all the time in every country in the world, yours has been delayed by a week, but keep blaming the whole country if it makes you feel better.

jos_kel

Senna wrote: »

Chains completely fall part all the time in every country in the world, yours has been delayed by a week, but keep blaming the whole country if it makes you feel better.

You're absolutely right I should have been more specific.

jos_kel

Senna wrote: »

Chains completely fall part all the time in every country in the world, yours has been delayed by a week, but keep blaming the whole country if it makes you feel better.

Originally closing date was 13th July so we had something to work with and duly lined up removals company for that date.
Now as a result of issues on the purchaser's side the closing date is a moving target.
I've rang removals companies and they're all asking when is the closing date. One even said you will get a few days to sort it out when closing date is known.
However our solicitor (as in the person we're paying a fee for services) told me in no uncertain terms yesterday that when he has the funds he's closing date. He said moving is our problem.
Of course he has a point.
But common sense needs to prevail. We need time once we have a definite closing date and ideally not to be out of pocket as a result of other people's action.
The is nothing more uncommon than common sense, it seems

Butters1979

jos_kel wrote: »

I was so diligent with this and then looks like we're being stung for €400 at short notice.
Not enough time to shop around.
I told solicitor we'll just wait until 28th.
He said he would be advising against that.
Are we not a client of his? I think he just wants to close to suit himself.
My manager who's English said Irish solicitors are generally inept and can't handle chains.
Let me hasten to add this was overheard by me not in relation to this specific case.

So becaus of your vendors mistake, you want to push out the date to your buyers even further to save yourself a few quid?

There's lots of things that can cause delays when in a chain like this. Go the earliest date you can, or you risk further issues.
And no, the vendor owes you nothing for this. They are not responsible for your moving costs.

jos_kel

Butters1979 wrote: »

So becaus of your vendors mistake, you want to push out the date to your buyers even further to save yourself a few quid?

There's lots of things that can cause delays when in a chain like this. Go the earliest date you can, or you risk further issues.
And no, the vendor owes you nothing for this. They are not responsible for your moving costs.

Hmm originally when the closing date was fixed I lined up a removals company.
Now through no fault of our own the closing date is now a moving target.
Even a removal company I rang yesterday said you are generally give some time after closing to get organised and arrange for removals. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

jos_kel

jos_kel wrote: »

Hmm originally when the closing date was fixed I lined up a removals company.
Now through no fault of our own the closing date is now a moving target.
Even a removal company I rang yesterday said you are generally give some time after closing to get organised and arrange for removals. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Our worst fears have been realised. The very scenario we done our best to reason with the solicitor.
Yesterday as requested I paid money into his account.
Yesterday he advised he would transfer the funds into vendor solicitor account and close sale once money arrived into account.
As our solicitor had no interest in our removal arrangements, which I guess is his privelege, we organised a removal company for today.
The vendors solicitor was uncontactable after 4pm by phone so now we are in a hotel and have to pay for storage and get another removal and pay on the double.
I emailed our solicitor suggesting that if it turns out that the funds were in the vendors solicitors account by 4 or 5 today, then house was legally ours and they should be liable for extra expenses incurred.
As usual he's very blunt and said we should have used common sense and not moved. This despite our attempts to liaise with him to avoid this scenario and if the sale did go through we would have been blamed for not being ready to move.
Surely there is some legal comeback on this

SB_Part2

I don't think your solicitor or anyone else is liable at all. Nobody forced you to get the removal vans in or to put your stuff in storage. You shouldn't do any of that until you've got the keys in your hand.

jos_kel

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I don't think your solicitor or anyone else is liable at all. Nobody forced you to get the removal vans in or to put your stuff in storage. You shouldn't do any of that until you've got the keys in your hand.

So yesterday I done an interbank transfer at 9 and it hit my solicitor account at 4.
If it hit vendors solicitor account at 4 was house not legally ours. Silly me

SB_Part2

jos_kel wrote: »

So yesterday I done an interbank transfer at 9 and it hit my solicitor account at 4.
If it hit vendors solicitor account at 4 was house not legally ours. Silly me

Did you have the keys?

jos_kel

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Did you have the keys?

No. The key question I want advice on is ...... If the funds hit the vendors solicitor account at 4 or 5
A. Is the house legally hours?
B. Due to the vendor solicitor being uncontactable and not letting us know, would they be liable to expenses incurred by us.

Someone said I was blaming everyone else. Nonsense. I'm looking for guidance

SB_Part2

None of that really matters. If you didn't have the keys you shouldn't have started moving your belongings unless you were planning on breaking the lock.

You knew there was delays but yet you still went ahead and arranged for removals.

I think it's pretty obvious you're looking for someone to pay for your removals or reimburse you for them. It's not going to happen.

MarkAnthony

Some one is liable.

bleary

I presume you were keen to move in to avoid paying another months rent,
what you did was just daft, your solicitor thinks so , and I think anyone would agree with him
no they aren't liable, and you seem to be looking for people to agree with you rather than guidance.

April 73

I moved last year & was involved in a chain. We needed the funds from our sale to buy & our vendors needed the proceeds to buy their next house. There were three houses & four couples & four solicitors involved

I felt our solicitor was totally looking out for our interests all the way through. Reading through the OP's posts it doesn't sound like their solicitor was actually all that concerned about them or what happened on moving day.

I'm quite sure it was stressful for the OP, although I'm not sure what comeback there is. I reckon you need to try & get over the stress & the blame & move in & enjoy the new home. Don't mind all the people saying "tough".

jos_kel

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Some one is liable.

Who?

MarkAnthony

jos_kel wrote: »

Who?

You. :pac:

MarkAnthony

Joking aside you can try and go after the vendor if they did not meet the agreed closing date but I believe you'll have a very hard time of getting anywhere.

athtrasna

OP if you have an issue with the post please report it rather than retort on thread. Thanks

Mod

December2012

I understand that you're stressed and frustrated.

But it's not just about transferring funds. There are searches to be done and certified, and authorities must be given to release.

And the chain feeds you all. First buyer to first seller, then that seller turns into a buyer and buys from another seller, and repeat until you are reached in the chain

A three way closing has complications and a closing date isn't guaranteed.

jos_kel

December2012 wrote: »

I understand that you're stressed and frustrated.

But it's not just about transferring funds. There are searches to be done and certified, and authorities must be given to release.

And the chain feeds you all. First buyer to first seller, then that seller turns into a buyer and buys from another seller, and repeat until you are reached in the chain

A three way closing has complications and a closing date isn't guaranteed.

Thanks this is more like the advice I was expecting.
The previous stuff was like bar stool banter.
I've no problem taking the hit for this but just wanted an informed opinion and I thank you for that.

December2012

Hope you get sorted soon. You may be delayed for a few weeks, don't worry, you'll be living in your house for a long time!

jos_kel

December2012 wrote: »

Hope you get sorted soon. You may be delayed for a few weeks, don't worry, you'll be living in your house for a long time!

Another twist in this. We've subsequently found out that estate agent was given permission to release keys at 17:16.
Our solicitor's secretary told us before this it wasn't going to happen yesterday.
I was on my phone to removal company at this stage and estate agent left a message. Our solicitor was texting me from 5.10 to 5.30 but not once did he mention anything

MarkAnthony

Maybe the solicitor didn't know? It sounds like the EA and the vendor's solicitor were in communication and the EA then tried to phone you. The fact that you missed the message would be a further issue for you in recovery.

Senna

jos_kel wrote: »

Thanks this is more like the advice I was expecting.
The previous stuff was like bar stool banter.
I've no problem taking the hit for this but just wanted an informed opinion and I thank you for that.

So you wanted someone to tell you buying a house is a complicated process and problems can arise?
Did you not understand this, seen it is you who selling and buying a house?

jos_kel

Senna wrote: »

So you wanted someone to tell you buying a house is a complicated process and problems can arise?
Did you not understand this, seen it is you who selling and buying a house?

No I was fully aware of the complications. We done as much as We could from our side to mitigate these.
Prime example I let our solicitor know on Tuesday that this was likely to go to the wire, which it did, 17:16 to be exact.
Turns out solicitors both had each other's mobile number. Vendors solicitors office closed @ 17:30. Our solicitors office closed @17:00. I don't know but let's put the legalities to one side for the moment but surely there's a duty of care lacking there.

athtrasna

If news that the keys were released was sent to your solicitor at when said solicitor's office was closed then they wouldn't be expected to get that news until the next day. It is unreasonable to expect your solicitor to work beyond their office hours because you told them "it would go down to the wire". Their wire was 5pm after that they were on their own time.

jos_kel

athtrasna wrote: »

If news that the keys were released was sent to your solicitor at when said solicitor's office was closed then they wouldn't be expected to get that news until the next day. It is unreasonable to expect your solicitor to work beyond their office hours because you told them "it would go down to the wire". Their wire was 5pm after that they were on their own time.

Like plumber on the EBS ad said "5.00 I'm off on my holliers, Toremolinos it'll be tropic". But what about the clothes said the housewife. "Eh down there for dancing" in other words I'm alright Jack. Ah sure he'll be onto another client next anyway just like the plumber. There's such a thing as goodwill.

Dr.Rieux

jos_kel wrote: »

Like plumber on the EBS ad said "5.00 I'm off on my holliers, Toremolinos it'll be tropic". But what about the clothes said the housewife. "Eh down there for dancing" in other words I'm alright Jack. Ah sure he'll be onto another client next anyway just like the plumber. There's such a thing as goodwill.

When do you think they should have waited until? If it had run on until 6, or 7, should your solicitor have hung around? They weren't to know that it would be 15 minutes, it could have been hours

jos_kel

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

When do you think they should have waited until? If it had run on until 6, or 7, should your solicitor have hung around? They weren't to know that it would be 15 minutes, it could have been hours

Not at all. Vendors solicitors closed at 5.30. Our solicitor knew our situation.
Both solicitors had prior contact by mobile.
The only expectation was for our solicitor to be contacted by mobile until close of business on vendors side. Vendors solicitor was to highlight when funds became visible. He emailed at 17:16. I suspect funds were there earlier though. I done 2 interbank transfers to my solicitor previously and he had them by 4pm.
Our solicitor should have been highlighting the importance to the vendors solicitor, I think both solicitors were very laissez faire about this.
I believe funds were there a long time before 17:16.
Is there any avenue I can pursue to find out exact time funds were in vendors account.

athtrasna

There really is no point. It's a done deal now. You knew what time your solicitor worked until and any dealings after 5 would have to wait until the next day. It's not the solicitor's fault you jumped too soon.

jos_kel

athtrasna wrote: »

There really is no point. It's a done deal now. You knew what time your solicitor worked until and any dealings after 5 would have to wait until the next day. It's not the solicitor's fault you jumped too soon.

As I'm diligent and organised, I rang our solicitor on the 14th July after the original closing date of 13th July was delayed by both purchaser's of our house and some internal issues with our banks communication.
I explained to him the potential of this issue around moving occurring.
The closing date was a moving target at that stage which made it impossible to mitigate the risk of what transpired.
The solicitor was totally blunt and not understanding of our situation. He knew we were not to blamed for the waiting game on the closing date.
He said as soon as the funds come in I'm closing and moving is up to you.
I totally understand that the moving is up to us but if we deferred our moving arrangements we would have had purchaser's trying to move into our house and no booking available with a removal company.
We were damned if we did and damned if we didn't.
Surely the solicitor has some appreciation of these issues.
This is our third time moving and the previous moves were stress free with very personable solicitors. I don't know this has been a complete nightmare. What with inaccurate financial memos, taking time off work when it could have been done via phone, very inflexible.
I badly need one of those guns from Men In Black to wipe my memory of this appalling service.

MarkAnthony

jos_kel wrote: »

This is our third time moving and the previous moves were stress free with very personable solicitors.

Which does beg the question - why not use one of them?

jos_kel

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Which does beg the question - why not use one of them?

True. But still lots of other questions remain unanswered.

athtrasna

Mod note

I really don't see the point in continuing this thread any longer. If you want restitution you need legal advice, which can't be given on here. You have your house, enjoy it.